Saying what your hand was

Printable View

04-26-2006, 01:39 AM
Lukie

Saying what your hand was

Say you make a great fold, or somebody else folds and you don't show in time (or you have the option to do so unchecked like myself).

How often are you telling the truth about your hand in these situations? be honest. I kind of want to get an idea of how often the other guy is BS'ing when they say what they had. From a personal standpoint, I can say that I'm usually lying, especially when I claim to be making a great laydown. Like if I raise an weak/tight/predictable EP limper with QQ, flop comes down AK5 and I get check/raised, and I'm quite confident that he has 55, I obviously claim to fold AK.

Also, 'good fold'. What's the jury on this? I tend to think that when somebody says this, they usually have a huge hand. But I really try to get into peoples' heads by saying this when I'm on air, just because I'm like that.

I'd say that when I say these things I'm BS'ing about 80% of the time. If I say something like, seriously, that drops to like 10% of the time, and if I use the (seriously) tag, I'm always telling the truth. Anyway....

honesty at the table? discuss.
04-26-2006, 01:49 AM
midas06

I never talk at the tables, save for a "nh sir" when I get sucked out on/outplayed
04-26-2006, 01:55 AM
badandy519

If I comment at all, I always claim to fold a good/ tough fold hand..... but it's usually like 63o going into the muck :wink:
04-26-2006, 03:38 AM
renegaderob1

I'm usually lying as well. Probably 80% of the time I'm lying
04-26-2006, 03:50 AM
strawman

I tend to respond with: maybe, possibly, not much, not enough, something, a piece, and when I really get a good breath in me "Doesn't matter, you don't have enough chips for me to justify a call."

I guess I don't lie at the table but I don't say much either.
04-26-2006, 10:33 AM
yorib

At $5NL, I'm rarely asked, but when I am, I tend to tell to the truth (like 80% / 20%). If someone says their hand, and it makes sense, I wouldn't lie about mine. (Though I might not tell.).

Lukie, in the above situation are you really lying? While you aren't saying the exact hand, you're in the same "tier" of hands, but just wanted to let your opponent know the exact hand you put him on, right?

At my stakes I've never seen "good fold" so I can't comment on that.
04-26-2006, 10:50 AM
Pelion

Re: Saying what your hand was

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

I'd say that when I say these things I'm BS'ing about 80% of the time.
04-26-2006, 10:56 AM
Galapogos

I've never really thought about it. It depends on the table I'm playing on really. Whether I want them to think I'm loose or tight and whether or not the hand I played represented that.

I find most of the time I'm lying is when someone lays down a hand to my set or something and they ask what I had I usually tell them something like top pair instead. Hoping they'll pay me off better down the line.
04-26-2006, 11:05 AM
naturaltan

Quote:

Originally Posted by midas06

I never talk at the tables, save for a "nh sir" when I get sucked out on/outplayed

me too
04-26-2006, 11:47 AM
gabe

i tell them what you think will make me money later, and usually its not the truth
04-26-2006, 12:12 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Lukie, in the above situation are you really lying? While you aren't saying the exact hand, you're in the same "tier" of hands, but just wanted to let your opponent know the exact hand you put him on, right?

I think there's a pretty big difference between QQ and AK on a KA5 flop :).
04-26-2006, 12:41 PM
yorib

In this case, given your reads, what is the difference? (Seriously). If you had AK on that board and were check raised, would you fold? If you read him as 55, you'd still be far behind. Though, I admit it's a lot easier to fold QQ on a board like that.

Also, and this is a "newbie" question, is the intention of advertising a "good laydown" generating more action later? I'd imagine (and may be quite incorrect) that a side effect would be that more people would bluff at you figuring you have shown a willingness to lay down a quality hand post flop.
04-26-2006, 02:51 PM
dev

I don't talk much online, and when I do it's about sports and stuff. I don't want them to be thinking poker, you know? Spout off a stat that isn't correct and watch the sports junkies go research it at espn.com instead of paying attention to the game.

