I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
I'm pretty happy with the way this went. So I think it's probably the right hand to get feedback on because I'm probably not ready to see my own mistakes when I'm feeling chuffed.
Villain is passive; probably a bit loose.
My thought process was basically an interpretation of the bets as the following conversation:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
CO ($4.09)
Button ($3.28)
SB ($5.79)
BB ($5.61)
UTG ($3.27)
UTG+1 ($15.27)
MP1 =Villain ($8.72)
MP2 ($6.09)
Hero ($3.44)
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.02.
UTG calls $0.04, 1 fold, Villain) raises to $0.08, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.25, 4 folds, UTG folds, Villain raises to $0.42, Hero calls $0.17.
Villain: "I have a nice hand, it's so nice I went to all the trouble of clicking on the minbet button".
Hero: "Behold! I have both a nice hand and the ability to type my own numbers. Tremble in fear!"
Villain: "Shan't. I've just found the place for the typing-in-thing. So have at thee!"
Hero: "Okay, let's see how you like it after the flop."
Flop: ($0.94) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Villain bets $0.04, Hero calls $0.04.
Villain: "Oooh. Erm. I don't have an ace. Do you have an ace?"
Hero: "Who, me? Nah".
Turn: ($1.02) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $1, Villain raises to $2, Hero raises 0.98 (All-in), Villain calls $0.98.
Villain: "*snigger*, Oh geez mister, I HOPE YOU DON'T BET"
Hero: "Well, if you're sure you don't want to bet, here you go!"
Villain: "Aha, surprise! I was fooling. I do have a good hand!"
Hero: "Oooh what a shock. Well, I've got another dollar almost, want that too?"
Villain: "Yes! Yes! You feel into my trap... erm... twice."
River: ($5) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Final Pot: $5
Results in white below:
Villain has Qc Qd (two pair, queens and eights).
Hero has Kh As (two pair, aces and eights).
Outcome: Hero wins $5.
If villain had flipped over AA I'd have had to revise this script somewhat.
If it had been A7, I'd not be that surprised given some of what I see on these tables. (Example. I bet AQ at 6xBB and got called by J4sooted who then went on to call my flop bet because he hit a 4).
All that said, I can empathise with villain. I think the reason I could see what she was doing is because I'd play it almost the same way (only better raise pf and stronger c-bet).
What tips for us about playing these hands?
Oh as an addendum: Villain bought back in and I'm guessing was on a bit of tilt or was desperate for me to pay her back:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB ($4)
UTG ($6.52)
UTG+1 ($3.96)
MP1 ($3.55)
MP2 ($4.88)
MP3 ($18.13)
CO =Villain ($4.94)
Button ($6.64)
Hero ($6.74)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.02.
UTG calls $0.04, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.04, 1 fold, CO =Villain) calls $0.04, 1 fold, Hero (poster) raises to $0.23, 1 fold, UTG folds, MP2 folds, CO =#A500AF(Villain)/ calls $0.21.
Flop: ($0.62) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.3, Villain calls $0.30.
Turn: ($1.22) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1, Villain calls $1.
River: ($3.22) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $3, Villain calls $3.
Final Pot: $9.22
Results in white below:
Villain has Qh 6c (two pair, aces and sixes).
Hero has As Qd (three of a kind, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins $9.22.
Revenge is a dish best served cold. Not steaming.
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed)
Hand History Converter Tool from
FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
CO ($4.09)
Button ($3.28)
SB ($5.79)
BB ($5.61)
UTG ($3.27)
UTG+1 ($15.27)
MP1 =Villain ($8.72)
MP2 ($6.09)
Hero ($3.44)
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, A
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.02.
UTG calls $0.04,
1 fold,
Villain) raises to $0.08,
1 fold,
Hero raises to $0.25,
4 folds, UTG folds,
Villain raises to $0.42, Hero calls $0.17.
This seems fine.
