$100NL 77 flops a set, gets c/r on turn.

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08-17-2006, 10:14 AM
dan

$100NL 77 flops a set, gets c/r on turn.

second orbit at table, but i have played around 1000 hands with wilma, she is tight passive, on the flop i was hoping to c/r, then when i get c/r on the turn i am not sure exactly what hand annez could have...i was thinking QJ, or KT, what do u think of this hand and how it was played?

Game #2221245653: Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1) - 2006/08/17 - 00:12:05 (ET)
Table "Pawtucket" Seat 2 is the button.
Seat 1: Annez_H ($89 in chips)
Seat 2: POTUS33 ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: takinstax ($174.50 in chips)
Seat 4: eductba ($20 in chips)
Seat 5: galak ($166.38 in chips)
Seat 6: Wilma ($98.75 in chips)
takinstax: posts small blind $0.50
eductba: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to takinstax [7h 7c]
galak: folds
Wilma: calls $1
Annez_H: raises to $4
POTUS33: folds
takinstax: calls $3.50
eductba: folds
Wilma: calls $3
----- FLOP ----- [7d Qc 9h]
takinstax: checks
Wilma: checks
Annez_H: checks
----- TURN ----- [7d Qc 9h][Jc]
takinstax: bets $9
Wilma: folds
Annez_H: raises to $25
takinstax: calls $16
----- RIVER ----- [7d Qc 9h Jc][6s]
takinstax: checks
Annez_H: bets $20
takinstax: calls $20
08-17-2006, 10:21 AM
dan

ugh...yes i know im retarded, i didnt get c/r...
08-17-2006, 10:25 AM
Waterdick

I like betting the flop here. 1/2 to 3/4 of the pot.
08-17-2006, 10:28 AM
Genitruc

looks fine but i bet the flop every time
08-17-2006, 10:30 AM
dan

most of the times id bet the flop, but this was one of the times where i wanted to do something different, i really was expecting the preflop raiser to bet, and if i c/r hes still gonna call me with AQ, TJ Q9, T8, maybe QJ and KQ.
08-17-2006, 04:21 PM
bair

checking the flop is fine, nh
08-17-2006, 04:33 PM
Rondavu

Bet the flop with a set on live boards into preflop raisers all day long. You want to build pots as quickly as possible. When you have a big hand, and fold equity isn't unreasonably high, it's time to put money in.

The turn in this case completes a gut shot for KT. This or a higher set is all that beats you. There are more hands than that you beat here (that are more likely) paying you off, so there's no need to slow down. Pay off, because you lose longterm value otherwise, and you have outs against KT.
08-17-2006, 05:09 PM
Miffed22001

stop checking monsters where you arent the preflop aggressor
08-17-2006, 05:10 PM
Pyroxene

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Bet the flop with a set on live boards into preflop raisers all day long. You want to build pots as quickly as possible. When you have a big hand, and fold equity isn't unreasonably high, it's time to put money in.

I feel that, in the last 6 months, this is the advice that has done the most to improve my BB/100. While the statistics and modeling of poker came easy to me, I just could not translate that into a good ring game return rate. After reading a lot of FTR posts, I began to see that I just sucked at building a pot when I had a great hand. The more money you can get in on the flop, the larger of a raise opponents will call on the turn and the bigger the value bet on the river.
08-17-2006, 05:51 PM
KrazyBluffer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyroxene

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Bet the flop with a set on live boards into preflop raisers all day long. You want to build pots as quickly as possible. When you have a big hand, and fold equity isn't unreasonably high, it's time to put money in.

I feel that, in the last 6 months, this is the advice that has done the most to improve my BB/100. While the statistics and modeling of poker came easy to me, I just could not translate that into a good ring game return rate. After reading a lot of FTR posts, I began to see that I just sucked at building a pot when I had a great hand. The more money you can get in on the flop, the larger of a raise opponents will call on the turn and the bigger the value bet on the river.

I have a few questions about betting into the PFRer.
I am a winning micro limit player, but I am always trying to improve.

1) How much should the bet be ??? Should this bet vary or should you always bet this amount??

