As in treating it like AK?
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As in treating it like AK?
Nope
Depending on the situation I am folding or 3betting AQo vs a raise when I'm in position. I hate calling with it. From the blinds I often muck it facing a good-sized raise even if the raiser is a little loose. With AQs I am only folding against a complete nit, and otherwise calling like 75%/reraising 25% ish
Nutsinho posted how I play AQ as well. 3bet/fold sometimes in position, rarely call. Fold in the blinds to a real raise from somebody that isn't a retard.
I never 3-bet AQo, but I'll raise with it or call a raise if the player has a moneybag next to his name. :D Learning how to fold it has saved me good money though...people don't fold AK on an A-high flop and I hate TP2ndK anyway.
AQs gets a call preflop unless I'm sure I'm up against AA or KK.
why does AQs suited get much more love? i didn't think the suited-ness added very much to it's value.
Extra outs never hurt...Quote:
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
obviously, but I didn't think the suited-ness made up enough equity to change folding to a 5bb pfr to calling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thee One
AQs is played much different than AQo is loose limit games. AQs has good multiway raised pot value, and AQo is garbage in these games. I think that's where that comes from. In a tight aggressive limit game they aren't that much different.
yes, i could def. see that in limit. so in NL, you think they run close together?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
My thinking is it's not always going to be AK vs AQ, sometimes villan has A9+, but in the event that it is, I have redraws to something other than 2-pair on the right flop and on the wrong flop I know not to get too heavily involved i.e. play a small pot.Quote:
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Secondly, I don't mind pushing at AK on an A high flop with 2 to the flush. With AQo, that's not going to happen so those times I hit my flush or take it down when villain doesn't want to play for stacks makes up for the pre-flop raises and small post-flop bets I called and mucked to.
So I guess I'm saying...implied odds.
AK and AQ are great hands, I usually play them.
i assume you generally like to play AQ for a 3bet then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
I said I like to play them. They're fun hands in that I think there are a lot of different ways to play them and they're in a lot of my ranges by design.Quote:
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
so do you not 3bet AK a majority of the time?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
WOw, this is like pulling teeth, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
lol it seems like he's avoiding the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by dpe8598
I fold or raise it. Only calling if OOP with multiple callers. (leak?)
I have found that I can get a lot of folds after a raiser makes it 4bb and i push it to 12bb. In position, AQ 3betting is working well.
lately i like to 3 bet AQ pf against those who raise >12% preflop:
opponent 28/17
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
7 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $15.65
UTG+1: $50
MP1: $54.75
CO: $49.25
Hero: $61.05
SB: $48.25
BB: $25
Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is Button with Q:diamond: A:heart:
UTG calls, 2 folds, CO raises to $2.25, Hero raises to $6, 3 folds, CO calls.
Flop: 8:club: T:diamond: 2:spade: ($13.25, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $11, CO folds.
Uncalled bets: $11 returned to Hero.
Results:
Final pot: $13.25
ill let you know how it turns out overall.
I think your range should be much wider against this opponent in this spot. I'd 3bet 88+ and hands as weak as KJs. If I was feeling frisky or tilty I'd 3bet with 9Ts.Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryToma
this thread stemmed from "ilikeaces' guide to beating 6max (and later adjusted for fr) the easy way". he said to 3bet AA-TT, AK/AQ, and i couldn't think of seeing too many hh's around here in the past of hero 3betting AQ PF.
Fnord is giving you the roundabout: "It Depends." (do.u.c.y.? :) )
It really depends on the situation. I'm no poker expert but at a certain point, reads >>> cards. Playing poker mechanically is -EV.
Is the initial raiser looser preflop? If so, I am more liable to reraise.
Are there many people already in the pot? Depending on the number and my estimation of them, I may raise to steal or fold.
What is my position? Has the initial raiser been abusing position with frequent raises from CO or BN?
etc etc etc... so, I would be hard-pressed to say that I always reraise AQ pre or never reraise AQ pre...
1. UTG+1 was not a strong player in my estimation. He got a chunk of his stack from a rivered OESD after all opp's money got in the pot. He was fairly loose preflop... and I tangled with him in an earlier hand which was played very strangely (minbet +$1 on the turn, then pushed when I checked river to him - I was pretty close to making a disgusting call for a stack with bottom pair).
Anyways...
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
Button ($98.50)
SB ($139)
Hero ($100)
UTG ($106.85)
UTG+1 ($225.85)
MP1 ($79.90)
MP2 ($12.90)
MP3 ($150.20)
CO ($98.50)
Preflop: Hero is BB with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ah.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qc.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $4, 6 folds, Hero raises to $12, UTG+1 calls $8.
Flop: ($24.50) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/td.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/4c.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ks.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $16, UTG+1 calls $16.
Turn: ($56.50) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/8d.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.
River: ($56.50) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ts.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $40, UTG+1 folds.
Final Pot: $96.50
2. don't remember the details of this one. Even though I hit the flop here, I'm cbetting about 99.999% of the time.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
UTG ($76.65)
UTG+1 ($91.70)
MP1 ($102)
MP2 ($32.30)
MP3 ($102.25)
Hero ($89.50)
Button ($104.60)
SB ($62.65)
BB ($57.60)
Preflop: Hero is CO with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ac.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qd.gif.
4 folds, MP3 raises to $5, Hero raises to $13, 3 folds, MP3 calls $8.