He bet the minimum into a pot of almost a dollar, thats like about 1/20th the pot. There is a flush draw on the board, you need to raise this here closer to the size of a real bet, Id probably raise to $0.50.
This is fine as well.
Quote:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed)
Hand History Converter Tool from
FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB ($4)
UTG ($6.52)
UTG+1 ($3.96)
MP1 ($3.55)
MP2 ($4.88)
MP3 ($18.13)
CO =Villain ($4.94)
Button ($6.64)
Hero ($6.74)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Q
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.02.
UTG calls $0.04,
2 folds, MP2 calls $0.04,
1 fold, CO =Villain) calls $0.04,
1 fold,
Hero (poster) raises to $0.23,
1 fold, UTG folds, MP2 folds, CO =#A500AF(Villain)/ calls $0.21.
Fine
If you are going to Cbet, which I would here, then it should be stronger than that. Depending on villain this may be alright, but typically Id bet around $0.50 here
You got the two best cards for your hand here, and continued the aggression, good.
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
Thanks for the input Andy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-akb
He bet the minimum into a pot of almost a dollar, thats like about 1/20th the pot. There is a flush draw on the board, you need to raise this here closer to the size of a real bet, Id probably raise to $0.50.
Meh. I'd have bet the handsomer of my two buttocks that villain had a PP. So flush draw is reeeeealy unlikely.
But even in the statistically unlikely event that my one opponent has a flush draw; they're only 2:1 to hit it.
A big splash scares off the fish. I reckon.
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
Villain: "Oooh. Erm. I don't have an ace. Do you have an ace?"
I'm inclined to add, Villain: "I have a flush/straight draw and want to see a free card" but given the preflop action that's totally unlikely. A slowplay here seems like a solid way to extract value, although betting would be fine too.
Quote:
Villain: "Yes! Yes! You feel into my trap... erm... twice."
I don't understand why you are berating your opponent so much. He should have known you had the ace (or KK) from the preflop action so it's stupid.. but he wasn't setting any traps, he simply misread you and thought you didn't have the ace and were attempting a bluff.
Quote:
If villain had flipped over AA I'd have had to revise this script somewhat.
Very unlikely.. for one he'd have probably pushed preflop.
Quote:
If it had been A7, I'd not be that surprised
I would.. if he hits 2 pair on the flop, he won't be betting $0.04 methinks.
Quote:
Revenge is a dish best served cold. Not steaming.
Hm, what is there to say here? He tilted and stuck to his bottom pair.. ehm.. I mean, it's super obvious from your play you missed the flop and hit on the turn.. weak half-hearted c-bet, and then an ace shows up and suddenly you gain the confidence to almost bet the pot?
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
Meh. I'd have bet the handsomer of my two buttocks that villain had a PP. So flush draw is reeeeealy unlikely.
But even in the statistically unlikely event that my one opponent has a flush draw; they're only 2:1 to hit it.
A big splash scares off the fish. I reckon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
I'm inclined to add, Villain: "I have a flush/straight draw and want to see a free card" but given the preflop action that's totally unlikely. A slowplay here seems like a solid way to extract value, although betting would be fine too.
Lets remember what stakes these are, its $4nl. Even at these stakes, yes, a 3bet does limit somebody's range, but not to exclude suited cards. At $25nl you see less of it, but at $10nl I recall seeing players 3 bet with suited connecters all the time, hell, they didnt even have to be connected. Anyways, I dont think KQs, KJs, KTs, or QJs are out of villains range here and because of this I am raising that flop. A big splash may "scare off the fish," but no splash at all gives them the odds to draw out. Even if you arent worried about a flush draw, you should still be raising for value when somebody bets 1/20th the pot.
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-akb
Lets remember what stakes these are, its $4nl. Even at these stakes, yes, a 3bet does limit somebody's range, but not to exclude suited cards. At $25nl you see less of it, but at $10nl I recall seeing players 3 bet with suited connecters all the time, hell, they didnt even have to be connected.