RL games, however, I'm the table banter captain. If they're the type you usually get at the casino, ones that don't know what they're doing but try really hard to act like it, I make 'tough' laydowns quick and tell them it was trash and I was bluffing. More action, baby. If I'm running well, eventually they figure out what's going on and just go all weak-tight on me. That's when I'm your friendly nieghborhood card player telling them that it's ok to chase all draws becaus of implied odds and 23 has just as much chance of hitting the flop as kq does. Or I start talking sports or politics or something to get their minds off poker...

ok, now I'm headed to go work on my table banter skills...
04-26-2006, 03:29 PM
KingLizard

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegaderob1

I'm usually lying as well. Probably 80% of the time I'm lying

I am closer to 100% :twisted:
04-26-2006, 03:31 PM
dpe8598

I say whatever I think will piss them off the most or second guess the most.
04-26-2006, 03:51 PM
Setzy

Believe it or not, I never lie :)
04-26-2006, 03:54 PM
siknd

Quote:

I never talk at the tables, save for a "nh sir" when I get sucked out on/outplayed

this drives me crazy. i hate being called sir in a hand. so it works. im remembering a gauntlet game with you, midas...

Quote:

Like if I raise an weak/tight/predictable EP limper with QQ, flop comes down AK5 and I get check/raised, and I'm quite confident that he has 55, I obviously claim to fold AK.

i think its a mistake to advertise that you are tight/ capable of making big laydowns. it will encourage others to raise their bluffing frequency against you. unless you wnat tht.

the only reason i talk about hands is to get the other player to show their hands, for information.

'nice bluff'
'my ace is good'
'nice catch'

work the best. its shocking how often ppl fall for this, and it also can lead people to think that you have no understanding of the game, because your read was so 'wrong'.
04-26-2006, 03:58 PM
SuperDave9x19

i show hands when i feel that it is to my advantage.

. I show trash when i get folded to and have crap only if I am generally playing tight and i want people to think i am a nutjob.

. I show good cards when i had a good competitive hand with someone I like as a courtesy IF I feel it will be to my advantage.

. I show good cards when I am rocking on to emphasize how much i rock.

I RARELY tell a hand when it is not shown and when i do i am 95% full of crap.
04-26-2006, 04:10 PM
bdawg56kg

I usually never tell the truth, unless I had something so absurd that they wouldn't believe it anyway. :) I also never show.
04-26-2006, 04:14 PM
EricE

I never show or tell. I don’t say much of anything.
I also completely ignore any hands shown to me and any hands they “said” they have. This thread illustrates how good that move is/has been.
04-26-2006, 04:27 PM
Miffed22001

i always tell then i laid down air

Always.
04-26-2006, 06:31 PM
STIdrivr

Im one of those people that say good fold when I was bluffing sometimes. Ill pretty much never tell the truth unless I think it will benefit me in future hands. I will also say stuff to try to get people to show their hands like lying about a tough laydown or saying something like "nice bluff" or if Im pretty sure they have like the A on board I will say "I know you dont have the A but ill give it to ya" a few times they have showed me the A just so I know my read was good.
04-26-2006, 11:59 PM
jackvance

I usually either say nothing or be really friendly towards my opp's, no matter what. Maybe it's better to rail on them to get them frustrated and making mistakes, but I just can't make myself do that. My line of thinking is more that I want people to feel good so they'll play a relaxed, loose game and not care too much about the money.

I generally lie though when asked. Once, and this wasn't on purpose, I got great value from such a lie. I had a nice run of cards, but always got folds on my check/raises on the river. After this, a guy starts cursing about his fold, saying he should have called since it was such an obvious bluff! (he folded an understraight to my overstraight) The other guy replied he thought I really had it.

I said:
"sometimes I do, sometimes I don't"
"I alternate"

Then I got KK, raise preflop and the guy that thought I did have the overstraight musta been annoyed that I "apparantly did bluff".. he said in the chat "time to alternate again?"

This clued me off he thought I was bluffing, so I start raising harder than usual, as if I really wanted to bluff him out. He called me down to the river. Then at the river he reraises me.. so I 3-bet all-in and he says:

"damn I know you are bluffing but I have nothing!"
"grrr!"

And folds.

