NLHE-Theory&Practice

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06-01-2006, 12:46 AM
Lukie

NLHE-Theory&Practice

Has anybody read this yet? To those that have, any comments?

I saw this little tidbit on 2p2, and I know it's only a small, undetailed description of part of the book, but I must say that I'm already dissapointed.

Quote:

Finished reading NLHE-THeory & Practice.

In their starting hand section, which came with a lot of disclaimers, Sklansky and Miller "recommend" usually limping (80%) but occasionally raising (20%) in early position in unopened pots with 0-gap suited connectors down to 54s and AQs-A2s.

In the mix of hands of hands they recommend in early position, you are open raising about 30% of the time and open limping ~70%. When you are raising, half the time you have AA-QQ or AK-AQ, and the other half you are varying your play by raising hands you usually limp, ie JJ-22, AJs-A2s or KQs-54s.

Thoughts about this strategy in unopened pots for 100xBB max buyin games online or deeper stack live games?

Thoughts generally about building drawing hands out of position?

on the plus side, maybe sklansky and miller can help soften up my 2/4 game that I've been running terribly at...
06-01-2006, 12:54 AM
Rockymv

Re: NLHE-Theory&Practice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

on the plus side, maybe sklansky and miller can help soften up my 2/4 game that I've been running terribly at...

yeah, no kidding. would you rather it be a good book????
06-01-2006, 12:56 AM
mcatdog

Ewwwwww.
06-01-2006, 01:07 AM
WhooFleuryScores

I haven't looked at it yet;but I'll let you know what I find.
06-01-2006, 03:36 AM
Krieg1984

Are you kidding me? Sklansky reccomends limping and sometimes raising with suited gappers in EP???

Yikes, somebody tell Ripptyde!

....jk
06-01-2006, 10:53 AM
gabe

Re: NLHE-Theory&Practice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

on the plus side, maybe sklansky and miller can help soften up my 2/4 game that I've been running terribly at...

theres alot more to playing poker than camping for sets, lukie
06-01-2006, 11:08 AM
WhooFleuryScores

Quote:

Sklansky reccomends limping and sometimes raising with suited gappers in EP???

It's prob moreso for deception pruposes then anything.
06-01-2006, 11:30 AM
samsonite2100

Is it possible this is more from a mathematical viewpoint than a practical one? Like, one of those game theory kind of deals that works out on paper but is unrealistic to put into practice?
06-01-2006, 01:12 PM
Galapogos

Haha as I read this I was dealt 57s under UTG. I figured why not and raised 4x, got two callers, flopped the nut straight against one guy who had QQ and another who hit his set. I think I may have just made a few buddy lists...
06-01-2006, 01:53 PM
ProfessorOfOuts

Re: NLHE-Theory&Practice

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

on the plus side, maybe sklansky and miller can help soften up my 2/4 game that I've been running terribly at...

theres alot more to playing poker than camping for sets, lukie

Totally. I think the idea of open limping and/or open raising in those ratios, from 2nd or 3rd seat has value. If your $2/$4 NL game is playing tight, you'll be able to narrow the range of hands they'd likely to be playing. The idea being that a bet has more value from early position than it does from late position. I fully agree with Sklansky's Gap Theory, as long as you're not playing with donkeys, it applies, and you'll thin the field more often than not. First of all, I'm a big believer in the fact that playing hands with decent value 3-4 handed (in a good game all an early position limp/raise should get) that are easy to get away from will make you more profitable. When you flop a monster you'll get payed off, as long as you're playing relatively tight in the other positions. You'll also get more action when you have a big premium hand because people will think you're playing rags (like flopping middle set with JJ or QQ in the hole). They are also easy to fold or call a preflop raise from a late position bettor if you're getting odds with extra callers or the blinds or not.

Gabe's absolutely right, if you camp on sets, straights, and flushes with Top 20 premium hands, and some low pairs in the right spots, you're probably not maximizing your profit.

Phew. First post guys. Glad to be on the board.
06-01-2006, 01:57 PM
ProfessorOfOuts

This is also why I recommend 3x or 3.5x standard raises as opposed to 4x, because you're saving yourself marginal bets, and maximizing your caller potential when you have AA.KK,QQ,AKs,JJ,AK
06-01-2006, 02:05 PM
Miffed22001

post-flop play time...
I dont like this recomendation, i think theyre are better ways. Saying that somewhere in between this and lukie woul d be where im looking
06-01-2006, 04:28 PM
Lukie

Re: NLHE-Theory&Practice

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

on the plus side, maybe sklansky and miller can help soften up my 2/4 game that I've been running terribly at...

theres alot more to playing poker than camping for sets, lukie

gabe, adress this for me:

Quote:

In their starting hand section, which came with a lot of disclaimers, Sklansky and Miller "recommend" usually limping (80%) but occasionally raising (20%) in early position in unopened pots with 0-gap suited connectors down to 54s and AQs-A2s.

That's just weak, loose, passive, soft play and you know it.

By the way, when is the last time you open-limped?
06-01-2006, 04:39 PM
bair

i pre-ordered this...it hasnt got here yet but im pretty pissed about what you posted
06-01-2006, 04:45 PM
Rondavu

Ugh. Cash game is about postflop. I open limp all kinds of hands and then call a raise with them OOP. I raise suited unsuited gappers one gappers from UTG. I basically do whatever the hell I feel like doing before the flop. Sometimes I spin my homemade decision wheel of action with my cat strapped to it.

As far as I'm concerned, the excerpt you presented is genius. It leads to fertile image, better postflop skills, and a lot of $$$. I seem to remember employing that exact style at Full Tilt last night, and found myself sitting on a 6x buy in stack within 3 hours. $300 at 50NL.

I actually raise anything within two gaps when it's folded down to me almost always. That's often Hijack at 6-max.

I'm pissed you posted it, because I don't want the secret out. Put it away man!
06-01-2006, 04:56 PM
relayer

I am about half way through my first read of this book, and I find it dense and VERY mathematics oriented. There are no "this is the way you play it" kind of sections. Instead, the approach is to anaylze in acute deatil the math behind each EV decsion that a player must make---a process that simply cannot happen in the heat of battle. It is very much like a cllege/grad school text book.
06-01-2006, 07:57 PM
gabe

Re: NLHE-Theory&Practice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Quote:

In their starting hand section, which came with a lot of disclaimers, Sklansky and Miller "recommend" usually limping (80%) but occasionally raising (20%) in early position in unopened pots with 0-gap suited connectors down to 54s and AQs-A2s.

That's just weak, loose, passive, soft play and you know it.

By the way, when is the last time you open-limped?

i would have to ask, what are the disclaimers since there are so many of them?

also, i dont play full ring so i dont open limp much
06-01-2006, 08:24 PM
Warpe

Re: NLHE-Theory&Practice

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorOfOuts

First post guys. Glad to be on the board.

Welcome to FTR Prof. Give us an intro in the commune when you get a chance.