Flop: ($27.50) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ah.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/9s.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/2s.gif (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets $15, MP3 folds.
Final Pot: $42.50
3.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
MP2 ($100)
CO ($46.10)
Button ($56.45)
Hero ($135.85)
BB ($152.30)
UTG ($79)
MP1 ($54.60)
Preflop: Hero is SB with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qs.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ac.gif.
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $5, 2 folds, Hero raises to $12, 1 fold, UTG folds, MP2 calls $7.
Flop: ($26) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/9d.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qh.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/jd.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $15, MP2 folds.
Final Pot: $41
4. Position is always nice.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
MP1 ($107.05)
MP2 ($55.75)
CO ($76.15)
Button ($104.75)
SB ($111.40)
BB ($51.10)
UTG ($29.35)
Hero ($84.50)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qs.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ah.gif.
UTG raises to $4, Hero raises to $10, 6 folds, UTG calls $6.
Flop: ($21.50) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/jd.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/8h.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/2d.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $12, UTG folds.
Final Pot: $33.50
5. Soemtimes it doesn't always work out so well. Mp1 was running hot and had gained my respect.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
MP2 ($180.60)
Hero ($99)
CO ($55.30)
Button ($100)
SB ($52.75)
BB ($61.45)
UTG ($39)
UTG+1 ($19.60)
MP1 ($134.95)
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qh.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/as.gif.
UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, MP1 raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $12, 4 folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $8.
Flop: ($27.50) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/jd.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/4h.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ts.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $15, MP1 calls $15.
Turn: ($57.50) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/td.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks.
River: ($57.50) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/2c.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $14, Hero folds.
Final Pot: $71.50
6. Sometimes, it may save you money.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
UTG+1 ($99.50)
MP1 ($12)
Hero ($101.55)
MP3 ($102)
CO ($65.95)
Button ($166.30)
SB ($63)
BB ($136.75)
UTG ($32.90)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qh.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ac.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $3.5, 1 fold, Hero raises to $9, 5 folds, UTG+1 raises to $27, Hero folds.
Final Pot: $37.50
Nice hands blinky. I'm not sure I like the 1st and 2nd to last though. I feel like the flop stab, turn check, river bluff gets called down to much to make it profitable. I know I would have called you in those 2 hands w/ anything but a busted draw. Maybe I need to reevaluate this. Is this play profitable for you in general?
obviously, but i guarantee almost everyone would say 3bet AK almost always (as in "IN GENERAL"). what makes AQ so different?Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinky
1st hand shouldn't entirely be taken in isolation. I wouldn't say that this is a typical river line I would take. You're right as it probagly gets called
5th hand - what don't you like? I'm probably beat: turn card couldn't have helped me and I don't think I have any fold equity... thus I'll take my free card.
Keep in mind that I don't always reraise AQ. It really depends on the situation. If you increase your question to the range of hands and situations that I'm willing to reraise, I'd say reraising with a wider range than AA/KK/AK is definitely +ev for me.
I read 5th hand wrong, thought you made that last bet. Thought it was same line as 1st hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinky
For what it's worth, I think it's wrong to always 3-bet or call or even play AK/AQ. Make a read, mix it up a bit and tend to play it, IMHO. It's not a monster, it's just a good playable hand.
i fold it most times.
i 3 bet it when i have position and can isolate a true maniac...only.
for those that 3bet AK regularly but not AQ...what makes AQ so radically different from AK? is it just that you think you will lose a lot of $ to AK and maybe KK over time?
i believe that is the reason you will find. AK and QQ open up 2 more domination hands.
i, however, may not be the best one to comment, as i dont 3-bet AK very often, either.
I mostly 3 bet AQs in position and call AQo with the intention of raising a continuation bet 75% of the time. Out of position alot of it depends on stack sizes with AQo getting alot of folds and AQs getting a lot of calls with the intention of check raising continuation bets if I have overcards and/or 1 to my flush. K high flops I usually bet out on about 30% of the time and just check fold the rest. On A high flops i just fire out 3 small blocking type bets to try to see a cheap showdown and maybe get some value from KK. If i meet too much resistance I let it go.
3 bet AQ in position. (if its already been raised, evaluate opposition)
Call AQ out of position.
"Why does it make that much difference if its suited" ?
The answer is: Over a long run those small increases in starting odds are hugely important in overall profitability. I believe the suited gives you 3% better odds (?)
"Is AK really that much different than AQ" ?
Large pots: AK v QQ :O
AQ v QQ :(
AK v AQ :)
AQ v AK :(
AhKh v 99 flop Ad 9h 2h :O
AhKd v 99 flop Ad 9h 2h :(
fwiw, here are my thoughts...
just mix it up, and think more about why you're reraising then what hand you're reraising.
don't destack 100bbs+ with AQ TP hands without good reads.
AK is better because you will get called by worse hands a ton more often than with AQ.
Usually reraising AQ is more for fold equity and isolation.
Suited cards are better not only for the 1% or whatever extra pot equity, but because you can semi bluff more often, which is important if ur playing regulars or tighter opps.
Most hands I play in the games I play don't reach showdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
does this mean you 3 bet AQ/AK to isolate or take initiative. then bet like hell no matter the flop to force a fold? or simply that your limits are no longer "no fold em, hold em?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
i agree with the 3bet for iso, but the cbet into a J 6 3 rainbow gets called, i slow down. do you continue like you have AA?