I've never seen this at 10NL except maybe from a guy on a total tilt. Most fish simply never reraise you unless they get a boner from how great their hand is.
Quote:
Anyways, I dont think KQs, KJs, KTs, or QJs are out of villains range here and because of this I am raising that flop. A big splash may "scare off the fish," but no splash at all gives them the odds to draw out. Even if you arent worried about a flush draw, you should still be raising for value when somebody bets 1/20th the pot.
Not necessarily. A 1/20th pot bet is basically a check. This equivalent to check/check, so you're slowplaying your pretty obvious 'hit'. The reasoning is that in the unlikely case of a flush draw, there's still only 1/5 he's gonna actually hit - which can be a calculated risk you take (since he probably isn't even on the flush draw) when you slowplay. If he value bet the flop, Villain might have folded. Now he got a stack. Different strategies. This flop with this preflop action justifies a slowplay in my book.
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
Quote:
Villain: "Yes! Yes! You feel into my trap... erm... twice."
I don't understand why you are berating your opponent so much. He should have known you had the ace (or KK) from the preflop action so it's stupid.. but he wasn't setting any traps, he simply misread you and thought you didn't have the ace and were attempting a bluff.
Berating is fun. :)
No, but seriously it's not meant to be too harsh. As I say, I can see myself in that position.
Possibly Villain marked me down as bluffing. But I kinda suspect that final call was just as the realisation hit that there was a problem, but you'd have to be REALLY sure to fold this pot to a 0.98 raise.
I think I'd berate more if they'd folded. :)
Quote:
If it had been A7, I'd not be that surprised
I would.. if he hits 2 pair on the flop, he won't be betting $0.04 methinks.
I dunno. Oddly enough they got another QQ 15 minutes later and got a flop of QQJ and bet $0.04 :)
Quote:
Quote:
Revenge is a dish best served cold. Not steaming.
Hm, what is there to say here? He tilted and stuck to his bottom pair.. ehm.. I mean, it's super obvious from your play you missed the flop and hit on the turn.. weak half-hearted c-bet, and then an ace shows up and suddenly you gain the confidence to almost bet the pot?
It's only "super obvious" because you know what my hole cards are.
It may be a bad strategy but as long as I have only one opponent in a hand I'll often c-bet around 50% of the pot and then if they call I'll go up to a more pot-sized bet on the turn... basically whatever I think I can get them to call.
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
No, but seriously it's not meant to be too harsh. As I say, I can see myself in that position.
Possibly Villain marked me down as bluffing. But I kinda suspect that final call was just as the realisation hit that there was a problem, but you'd have to be REALLY sure to fold this pot to a 0.98 raise.
Hehe.. I agree whole-heartedly there. I've had many such moments myself too and I always call and always lose :P
Quote:
It's only "super obvious" because you know what my hole cards are.
Heh, you may think that but I've seen this betting pattern so often that I know what it means. If you didn't hit on the turn, you have either continued with a weaker bluff, or checked, am I right? It's not too uncommon in my games that I know what my opponents have because these betting patterns tip me off :)
And if I can already easily see these things, the higher stakes people probably will too.. I think if you move up you'd need to mask your hand better. Generally, it doesn't matter how you bet, if it's always the same then aware players will pick this up.. if you don't realize this it might be very frustrating when you always get caught with the worse hand against some people and you have no clue why.
Also, some betting patterns are really standard amongst the 10NL and 20NL crowd, so after a while you don't really need to observe a player for too long anymore, just 1-2 hands to justify your intuition is enough.
Quote:
It may be a bad strategy but as long as I have only one opponent in a hand I'll often c-bet around 50% of the pot and then if they call I'll go up to a more pot-sized bet on the turn... basically whatever I think I can get them to call.
