Discipline exercise

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05-22-2006, 10:46 PM
donnybaker

Discipline exercise

I don't think it would be a stretch to say that discipline is as important as skill in playing poker. For me I think it's more important. I have a feel for the game and I am successful, but I have not won a great deal of money. Unfortunately, I have lost a lot as well. If I am honest with myself I see that the reason is a lack of discipline. It is not variance or bad luck or anything else. This site is packed with this same story, but I guess I'm the kind of guy that has to see it for himself.

Last night I donked off about eight buy-ins stopping only when I didn't have enough on the site to continue playing any real stakes (I won't say a few beers didn't have anything to do with this). Luckily I had withdrawn earlier, so I minimized my losses. I have done this before, but never to this magnitude.

Having a few drinks was part of the problem, but it was not the problem. I was putting myself in a position to lose, that was the real problem. I was making bad judgements. I was calling everything down and trying to bluff every idiot.

Anyway, here's the exercise:

I'm still well 'rolled for my stakes, but I'm pissed at myself. I have $200 left at party. I'm going to increase that to $2000 playing 6-Max NL. I'm going to 4-table, move up at 10 buy-ins for the next stake and down at 7 for the current stake. I'm going to focus on good decisions and quiting when I'm tired/tilting/at a losing table.

This is also going to force me to think about how the players at each level play and play the most profitable poker for that level, starting with idiots at $25.

I may go bust in the exercise, but it's not outside my br so I'll just figure something else out if that happens.

Wish me luck!
05-23-2006, 12:53 AM
midas06

gl sir
05-23-2006, 07:10 AM
PO$$E$$ED

discipline is the most important trait for a poker player to have
it is more important than raw skill
lack of discipline is why most people fail at poker

what it comes down to is, humans are inherently greedy
that greed is what motivates most people to play poker
it is also the reason why most people never succeed at poker
such is the paradox of poker
I will muse on this more in my "The Tao of Poker" thread later
05-23-2006, 10:41 AM
donnybaker

Quote:

Originally Posted by midas06

gl sir

ty

Quote:

Originally Posted by PO$$E$$ED

lack of discipline is why most people fail at poker

QFT
When I have to lay down a hand, it's extremely difficult. I like my hand and I feel that it's my pot. That kind of thinking is where the money comes from.

Anyway, played about an hour and a half last night. I didn't feel like I caught many cards, but ended plus about $30. I was vaguely disappointed until I checked pt and found that this was about 11ptbb/100. So maybe I was running hot, but I think these guys just plain suck (party $25NL 6-max). I was playing way too tight for 6-max (16/8/1.5), but I don't think anyone noticed. I'm going to loosen up start learning good 6-max poker.

Ex BR: $231
05-23-2006, 09:32 PM
jmontis

i don't think discipline is most people's problem, it's overestimating your own edge and also sitting in games where you have little to no edge.

Repeat that several hundred times and your results will be piss poor. Some people will sit and grind out the lowest of win rates while others select games carefully and have monster winrates.
05-24-2006, 09:20 AM
PO$$E$$ED

no, it's discipline
trust me I play for a living
05-24-2006, 05:02 PM
Roco415

Quote:

Originally Posted by PO$$E$$ED

no, it's discipline
trust me I play for a living

agree tenfold....i dk how many times i've went against a read just because i wasnt focused and didnt have discipline to fold a hand....completely agreed possessed
05-24-2006, 06:51 PM
Al4As

I cant possibly imagine how someone could say that lack of discipline is not the main problem of most losing poker players.
05-25-2006, 03:47 PM
donnybaker

Quick update.

Ex BR: $310.67
Stats: 1400 hands, +108.66, 20/10/1.7, 15ptbb/100, 4.2hrs

I'm not really analyzing the play I see, it's fairly standard/donkish. At this rate it will be about 8 hrs unitl 50NL 6-max. I'm playing too tight and trying to put moves on calling stations. Other than that it's fine so far.
05-25-2006, 04:06 PM
twosevoff

Quote:

Originally Posted by PO$$E$$ED

discipline is the most important trait for a poker player to have
it is more important than raw skill
lack of discipline is why most people fail at poker

what it comes down to is, humans are inherently greedy
that greed is what motivates most people to play poker
it is also the reason why most people never succeed at poker

