3% PFR

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05-25-2006, 06:01 AM
flyingPenguin

3% PFR

If someone has a PFR% of 3, does that imply their raising range is only AA and KK? What about 5%?
05-25-2006, 06:25 AM
Pelion

according to pokerstove 3% is 99+ and AKs (or some other combination of that number of hands).

So no in short.
05-25-2006, 06:30 AM
Lukie

AA and KK combined make up slightly less then 1% of total card combinations. 12/1326 to be exact.

All pocket pairs are dealt 6 ways. All unpaired cards are dealt 16 ways (12 offsuit, 4 suited). There are a total of 1326 total combinations (52*51/divided by 2 since order doesn't matter). Hope that helps.
05-25-2006, 06:31 AM
flyingPenguin

OK thanks. I've run into two fools with 3%PFR who have minraised on the flop. I've reraised with KK and ended up being beaten by their AA both times.

I'll have to get this pokerstove thingy. Sounds useful.
05-25-2006, 06:32 AM
Lukie

yeah it's a nice little tool

www.pokerstove.com is the link I believe
05-25-2006, 06:36 AM
flyingPenguin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

All pocket pairs are dealt 6 ways. All unpaired cards are dealt 16 ways (12 offsuit, 4 suited). There are a total of 1326 total combinations (52*51/divided by 2 since order doesn't matter). Hope that helps.

The divide by 2 helps. Thanks.
05-25-2006, 08:45 AM
biondino

Sounds like AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ or something to me.
05-25-2006, 10:26 AM
jackvance

Damn that pokerstove is nice. I've been using this very limited calculator all this time. Thx.
05-25-2006, 05:54 PM
Xanadu

Something to keep in mind is that not all 3% pfr are the same. It is probably rarer at NL than limit (I play mostly limit), but I have seen a few people with very low pfr% who never raise premium hands. They think they are being clever and will raise junk like 9Ts. Just something to keep an eye on, because when one of these guys raises, you know they don't have the premium pocket pair.
05-25-2006, 08:10 PM
chardrian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

according to pokerstove 3% is 99+ and AKs (or some other combination of that number of hands).

So no in short.

A tighter 3% range is JJ+;AK (suited or offsuit).

But that doesn't mean that this is what this guy's range is.
05-25-2006, 09:26 PM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by chardrian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

according to pokerstove 3% is 99+ and AKs (or some other combination of that number of hands).

So no in short.

A tighter 3% range is JJ+;AK (suited or offsuit).

But that doesn't mean that this is what this guy's range is.

This is an excellent point.

A lot of ultraweaktightpassives limp AA/KK/AK for deception.
05-26-2006, 01:39 AM
vqc

if you have a VPIP of 50%
and a PFR of 50%%
doesnt that mean that you are raising 25% of hands?
becuase when u raise u VPIP...
05-26-2006, 02:57 AM
midas06

No, it means you raise every pot you enter
05-26-2006, 07:28 AM
vqc

Quote:

Originally Posted by midas06

No, it means you raise every pot you enter

okkk
05-26-2006, 10:45 AM
Xanadu

Quote:

Originally Posted by midas06

No, it means you raise every pot you enter

Except for checking the big blind or checking after posting.
05-26-2006, 11:07 AM
Jimmy Mac

Quote:

Originally Posted by vqc

if you have a VPIP of 50%
and a PFR of 50%%
doesnt that mean that you are raising 25% of hands?

No, it means you need to cut down on the 'roids.
05-26-2006, 12:14 PM
Muxy

I think the 3% PFR could be something like

AA
KK
AKs
AKo
QQ
JJ

That makes up for 3%
05-26-2006, 01:45 PM
jyms

the way i see it is there is 169 starting hands if you count them like poker tracker (13PP,78 suited, 78 not) which makes it 169x.03=5.07.5 hands that he raises AA, KK, QQ for sure, AKs or JJ,AK or TT or he just hates to raise and thinks it's some kind of play that is to be used infrequently. I'm pretty sure I've played guys that have never raised but don't have the stats to check.
05-26-2006, 01:53 PM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

the way i see it is there is 169 starting hands if you count them like poker tracker (13PP,78 suited, 78 not) which makes it 169x.03=5.07.5 hands that he raises AA, KK, QQ for sure, AKs or JJ,AK or TT or he just hates to raise and thinks it's some kind of play that is to be used infrequently. I'm pretty sure I've played guys that have never raised but don't have the stats to check.

That calculation doesn't work because unpaired cards are dealt in more ways than paired cards.
05-26-2006, 01:54 PM
chardrian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

the way i see it is there is 169 starting hands if you count them like poker tracker (13PP,78 suited, 78 not) which makes it 169x.03=5.07.5 hands that he raises AA, KK, QQ for sure, AKs or JJ,AK or TT or he just hates to raise and thinks it's some kind of play that is to be used infrequently. I'm pretty sure I've played guys that have never raised but don't have the stats to check.

The problem with your analysis is that it is less likely to get a pp or a suited hand than it is to get any of the 78 unsuited non-pairs. I.e. it is 1/221 to get a specific PP like AA, 1/331 to get a specific suited hand like AKs, but it is 1/110 to get a specific offusit hand like AKos.

Anyhoo - the easiest way to get ranges is simply to get pokerstove and punch in some hands.