You want them to call your c-bets? :O
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
I've never seen this at 10NL except maybe from a guy on a total tilt. Most fish simply never reraise you unless they get a boner from how great their hand is.
Youve never seen somebody 3bet with less than a pocketpair? I find that really hard to believe.
Quote:
Not necessarily. A 1/20th pot bet is basically a check. This equivalent to check/check, so you're slowplaying your pretty obvious 'hit'. The reasoning is that in the unlikely case of a flush draw, there's still only 1/5 he's gonna actually hit - which can be a calculated risk you take (since he probably isn't even on the flush draw) when you slowplay. If he value bet the flop, Villain might have folded. Now he got a stack. Different strategies. This flop with this preflop action justifies a slowplay in my book.
You would slowplay this flop? I cant imagine its correct to slowplay TPTK on a board with a flush draw. If checked to me, there is no way Im checking behind here.
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-akb
Youve never seen somebody 3bet with less than a pocketpair? I find that really hard to believe.
You said it was not uncommon on 10NL that they 3-bet with simple suited connectors or even any two suited cards. Haven't seen that at unibet no, except with the rare total retard/donk or total tilt, but for most players it's AA/KK/QQ/AK. The more crazy players can do this too with any pocket pair, and they tend to push all-in in that case.
Quote:
You would slowplay this flop? I cant imagine its correct to slowplay TPTK on a board with a flush draw. If checked to me, there is no way Im checking behind here.
I would probably yes. It's risk assessment. I think it's unlikely he has a flush draw, and on top of that unlikely he'll hit (1/6).. ofcourse he might, and then I'll pay him off, but to me this unlikely event is minor compared to the potential benefit of slowplaying my ace and getting more value later rather than advertising I have the ace for a bigger chance to get no more value (but he didn't get to chase a possible flush draw!).
I'm saying ofcourse this is what I'd do.. you do as you like ofcourse.
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
I'm pretty happy with the way this went. So I think it's probably the right hand to get feedback on because I'm probably not ready to see my own mistakes when I'm feeling chuffed.
Villain is passive; probably a bit loose.
My thought process was basically an interpretation of the bets as the following conversation:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed)
Hand History Converter Tool from
FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
CO ($4.09)
Button ($3.28)
SB ($5.79)
BB ($5.61)
UTG ($3.27)
UTG+1 ($15.27)
MP1 =Villain ($8.72)
MP2 ($6.09)
Hero ($3.44)
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, A
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.02.
UTG calls $0.04,
1 fold,
Villain) raises to $0.08,
1 fold,
Hero raises to $0.25,
4 folds, UTG folds,
Villain raises to $0.42, Hero calls $0.17.
Villain: "I have a nice hand, it's so nice I went to all the trouble of clicking on the minbet button".
Hero: "Behold! I have both a nice hand and the ability to type my own numbers. Tremble in fear!"
Villain: "Shan't. I've just found the place for the typing-in-thing. So have at thee!"
Hero: "Okay, let's see how you like it after the flop."
I hate talking online while playing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
He was putting a block bet on you maybe??? I would've raised it to like $0.65 to go to avoid flush draw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
Turn: ($1.02) 8
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Villain checks,
Hero bets $1,
Villain raises to $2,
Hero raises 0.98 (All-in), Villain calls $0.98.
Villain: "*snigger*, Oh geez mister, I HOPE YOU DON'T BET"
Hero: "Well, if you're sure you don't want to bet, here you go!"
Villain: "Aha, surprise! I was fooling. I do have a good hand!"
Hero: "Oooh what a shock. Well, I've got another dollar almost, want that too?"
Villain: "Yes! Yes! You feel into my trap... erm... twice."
