Aces, shorties and ugly flop.

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09-15-2006, 04:45 PM
Blinky

Aces, shorties and ugly flop.

MP2 is fairly liberal preflop: highlights mainly include raising, and callling a reraise, with QJo in MP.

No read on UTG+1.

BB had a 2-buyin stack when I arrived at the table. No real strong read but he appears to go too far with 1-pair hands and has only modest regard for position.

What is most +EV (or at least, least -EV)?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($107.35)
CO ($100)
Button ($100)
SB ($101.65)
BB ($142.35)
UTG ($98.35)
UTG+1 ($20)
MP1 ($57.05)
MP2 ($48)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ah.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ad.gif. CO posts a blind of $1. UTG+1 posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, UTG+1 (poster) checks, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $4, Hero raises to $10, 3 folds, BB calls $9, UTG+1 calls $9, MP2 calls $6.

Flop: ($41.50) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/kd.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/jc.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qs.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets $10 (All-In), MP2 raises to $38, Hero ........?!?!
09-15-2006, 05:07 PM
BobbySalami

Wow, this is a really tough spot to be in, especially due to the fact that the BB still has to act...who is definitely not shortstacked. I think the only hands I could see you beating at this point are KT/JT/QT/AK....all the others in his range crush you.

It sucks folding to shortstacks, but I think i would have to do it here.
09-15-2006, 05:15 PM
Renton

raise more preflop (to around 14) the hand then plays much differently
09-15-2006, 05:38 PM
Fnord

It's fine. 1 pair figures to be either beat now or beat by the river. Just fold and consider it $10 well spent.
09-15-2006, 05:55 PM
mcatdog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

raise more preflop (to around 14) the hand then plays much differently

I don't think it's necessary to give the same pre-flop odds to short stacks that you'd give to a full stack. It's a terrible idea to let a good player with a full buy-in know that you have AA and give them implied odds to stack you, obviously. But short stacks play terribly and they're more than likely not folding top pair on any flop so you might as well suck them in pre-flop. I think this hand is perfectly fine.
09-15-2006, 06:04 PM
Fnord

$10 is fine because it usually buys out the button and builds the pot. With AA and position you figure to have the best of it post-flop, particularly if you know the other players play bad. Blowing them out of the pot is a worse mistake than cutting off "implied odds" from players who give too much post-flop action.
09-15-2006, 06:51 PM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcatdog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

raise more preflop (to around 14) the hand then plays much differently

I don't think it's necessary to give the same pre-flop odds to short stacks that you'd give to a full stack. It's a terrible idea to let a good player with a full buy-in know that you have AA and give them implied odds to stack you, obviously. But short stacks play terribly and they're more than likely not folding top pair on any flop so you might as well suck them in pre-flop. I think this hand is perfectly fine.

mcatdog, i don't know if you are seeing the bigger picture. He shouldn't raise pot to avoid giving implied odds to the shortie. He should raise pot to avoid having two or three deepstacks call behind him with proper implied odds (which is exactly what happened). I think almost any time you see a 4 way flop with AA you failed preflop in some manner (except for extreme circumstances where you raised a lot and there were just a lot of big pp's out there).
09-15-2006, 07:08 PM
mcatdog

For some reason I thought Hero was the button and didn't notice the two full stacks with position on him. That changes things, obviously. Still, I think there are two competing factors here. We don't want to give the full stacks implied odds to crack us, but we don't want to scare the short-buy donks away either. It's OK to make a small mistake against the full stacks if it induces the shorties to make a really terrible mistake -- and it making it $10 IS a small mistake at worst because if a guy's calling $10 preflop to win your $100 stack, if he's getting the best of you, it's not by very much.
09-15-2006, 07:10 PM
Fnord

AA multi-way is vastly under-rated.
09-15-2006, 07:12 PM
mcatdog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

AA multi-way is vastly under-rated.

True that. Some people talk like they'd rather have 87 suited than AA in a multi-way pot. When I have AA I pretty much want as much preflop action as I can get.
09-15-2006, 07:17 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcatdog

Some people talk like they'd rather have 87 suited than AA in a multi-way pot.

I'll take "Stupid shit people say in the Cardroom" for $200 Alex.
09-15-2006, 09:07 PM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcatdog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

AA multi-way is vastly under-rated.

True that. Some people talk like they'd rather have 87 suited than AA in a multi-way pot. When I have AA I pretty much want as much preflop action as I can get.

AA in a multiway pot is underrated, sure. But i think any player would rather have 2 players call his 4xbb AA raise in position than 5 players. Sure, we get more equity 5 ways, but we also have to make tons of weak folds because we are in a multiway pot out of position with what is usually just one pair.