Gave me 3/4 of his stack with air b/c of my earlier lie.. wow :)
04-27-2006, 01:04 AM
Lukie

PokerStars Game #4756783545: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/04/27 - 00:59:44 (ET)
Table 'Azha IV' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: NyCzPiMP ($181.75 in chips)
Seat 2: themanohyeah ($491.30 in chips)
Seat 3: chicoflash ($388.50 in chips)
Seat 5: B-Didds ($233.70 in chips)
Seat 6: Lukieplaya ($304 in chips)
tad233 will be allowed to play after the button
B-Didds: posts small blind $1
Lukieplaya: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Lukieplaya [4d Jd]
NyCzPiMP: folds
themanohyeah: folds
chicoflash: folds
B-Didds: calls $1
Lukieplaya: checks
*** FLOP *** [6c 3d 7d]
B-Didds: bets $4
Lukieplaya: raises $8.55 to $12.55
B-Didds: calls $8.55
*** TURN *** [6c 3d 7d] [4c]
B-Didds: checks
Lukieplaya: checks
*** RIVER *** [6c 3d 7d 4c] [3h]
B-Didds: bets $219.15 and is all-in
Lukieplaya said, "folding 36 here"
Lukieplaya said, "i think u have an overfull"
Lukieplaya said, "nh"
Lukieplaya said, "****"
B-Didds said, "nf"
Lukieplaya said, "i cant be ahead here, nh"
Lukieplaya: folds
B-Didds collected $27.70 from pot
B-Didds: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $29.10 | Rake $1.40
Board [6c 3d 7d 4c 3h]
Seat 1: NyCzPiMP folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: themanohyeah folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: chicoflash (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: B-Didds (small blind) collected ($27.70)
Seat 6: Lukieplaya (big blind) folded on the River
04-27-2006, 01:08 AM
natdang

Lies. All the time.
04-27-2006, 01:22 AM
jackvance

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Lukieplaya said, "folding 36 here"
Lukieplaya said, "i think u have an overfull"
Lukieplaya said, "nh"
Lukieplaya said, "****"
B-Didds said, "nf"
Lukieplaya said, "i cant be ahead here, nh"
Lukieplaya: folds

Hahaha this is hilarious, you really look like a retard rofl :) You would totally have me fooled.

Great idea btw, I hadn't thought of this. But inducing bluffs from people is a great income.. so if they all think you're a super-tight/scared nimwit, this means people will become inclined to try to bluff you out with air hands, a nice extra income.

Btw I also like how you reraised with a double draw (flush draw+gut shot) in position, I like to do this too with certain better-than-average draws, like flush draw+pair (stopped doing this with straight draw+pair though, you run into too many problems there), flush draw + gutshot/2-edged straight draw.. not only do you get a free card, but if you hit, especially on the turn, you can keep betting and people will be disinclined to put you on a draw b/c draws don't tend to reraise - ie a bigger chance to get paid off if you hit your flush.

Btw would you also raise this if he had position on you? Or raise after he checked?
04-27-2006, 03:41 AM
bdawg56kg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

B-Didds: bets $219.15 and is all-in
Lukieplaya said, "folding 36 here"
Lukieplaya said, "i think u have an overfull"
Lukieplaya said, "nh"
Lukieplaya said, "****"
B-Didds said, "nf"
Lukieplaya said, "i cant be ahead here, nh"
Lukieplaya: folds

ROFL. At least make it more believable, like A5 or something. I'll bet his "nf" comment was bs too. :)
04-27-2006, 08:50 AM
saywhat2

Quote:

Originally Posted by midas06

I never talk at the tables, save for a "nh sir" when I get sucked out on/outplayed

I agree 100%. Let your cards do the talking. If you are worried about what cards somebody had when the hand is over than you are not playing your cards with confidence. Because you will be constantly second guessing your self. I don’t care what they had. Hands over move on.
04-27-2006, 09:09 AM
dalecooper

I think most of the time if a player tells you "good fold" and doesn't show, they have a draw or air. It's a bluff and they're reinforcing the idea that you should fold when they raise. I'm prone to this myself - it's hard not to do it when you pull one off. A lot of these same players will show their cards (and say nothing) if they really have a monster - they want to show off their good hands. What's the point of NOT showing a monster but implying you had one?