Your intial bet was too much. Again 2/3 pot size bet of around $0.70 would be good enough. A trips would push here, but unlikely with a re-raise pre-flop from villian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
If he still called you here as I suggested, again I would put about 1/2 pot size bet here fearing only A8 or AA. Knowing the odds of him holding AA with the other 2 Aces known is highly unlikely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
[Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed)
Hand History Converter Tool from
FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB ($4)
UTG ($6.52)
UTG+1 ($3.96)
MP1 ($3.55)
MP2 ($4.88)
MP3 ($18.13)
CO =Villain ($4.94)
Button ($6.64)
Hero ($6.74)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Q
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.02.
UTG calls $0.04,
2 folds, MP2 calls $0.04,
1 fold, CO =Villain) calls $0.04,
1 fold,
Hero (poster) raises to $0.23,
1 fold, UTG folds, MP2 folds, CO =#A500AF(Villain)/ calls $0.21.
Flop: ($0.62) 6
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.30, Villain calls $0.30.
Up to this point everything looks good except should've checked on the flop. Don't be too aggressive. He called your pre-flop raise and your position doesn't warrant a defensive bet. If I was Villian and you checked to me, I would've put a 1/2 pot size bet into it to avoid a x8/xT/x5 from calling. You checks and he checks and all looks good. He bet over 1/3 pot size and its auto-fold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
OK, now you hit TPTK. His call on the flop showed me he hit something. All cards are rainbow. Does he have a Ace as well? 1/3 pot size bet here works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
Now you hit trips, time for a blocking bet since he called you all the way to the river. Pot is $3.22.... put in a bet of $0.75 (Act like your weak, but not too weak). He either calls (likely if passive), folds (unlikely at such a low bet), or reraises (what you hope for and likely if aggressive). You know you have the best hand and you want him to pay for it and not fold. Obviously he was a donk from the start but it appears you too (like I have found with myself) are being too aggressive post flop. If you're losing money overall, it's in your post flop aggression.
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
Sorry to say Stagemn, but I feel you are giving bad advice here, so I'd like to point out my problems with it. You're free to critique this ofcourse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagemn
He was putting a block bet on you maybe??? I would've raised it to like $0.65 to go to avoid flush draw.
This is not a blocking bet, and a blocking bet is only really applicable on the river when there are no more cards coming. And if you were to raise here, it would be to value bet, not to price out a flush draw.
The reason is as I mentionned above.. the chances of running into a flush here are <1%. To give you an idea, do you slowplay a set when your opponent has TP or overpair? Because you're giving him a 4% chance to hit an overset in that case. This is way more than the chance to a flush here.
Quote:
Your intial bet was too much. Again 2/3 pot size bet of around $0.70 would be good enough. A trips would push here, but unlikely with a re-raise pre-flop from villian.
I agree here, but have to make the side comment that in the line of his earlier slowplay, he is mainly "faking a bluff" here so $1 is good too.
Quote:
Up to this point everything looks good except should've checked on the flop. Don't be too aggressive. He called your pre-flop raise and your position doesn't warrant a defensive bet.
Don't understand this comment.. he's making a pretty standard c-bet. If you don't do this (occasionally), you are giving away your real hand strength way too easily.. plus you have fold equity from a c-bet.
Quote:
He bet over 1/3 pot size and its auto-fold.
You'll sure be bluffed out easily if you consistently play like this.
Quote:
OK, now you hit TPTK. His call on the flop showed me he hit something. All cards are rainbow. Does he have a Ace as well? 1/3 pot size bet here works.
Why would you ever bet 1/3 pot, aside from a blocking bet on the river? Basically a value bet means you'll bet as high as possible so as long as weaker hands will call. Since his opponent was likely on tilt, I'd say this play is more than waranted.
Quote:
Now you hit trips, time for a blocking bet since he called you all the way to the river. Pot is $3.22.... put in a bet of $0.75 (Act like your weak, but not too weak).
I really think you misunderstand what a blocking bet is. A blocking is when you don't know where you stand on the river.. not when you KNOW you're ahead lol.
What you are suggesting here is a slowplay, and not an advised one since villain has shown a tendency to not let go of their hand.
