How to practice?

Anyone have any suggestions for seriously practicing hold'em without risking real cash to begin with?

I tried play money games, but they don't seem realistic at all in that everyone (or atleast 50% of the table) always stays in all the way to the river showdown pretty much every hand.

I then tried a freeroll tournament at PokerChamps, which seemed about the same. Basically I was seeing people going from 1000-5000$ to zero in 3 hands. People going All-In every round got old fast.

Lately I've been spectating low to mid stakes NL Holdem tables at PartyPoker, which seems ok, but playing would be better.

Any ideas?

Play the lowest stakes, like $2NL or $5NL. I just threw myself into the water and hoped I could swim as I started $10NL.. it ended up working out even though it was really close at times, but you'll be expecting to go broke there, so the microlimits are probably better but you have to find a site that supports them.

Some sites offer sponsorship deals where they will give you $20 for free etc. to play on a certain site. Using these kinds of deals and playing at low limits is a great way to learn w/o investing your own money. If you PM me I can let you know some good sites for these deals.

Yeah I was almost thinking I should just start playing micros.

Would you say No-Limit or Limit is a better place to start? I know this site leans heavily towards NL, but it seems a lot more punishing (in theory anyway) to the new player than limit. Opinions?

Limit is so 2002. NL is where it's at now :D

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Originally Posted by Scrimmage

Yeah I was almost thinking I should just start playing micros.

Would you say No-Limit or Limit is a better place to start? I know this site leans heavily towards NL, but it seems a lot more punishing (in theory anyway) to the new player than limit. Opinions?

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Try both and decide what you like best. It's that simple.

easier to win money as a new player in NL because you can simply wait until you flop a huge hand and stack a bunch of newbies in the microstakes games. Limit is a game of repeated edges and you need to know when to put your money in and when to fold. You have to be alot better and knowing when people are strong. The micro limits are frustrating in limit because you cannot deny people the odds to draw out on you because the pots become so big and you can only bet so small. I would recommend 1c-2c nl and play ABC poker. DO NOT BLUFF

put $50 into a site with 1c/2c NL and work your way up ..

That way, you first learn ABC poker (as mentioned above, DONT BLUFF.. bet good hands, and play very few hands) ... Then as you build your bankroll you can move up in stakes....

This way your just risking $50 :)

Thats how I started (well close to it, I played at a site with 5c/10c NL, and after spending a total of about $60 I started making money and worked my way up to where I am now)

Edit: A couple other things, use a spreadsheet (or at LEAST a notebook) to keep track of your play... Write down every deposit and every withdraw. Write down how much you sit down at every table, and how much you stand up with... This way you know exactly how good or bad your doing.

Wouldnt playing low stakes pot limit also help keep his br going. That way he stands less chance to loose his stack on one hand. I havent played much pot limit but it seems like a safer way to play. Kinda a medium between limit and NL. I could be wrong though, I have no experience in limit and very little in pot limit. But the times I have played pot limit have been profitable for me.

Its very easy to lose your stack on 1 hand in pot limit.

The pot limit games ive seen certainly seem to be fishier than the NL games though even though it is technically a harder game so maybe it is the place to start.
I havnt seen any PL below $25 buyin though.

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Originally Posted by Pelion

Its very easy to lose your stack on 1 hand in pot limit.

The pot limit games ive seen certainly seem to be fishier than the NL games though even though it is technically a harder game so maybe it is the place to start.
I havnt seen any PL below $25 buyin though.

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I've only played a few 25 pot limit games and they were verrrryyy fishy! Luckly whenever I played my luck held :D I think it is because they fill with people who fancy a gamble but dont want their entire stack to be on the line at any one time!

But I agree with above best way to learn is at the micros, ignore play money games!

I think royalvegas give you free $10 to start playing

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Originally Posted by TLR

I think royalvegas give you free $10 to start playing

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Royal Vegas and Crazy Poker (both are on the same network) both give you a $10 start without any deposit.
I took both and played with them a while.

Their SNGs are $0.75+$0.25 at the lowest level; so you're kinda rolled for SNGs :)
Their microlimits are $10NL and above; which means you can get a feel for $10NL for free but chances are a couple of bad beats and you're out.

Another option is to get staked on Party (I got my cash from PartyStakers.com) but of course you've burned that first-deposit bonus bridge...

everest poker has free to enter S&G's where you win 5,3,2 cents for finishing top three. It's much more real poker than the free tables. These players are tight!! you can move up to 5cent 10 cent and 25 cent S&G's after that all for no deposit.

I'm down about $600 (probably actually less then that, but yeah) since I started playing poker. For me, in London, with a good job that isn't a lot to lose in the learning process. But for some, it's a lot. I think it depends how much you're willing to lose learning I guess.

Does Everest or Royal Vegas Poker call your house when you signup?

I'm not quite up there with Sirjobsalot, but I'm down 200 notes since records began. Ok, I could have spent the money on bits for the bike, or a wakeboard, but it kept me out of the pub during the week and so I don't see it as a serious loss.

I just need to start winning it back!

I played the microstakes last night for a couple hours at party poker last night. Was very sound advice that a previous poster gave to just go ahead and try the cash microlimits.

For me it was mainly a learning/practice experience; I wanted to try different starting hands from different positions as well calculating pot odds, number of outs, etc. It was a very good experience. I definitely think my game improved over the course of the 2-3 hours I played. I went from 5$ buy in up to about 8.75$, then I made a big mistake that cost me a big chunk and down to about 2.50$. I didn't feel too bad about it (other than the usual, oops what was I thinking!?) as it taught me the most important lesson of the night. I learned that I shouldn't be so reluctant to hold onto a pocket ace and decent kicker if the table is showing an ace and a couple other face cards (that don't match my kicker) as someone probably now has two-pair. I believe I read the same lesson on FTR, but having it actually happen to me really hammered it home.

Anyway, thought I'd let everyone interested in this thread know that real cash games are the way to go for actual practice. I would suggest reading FTR and a poker book or two first if you can though.

Just put enough money in to have about 20 buyins for the lowest stakes in your site and play tight, solid poker. As you beat the game, slowly move up. With each move up the competition will slowly but surely become tougher, you'll notice people generally playing less hands, raising more, calling less, not taking marginal handsd as far, and just generally playing tougher, smarter, and more agressively. Even if you never read a forum, book, and never talk poker with anyone, you will gain just a phenominal amount of knowledge and experience by doing this. That said, the combination of playing many hands, regularly posting hands, reading good poker material, and talking about hands with others really can't be beat.

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Originally Posted by Lukie

Just put enough money in to have about 20 buyins for the lowest stakes in your site and play tight, solid poker. As you beat the game, slowly move up. With each move up the competition will slowly but surely become tougher, you'll notice people generally playing less hands, raising more, calling less, not taking marginal handsd as far, and just generally playing tougher, smarter, and more agressively. Even if you never read a forum, book, and never talk poker with anyone, you will gain just a phenominal amount of knowledge and experience by doing this. That said, the combination of playing many hands, regularly posting hands, reading good poker material, and talking about hands with others really can't be beat.

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Great post!
you should make a copy of this-->we could use this post every week in here

also add searching the FTR forums(its amazing what you will learn)