Usually when I talk at the table it's for thinking-out-loud purposes, and inducing players to show their hands when I know I'm going to fold. I'll sit and ruminate and say things like "I have a real hand here... I don't think I'm good though." And often I'm not lying either, it might be 50/50 whether I do have a real hand or not. This very frequently results in them showing their cards or telling me after the hand what they had.

--

On the subject of creating a weak/tight table image - I like to do this against specific players. Usually I'd like for players to defer to me and let me run things, but sometimes you run into aggro's who don't know when to take their foot off the gas. Against those guys, I advertise - repeatedly, if need be - that I can be bullied. And then when I get a monster, especially with position on them, I slowplay them into oblivion.

Example from a while ago - at a 50NL 6 max game, I had pocket sevens, called a raise, and then flopped quads - against a guy who had been raising a lot and betting me out of a lot of pots. And I'd been letting him, pretty much egging him on by talking about my "good laydowns." This hand I had position on him, so he kept betting and I kept calling. He bet the pot on the flop, bet the pot on the turn, and then shoved it all in on the river. I even slow-rolled him a little to rub it in (try to get him on tilt). He was a good sport though - laughed it off, and then had a good laugh with me about his cards, which were complete air. He couldn't believe he had donked off an entire buy-in bluffing into quads.
04-27-2006, 10:27 AM
Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by naturaltan

Quote:

Originally Posted by midas06

I never talk at the tables, save for a "nh sir" when I get sucked out on/outplayed

me too

me 3...with the addition of "n catch" when they make their hand on the river, which is just about as insulting as I ever get...unless they're insulting me, of course.
04-27-2006, 11:21 AM
Galapogos

When it comes to just plain chatting in the windows I play the whole spectrum of roles. New guy that has a basic grasp, table know-it-all, angry unlucky guy, yappy kid, guy thats here to make friends. I don't know why, I guess just to kill time and see how people react. I haven't found any of them to be profitable in any significant way. I think I just get bored.

The only way I've found to be profitably chatty is to find the actual angry unlucky guy or know-it-all guys and just tear them apart until the whole table's laughing at them. Tilts them pretty good. But then again who's to say they wouldn't bet that poorly without my contribution.
04-27-2006, 11:23 AM
Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

The only way I've found to be profitably chatty is to find the actual angry unlucky guy or know-it-all guys and just tear them apart until the whole table's laughing at them. Tilts them pretty good. But then again who's to say they wouldn't bet that poorly without my contribution.

You want to make friends with these guys. That way they don't leave the table.
04-27-2006, 11:34 AM
Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

The only way I've found to be profitably chatty is to find the actual angry unlucky guy or know-it-all guys and just tear them apart until the whole table's laughing at them. Tilts them pretty good. But then again who's to say they wouldn't bet that poorly without my contribution.

You want to make friends with these guys. That way they don't leave the table.

I never pick on the guys that are just dumb. But I find these guys that I mentioned are too competitive to just leave. I generally find they'll stick around just to show me they're the guy that should be doing the ball-busting.
04-27-2006, 11:53 AM
Miffed22001

i only tend to give a table captain stare at the guy who calls 4 bets cold preflop or a big reraise cold with JTs and then proceeds to hit a 4 outer after chasing/getting all in with obviously the worst hand.

Besides that i chat about strippers where i can... and my avatar normally :D
04-27-2006, 12:11 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

B-Didds: bets $219.15 and is all-in
Lukieplaya said, "folding 36 here"
Lukieplaya said, "i think u have an overfull"
Lukieplaya said, "nh"
Lukieplaya said, "****"
B-Didds said, "nf"
Lukieplaya said, "i cant be ahead here, nh"
Lukieplaya: folds

ROFL. At least make it more believable, like A5 or something. I'll bet his "nf" comment was bs too. :)

This guy was really tight and pretty solid from what I rememeber. Can't remember him playing any really big pots and to be honest, I doubt he makes this play without quads or a near-nut boat. I think he was better then 36.
04-27-2006, 08:17 PM
GatorJH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Besides that i chat about strippers where i can... and my avatar normally :D

Can I sit at your table?