$25NL - Bottom set facing aggression

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04-25-2006, 05:24 PM
andy-akb

$25NL - Bottom set facing aggression

Villain is 8.6/6.3/0

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($13.30)
BB ($31.12)
UTG ($3.91)
UTG+1 ($5.65)
Hero ($27.05)
MP1 ($38.83)
MP2 ($20.83)
MP3 ($18.62)
CO ($11.80)
Button ($17.02)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
2 folds, Hero calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, 5 folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.85) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks.

Turn: ($0.85) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (3 players)
BB bets $1.5, Hero raises to $5, MP1 folds, BB raises to $8.5, Hero calls $3.50.

River: ($17.85) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets $22, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $39.85

Flop is 742 with a flush draw, Im second to act and check. Here I probably should have bet, but the player after me was fairly LAGG so I was planning to check raise. The turn comes and villain, out of the BB, bets almost twice the pot, I dont have any idea what he could have here, but he hasnt been aggressive. I raise hoping to simply take the pot down here, and then he min 3-bets me, I call looking to fill up or get a cheap showdown. There were 3 cards to a straight on the board so I thought he might have hit, but I still dont understand his overbet of the pot. Anyways, river comes an Ace giving 4 cards to a straight and he pushes, I fold. I think I have to fold that river, but what about my other streets, how should I have played those?
04-25-2006, 05:32 PM
dev

I think generally everyone will agree with you that you should have bet the flop. I only bet that flop 50% or so, more likely to check with the lagg behind me.

The other thing is if you can put the bb on two pair or a good draw (pair and a str8 draw, pair and a flush draw, oe + flush draw, etc) then I push or fold the turn. The call of 3.50 on the turn invites the AI on the river, especially when the river is a scare card. With a push, you still have 10 outs to beat a made hand, and you're way ahead of any draw, even the really good ones.

Still, I flip a coin here, but I don't flat call at the end of the turn.
04-25-2006, 05:47 PM
andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by dev

I think generally everyone will agree with you that you should have bet the flop. I only bet that flop 50% or so, more likely to check with the lagg behind me.

Typically I play my sets fast, especially on flush draw boards, but I really expected a bet behind me, so I checked with the intention of check-raising.

Quote:

The other thing is if you can put the bb on two pair or a good draw (pair and a str8 draw, pair and a flush draw, oe + flush draw, etc) then I push or fold the turn. The call of 3.50 on the turn invites the AI on the river, especially when the river is a scare card. With a push, you still have 10 outs to beat a made hand, and you're way ahead of any draw, even the really good ones.

Still, I flip a coin here, but I don't flat call at the end of the turn.

This guy was very passive and I dont think I can 3bet him here with 3 cards to a straight, I called with the intentions of a cheap/free showdown, or trying to fill up. I dont think my opponent has a draw with his stats, I really have him on a made hand. I thought there was a chance of twopair, but even then thats the worst hand I could put him on. Was my logic here off?
04-25-2006, 05:49 PM
dev

Based on those reads, nh. You have every reason to believe you need a boat to win, and every reason to think he'll pay you off if you hit it.
04-25-2006, 06:47 PM
martindcx1e

If BB is so passive then why do you raise his turn overbet?
04-25-2006, 07:26 PM
andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

If BB is so passive then why do you raise his turn overbet?

Because he also could easily have an overpair or two pair here, I raised for value expecting to be ahead, with his reraise I called for a cheap/free showdown or to fill up.
04-25-2006, 07:32 PM
joshuadzl

If you fill up, are you calling the AI? If the final card was any broadway outside of an Ace, are you still folding?
04-25-2006, 07:35 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

If BB is so passive then why do you raise his turn overbet?

Because he also could easily have an overpair or two pair here, I raised for value expecting to be ahead, with his reraise I called for a cheap/free showdown or to fill up.

It just seems to me that if someone is passive and then all the sudden bets 2x the pot when a straight draw completes, they probably have a straight. If you want a cheap showdown then don't raise his overbet.
04-25-2006, 07:47 PM
andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuadzl

If you fill up, are you calling the AI? If the final card was any broadway outside of an Ace, are you still folding?

If I fill up I am calling the push, I figured it was most likely he had a straight or two pair, not a higher set although it would be possible. If the final card was another broadway card and he pushed I would have a very tough decision. A straight still beats me and I beat two pair, out of the blind I have no real reads on what his hand is at it was an unraised pot. I think calling or folding would be close if the river brought another broadway card, Id probably make a crying call, but I dont know if thats right.
04-25-2006, 07:53 PM
joshuadzl

After reviewing the preflop, it is definitely a harsh position. We have no idea what to put this player on period.

This is one of the reasons why I don't limp my low PP's anymore. I pump 'em or dump 'em. I think you made the right fold. Just don't let 'em catch up next time.
04-25-2006, 08:01 PM
Dislexsik

I learned from my mistakes slowplaying with a set.Especially with a flop like that...Just bet the flop and hope somebody on a draw calls and dont suck out on u.
04-25-2006, 09:43 PM
bigredhoss

i like betting flop (going for c/r on flop has some merit but i think just betting out here is better) and pushing to his turn 3bet
04-25-2006, 10:12 PM
andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

If BB is so passive then why do you raise his turn overbet?

Because he also could easily have an overpair or two pair here, I raised for value expecting to be ahead, with his reraise I called for a cheap/free showdown or to fill up.

It just seems to me that if someone is passive and then all the sudden bets 2x the pot when a straight draw completes, they probably have a straight. If you want a cheap showdown then don't raise his overbet.

At this point I thought he could have just as easily, if not more often, two pair which I am way ahead of so I was raising for value. He reraised which made me a little more worried but I dont think I can dump it becuase Ill takehis stack if I fill up, and if he checks I can check behind for a cheap sowdown where I could still be ahead.
04-26-2006, 04:48 AM
KY_Ace

I'd bet out on the flop, but other than that your play is fine. Your raise on the turn got you all the information you need and built the pot. Your opponent made the mistake of not pushing on the turn. You're actually in a pretty good spot, you know exactly what your opponent has and you have 10 outs. On the river 23% of the time you make $17.85, 77% of the time you lose nothing if he bets big, and a small amount if he bets small. He can't reraise with 2 pair or a set with a straight possible, he's got the straight on the turn for sure, his mini-reraise shoudn't fool anybody it only gives you a discount to suck out and make a full house.