J8s - Good or bad play?

This post to celebrate that I am now finished with my studies and can play more poker :dance: :D

First hand in a NL $20+2$ SnG, Blinds 20/10,
All 10 players with 1500$ in chips

PRE-FLOP
Hero (SB) posts $10 :Jd::8d:
BB posts $20
UTG calls $20
UTG+1 calls $20
5x folds
Button calls $20
Hero calls $10
BB checks.

FLOP
:2d::4d::9c:

Hero bets $80
BB folds
UTG raises to $160
UTG+1 folds
Button folds
Hero calls $80

TURN
:Js:

Hero bets $350
UTG calls $350

RIVER
:Qh:

Hero bets $300
UTG raises $970 and is all-in
Hero :?:

1) Do I call here?
2) What do you put UTG on?
3) Was my play in the hand good or bad?

I smell AA/KK... (others agree/disagree?)

I don't think AA/KK. But I don't like getting too involved this early with this hand. I also check/fold the river.

1) Do I call here?
2) What do you put UTG on?
3) Was my play in the hand good or bad?

1) No i fold
2) UTG has 22 or 44 (or AA-KK)
3) Nothing too bad until the river. if you werent willing to call an AI reraise there, I would just check (and fold). Leading the flop is fine with me...trying to do a blocking bet where you can see a cheap river is good also. I might have tried for 250-300 though.

I feel PF is fine, especially getting great odds.

On the flop, I'm not too confident in your hand, as its essentially a jack-high flush draw and one overcard (that may not even be good). Therefore, being first to act, I check and see what develops. If it is bet, I call if the odds are good.

The rest of the hand really depends on what happens on the flop.

The way you played it, I think the turn bet was too big, and I would check/call a reasonable river bet/fold to bigger bet on the river.

preflop is fine

postflop
dont build a big pot with a marginal hand.

Thanks guys :)

Here's my reasoning during the hand.

PRF :jd::8d:
1) Good odds to see a cheap flop so I call from SB

Flop :2d::4d::9c:
2) A flush draw for me and a flop that quite possibly didn't hit anyone. So I will bet my draw.

3) A miniraise from UTG and down to one opponent means my odds are great for another call. What does his raise mean? Very often with a set people tend to slowplay and just call a flop bet, but a miniraise with a set is also possible. On this level many people also make a weak raise when they have some kind of hand, but feel it's a bit to weak to bet more (=bad play). I decided it is very likely that he is holding 55-88 or A9 - T9. He might also be on a draw, but I think he would only have raised a draw if he also had a pair, such as A:diamond:9:diamond:. A higher pair or AK-AQ is not likely with no PRF raise.

Turn :js:
4) Basically I think the J is a very good card for me here. I now have hit my overcard to the flop and still have a draw to a flush. Given my reasoning on the flop I'm pretty sure I might now be ahead of a lower pair or a paired 9. J9 would be bad, but is less likely given that I hold a J. A set is still possible, but I think more often than not he doesn't have it after that weak raise. Still, I do not want him to river two pair or a set and I can't be sure he isn't drawing to a higher flush. Therefor I bet to end the hand putting 350 into the 420 pot.

5) He called and I am no suspecting that he might actually be on a draw or that if he holds a 9 it's A9. I also reason that he might now put me on a draw since I just called his miniraise and that he does not expect the J to have helped my hand.

River :qh:
6) The Q is an overcard that I don't fear that much. Q9 is possible and also Q:diamond:X:diamond:, but not very likely. After a little thinking I decide to trust my reasoning that I have the better hand and go all the way. I therefor bet 300 for value or to induce a bluff and I call his All in raise without much hesitation.

7) He shows :ad::9h: and I double up.

Any weakness in my reasoning? Was I too optimistic and just getting lucky?

Preflop is fine.

I don't even really mind the flop bet so much, and you had odds to call the min raise. This early though I am not looking to build the pot with hands like this until I hit them.

The turn I don't like the big bet. You have top pair weak kicker.. when you stay in preflop with a hand like J:diamond: 9:diamond: you want to hit a straight/flush/2 pair before you go building the pot. I check the turn.

As for the river you put out a value bet which again I don't like. You missed your flush, missed a 2 pair, and are now left with a lone top pair bad kicker. I would never bet here and if I am ever in the situation I beg for a showdown.

Regardless of the result of this hand, I would say the way it was played you would be beat more than you would win. Play suited connectors for what they're for this early on..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by givememyleg

Preflop is fine.

I don't even really mind the flop bet so much, and you had odds to call the min raise. This early though I am not looking to build the pot with hands like this until I hit them.

The turn I don't like the big bet. You have top pair weak kicker.. when you stay in preflop with a hand like J:diamond: 9:diamond: you want to hit a straight/flush/2 pair before you go building the pot. I check the turn.

As for the river you put out a value bet which again I don't like. You missed your flush, missed a 2 pair, and are now left with a lone top pair bad kicker. I would never bet here and if I am ever in the situation I beg for a showdown.

Regardless of the result of this hand, I would say the way it was played you would be beat more than you would win. Play suited connectors for what they're for this early on..

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Generally I aggree with you on connectors :)
But I do not really aggree that more often than not he will have me beat on a 2d 4d 9c Js board, that's my point here. Two pairs are not likely, while X9 or a medium pair is highly likely in my opinion. I have to see what cards are in play, not only that my holding is marginal. isn't the clue to decide if you have the better hand or not?

Still, I see that maybe I should have kept the pot smaller. Check the turn then and call a small bet and fold to a larger bet? How much would you check-call on the turn? A friend of mine would have bet even more on the turn and checked the river if the big turn bet was called.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Borax

Generally I aggree with you on connectors :)
But I do not really aggree that more often than not he will have me beat on a 2d 4d 9c Js board, that's my point here. Two pairs are not likely, while X9 or a medium pair is highly likely in my opinion. I have to see what cards are in play, not only that my holding is marginal. isn't the clue to decide if you have the better hand or not?

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I disagree. Later on, maybe. But early on fight your battles with your big guns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Borax

Still, I see that maybe I should have kept the pot smaller. Check the turn then and call a small bet and fold to a larger bet? How much would you check-call on the turn? A friend of mine would have bet even more on the turn and checked the river if the big turn bet was called.

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Basically, it is the first hand, you have no reads and a modest hand. Even if he doesn't have you beat, you can find a MUCH better spot than this to get all your chips in.

I would check call a small bet on the turn, enough to give me at least 4:1, mabe 3:1. You chould be drawing to just 9 flush cards... you could even be drawing to a J/8 only. I understand it isn't as likely but for me, it just isn't worth the risk.

ok, thanks.
I should say that usually I play very tight until blinds reach 100/50, but I go for it when I can see a cheap flop and I am pretty sure that I'm ahead, like in this hand. I'll remember your comments and pick my spots with care :)