2) What other hands would you bet into the PFRer with??? ( 2 pair, top pair with ace kicker, flush/straight, flush/straight draw, nuts, etc)

3) I was thinking of slow playing against a maniac. But if you bet you are likely to get raised or AI and that is what you want. So I guess i answered my own question here.

Thanks in advance for the answers.

:cool:
08-17-2006, 06:11 PM
gabe

i like leading into PFR's with anything that is a favorite over TPTK. whether its set, two pair, overs+flush draw, straight flush draw, etc.

but at the time, its never too wrong to go for a check raise sometimes.

as for the original hand, i think you played it fine up until the river. his small bet makes me think he doesnt have a higher set or a straight, so i would go allin after the $20.
08-17-2006, 10:20 PM
aislephive

If you think the PFR will bet, then c/r. I like to lead a lot as well but a check-raise is more effective in terms of getting money in the pot. Very opponent dependant.
08-17-2006, 11:05 PM
MikeJee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

stop checking monsters where you arent the preflop aggressor

Very well put.
08-17-2006, 11:52 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeJee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

stop checking monsters where you arent the preflop aggressor

Very well put.

not really...check raising is fine when you are playing against suckers
08-18-2006, 12:07 AM
dan

Quote:

stop checking monsters where you arent the preflop aggressor

ugh? its not like i do it every time...like i said, i decided to mix it up here, i really thought that the preflop raiser would have bet the flop, i was wrong.

I didnt raise the river here, i thought that there are just too many hands that beat me, his turn raise looks like he is slowplaying a big hand.
08-18-2006, 01:24 AM
aislephive

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeJee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

stop checking monsters where you arent the preflop aggressor

Very well put.

not really...check raising is fine when you are playing against suckers

Bingo.

Check-raising is great against bad opposition, much better than leading.
08-18-2006, 03:59 AM
dan

ok, well the guy had 99
08-18-2006, 07:40 AM
Robert

On this board and your relative position to the prf raiser I like more to lead the flop.
would a tight passive limp KT/QT UTG+1? Maybe, but I'm not sure. I think a hand like QJ for twopair is more likely. Anyway, I call his turn raiser because I'm probably WA/WB here.
Btw, I valuebet this river for at least ½ pot.
08-18-2006, 10:49 AM
Rondavu

Gabe, who are you check raising, and who are you leading into, and why?

I ask because it seems proper to check to an aggressive opponent (for the check raise opp), but it also seems proper to lead into this same opponent, inducing a raise, so that you may 3-bet as an option to protect against the board depending on number of opponents in.

Discuss?
08-18-2006, 11:09 AM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Gabe, who are you check raising, and who are you leading into, and why?

I ask because it seems proper to check to an aggressive opponent (for the check raise opp), but it also seems proper to lead into this same opponent, inducing a raise, so that you may 3-bet as an option to protect against the board depending on number of opponents in.

Discuss?

The amount of money behind matters a lot.

The more money that is behind the more I want to lead.
08-18-2006, 11:17 AM
r8ed

I like leading 1/2 pot sometimes too with a made hand (or a strong draw) It's almost the same as checking and their reaction will often tip their hand. An aggressive play will almost always reraise thinking your 1/2 pot is a weak attempt to get a free card. Then you can choose to just call and go into the turn with a bigger pot (or push if you think you can get them to call).

I think a check-raise into two opps tips your hand way too much - especially on a board with limited draw potential. This line of thinking applies to 100NL.
08-19-2006, 02:44 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Gabe, who are you check raising, and who are you leading into, and why?

I ask because it seems proper to check to an aggressive opponent (for the check raise opp), but it also seems proper to lead into this same opponent, inducing a raise, so that you may 3-bet as an option to protect against the board depending on number of opponents in.

Discuss?

this is pretty general and i think im going to write a couple paragraphs on it when i figure out a way to present it
08-19-2006, 10:05 PM
Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Gabe, who are you check raising, and who are you leading into, and why?

I ask because it seems proper to check to an aggressive opponent (for the check raise opp), but it also seems proper to lead into this same opponent, inducing a raise, so that you may 3-bet as an option to protect against the board depending on number of opponents in.

Discuss?

The amount of money behind matters a lot.

The more money that is behind the more I want to lead.

I guess i should have added, stop checking monsters when you have a big stack'