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagemn
I hate talking online while playing.
You are kidding right?
I mean. You're shaking my faith in humanity here, mate.
Quote:
He was putting a block bet on you maybe??? I would've raised it to like $0.65 to go to avoid flush draw.
A) As we've been saying here in this thread: most of us don't beleive the flush draw matters.
B) I think a raise would cause a fold. I may be wrong, but I thunked it, I think it and I wanted a bigger payoff.
Quote:
Up to this point everything looks good except should've checked on the flop. Don't be too aggressive.
Pfft. Check AQ?
I mean really?
Quote:
Now you hit trips, time for a blocking bet since he called you all the way to the river. Pot is $3.22.... put in a bet of $0.75
What? Why?
You say "You ahve the best hand and want him to pay for it" and yet you'd bet a measly $0.75?
I was fairly sure I'd get a call and so I bet the Villain's stack (bar a couple of cents).
Even without having any reads on the villain, there's good evidence that they don't believe in our ace. So we're probably going to get more for this.
As for post-flop aggression PT has me classified as "Passive" post-flop; so I'm trying to get MORE aggressive, not less (not that bet SIZE is what decides aggression).
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
[quote="jackvance"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
Quote:
Revenge is a dish best served cold. Not steaming.
Hm, what is there to say here? He tilted and stuck to his bottom pair.. ehm.. I mean, it's super obvious from your play you missed the flop and hit on the turn.. weak half-hearted c-bet, and then an ace shows up and suddenly you gain the confidence to almost bet the pot?
[quote="jackvance"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
...
Quote:
It's only "super obvious" because you know what my hole cards are.
Heh, you may think that but I've seen this betting pattern so often that I know what it means. If you didn't hit on the turn, you have either continued with a weaker bluff, or checked, am I right? It's not too uncommon in my games that I know what my opponents have because these betting patterns tip me off :)
...
OMG Jack you annoy the hell out of me. Do you know how much you're abusing the idea "knowing" what your opponent has? You're looking at this guys cards face up and maybe he played it like you would expect someone to. But there are a lot more levels of thinking in poker than you seem to think. You're not the only person who can figure things out. Even shitty poker players know that they don't want to be figured out so they'll do wierd shit all the time.
If you're gonna put so much trust in your ability to "know" what's going on you're gonna get owned. You need to start thing about probable ranges of cards, and you need to start having thought patterns like "Well with that play [bet/check whatever] I believe that X% of the time he has what he's represnting and y% of the time he's mixing things up/setting up a table image/trying to get paid off by overrepresenting a hand and trying to induce you to "call his bluff".
For the most part poker is not about KNOWING, And things being obvious. It's about things being probable. Unless of course the cards are face up.
To say that you know how 10NL and 20NL players play is to say that you're a narrow-minded poker player with a lot of downswings coming his way and an inability to move up to a level where most of the players are thinking in unique ways.
Re: I think I did well... what am I missing ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekillian
OMG Jack you annoy the hell out of me.
Not intentional I promise.
Quote:
To say that you know how 10NL and 20NL players play is to say that you're a narrow-minded poker player with a lot of downswings coming his way and an inability to move up to a level where most of the players are thinking in unique ways.
"Knowing what you have" ofcourse refers to "knowing how you value your hand". There are plenty of players at 10NL and 20NL who always value-bet on how they value their hand. It's not always accurate, but enough so for it to be profitable to take into consideration. These patterns are recurring.. and 6max is very read-dependant so I've developped a sensitivity to them.
I'm ofcourse often wrong too. Some players indeed play very random. That's annoying, but not a real problem. If I get my suspicions confirmed however, that makes playing against this player from then on very straight-forward. Occasionally he might trick me, ok, but a general "read" on his hand strength is very helpful.
I thought I'd mention this here, since I myself at one point didn't realize how much my betting patterns were tipping other people off until someone pointed it out to me (friendly guy in chat).