Agreed 100%. Many players (including me) get impatient and want to win money right now, and this clouds their judgement and causes them to make poor decisions.
05-25-2006, 04:55 PM
elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by PO$$E$$ED

no, it's discipline
trust me I play for a living

As do I and for longer, and I agree with jmontis.
05-25-2006, 05:44 PM
samsonite2100

Don't you guys think it's all part of the same thing? Poor table selection and overestimating one's edge are specific examples of mentally undisciplined play.
05-25-2006, 09:19 PM
Pingviini

Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by PO$$E$$ED

no, it's discipline
trust me I play for a living

As do I and for longer, and I agree with jmontis.

As do I and its discipline to walk away from bad tables and find good ones. and good discipline with everything else related too (br management, not playing while drunk etc)
05-26-2006, 04:13 AM
donnybaker

yay made it to $500!
beating up on 50NL 6max next.
I'll post stats tomorrow.

Ex BR: $502.56
05-26-2006, 03:50 PM
elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingviini

Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by PO$$E$$ED

no, it's discipline
trust me I play for a living

As do I and for longer, and I agree with jmontis.

As do I and its discipline to walk away from bad tables and find good ones. and good discipline with everything else related too (br management, not playing while drunk etc)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not downplaying the importance of discipline in the Poker game. But, after a while it all becomes routine and you become comfortable. Playing while drunk doesnt take discipline to overcome, it takes a brain. BR management MAYBE for newbies but after you've been playing the game for a while you don't think about it. As for finding tables, the tables I play at at any level the average player could beat the game at IMO. I dont think discipline has THAT big a role in that either, as, the majority of 'professionals' that I have talked to don't even utilize this concept (especially ones that I've coached) and think its the best thing since sliced bread, that and table selection.

Discipline to play your best and put the required amount of time is what I think is important. But is it as important to staying in your bankroll, finding the right tables and seats and not playing drunk? Well, I guess thats a matter of opinion.
05-26-2006, 09:02 PM
donnybaker

Update: done with 25NL (unless I drop to $350)
Ex BR: $502.56
Stats: 3685 hands, $300.55 won, 25/12/1.37, 16ptbb/100, 10.79 hrs
(not a bad hourly rate for 25NL lol)

I ran real good at the end running into some opps who would play for stacks with gut-shots.
05-29-2006, 12:21 PM
donnybaker

Jeez, I got killed at 50NL. Sucks being min-rolled. I ran into a bunch of really aggressive players, I was surprised. Maybe I just had some really bad tables. I'm going to look at my play and determine if it was bad luck or bad play. And then it's back to 25NL. Ex BR: $263.26.
05-29-2006, 12:59 PM
Muxy

Freddy Deeb's 6 Rules.

#1: Don't play while under the influence.
#2: Don't play any other games while playing poker.
#3: Don't play mad, don't play tired.
#4: Don't play out of my Bankroll.
#5: Manage my losses, horrible days leave, if the cards arnt coming leave.
#6: Take my profits, if you feel you arn't playing your A game leave.
05-29-2006, 01:37 PM
elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muxy

#5: Manage my losses, horrible days leave, if the cards arnt coming leave.

i knew he was a tool.
06-07-2006, 07:29 PM
donnybaker

Ok, here's an update. Same as before, built up at 25NL 6-max only to get kicked in the nuts in 50NL.

Here's the stats since I started:
NL$25: 8983 hands, 24/12, +$489.86, 10.9ptbb/100
NL$50: 4721 hands, 23/11.7, -$580.08, -12.3ptbb/100
Netting me a grand total of -$90.22

I played some $11 SnGs when I was really frustrated and netted about $100. Meh. Essentially I am back where I started. I know this is a small sample size and 6-max is very high variance. I feel like I was playing very well and I have been analyzing my play. Anyway, I am going back to my A game, full ring. I learned a shitload from playing 6-max and I am sure my game will benefit from it. I will come back to 6-max, I'm not done with it yet, I'm just stubborn and I want to get this discipline exercise out of the way.

Ex BR: $220.29
06-08-2006, 11:09 AM
Muxy

Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muxy

#5: Manage my losses, horrible days leave, if the cards arnt coming leave.

i knew he was a tool.

you play limit you can win with like 72o unimproved.