hate KK

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03-23-2006, 01:17 PM
bspahn

hate KK

in 6 handed play do any of you ever fold KK preflop, how can you truly put someone on AA?

ive lost KK twice now to AA in 24 hours, but haven't won AA to KK as the opportunity never came.

can you get away from this:

Small Blind: brendan2 (0.25)
Big Blind: sinj (0.50)

brispahn was dealt: Kc - Kd

compu5 Fold
LosingGirl Fold
T_Peltomaa Raise (1.90)
brispahn Raise (4.50)
brendan2 Raise (10.00)
sinj Fold
T_Peltomaa Fold
brispahn Call (5.75)

Flop Jh - 4d - Tc

brendan2 Bet (14.00)
brispahn All-In (55.65)
brendan2 Call (41.65)

Turn Jh - 4d - Tc - 4s
River Jh - 4d - Tc - 4s - 8s

brendan2 shows: Ac - Ah (two pairs, aces and fours)
brispahn shows: Kc - Kd (two pairs, kings and fours)

brendan2 wins: EUR 131.20 (with two pairs, aces and fours)
03-23-2006, 01:36 PM
Pelion

Ahh now that might be a situation where you can. Ive never laid it down so far (and I dont think ill need to for some time yet) but if you have a situation where a tight player raises, You reraise with a tight image and a third tight player reraises over the top I think you are starting to get into set hunting territory (or fold with those stacks). Without a very strong read im still not laying down KK preflop though.
03-23-2006, 01:37 PM
bair

shoulda pushed preflop, and no I dont fold KK preflop period, let alone 6-handed, unless of course i have the read of all reads on the player. i've laid down KK twice in my life, once to my brother and once to my roommate, neither online.
03-23-2006, 01:47 PM
bspahn

you going to lay it down to his flop bet ? if you reraise you're pretty much committing yourself anyway that's why i pushed.
03-23-2006, 01:52 PM
Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by bair

shoulda pushed preflop

Result would've been the same, obv.

A big reraise preflop is that's out of the norm for a player is usually sure fire sign that he's holding rockets. If this reraise was bigger than usual - or if reraising period is out of his normal betting pattern - then alarm bells should go off. A good player won't be so obvious about it.

Here's an example:

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG+1 with J:diamond: Q:diamond:
UTG raises to $1, Hero calls $1, 4 folds, Button raises to $4.5

Usual raise was $2, reraise to $4...or minraise $1, reraise to $3, so I knew this guy had AA, because this re-raise was so out of the norm, and acted accordingly.
03-23-2006, 02:06 PM
NLHE lahooozaher

Quote:

in 6 handed play do any of you ever fold KK preflop, how can you truly put someone on AA?

If he isn't a complete idiot you could raise to $22 preflop and fold to a push. If he doesnt push well he's smart and gets my stack on most flops. I realize lots of people will say you're getting such odds you should call but that really isn't the case with the betting you're not going to be getting odds to call to hit a set and he has AA with that betting pattern everytime.
03-23-2006, 02:30 PM
johnny_fish

If you reraise to 22 and he pushes, you're getting 2.6:1 on your call. If there's a 15% chance he doesn't push with AA, that call is +EV. So reraising to 22 is essentially a push.
03-23-2006, 02:39 PM
NLHE lahooozaher

Quote:

how can you truly put someone on AA?

I wanted to expand a bit more on what I quoted earlier which was the above. The answer is with deeper stacks.

Quote:

If there's a 15% chance he doesn't push with AA

5 raises? It's AA but I would have to have a read that he isnt a total idiot and he does understand hand rankings. Against most players it's a fold.
03-23-2006, 02:48 PM
Warpe

Quote:

how can you truly put someone on AA?

All the info you need is right here:

Quote:

Small Blind: brendan2 (0.25)
Big Blind: sinj (0.50)

brispahn was dealt: Kc - Kd

compu5 Fold
LosingGirl Fold
T_Peltomaa Raise (1.90)
brispahn Raise (4.50)
brendan2 Raise (10.00)

Most of the time, 20x BB is AA.
03-23-2006, 03:51 PM
bspahn

so all of you fold KK once he's reraised to $10? Or would you call and hope for set? This is my main question, who here lays down KK preflop?
03-23-2006, 03:55 PM
Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by bspahn

so all of you fold KK once he's reraised to $10? Or would you call and hope for set? This is my main question, who here lays down KK preflop?

Nobody's folding pre-flop in this case, I imagine, although you should be able to in the right circumstances, but as Pelion says now you're set hunting.
03-23-2006, 04:02 PM
bspahn

so you'd fold to the $14 flop bet then. ie without hitting set
03-23-2006, 04:32 PM
Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by bspahn

so you'd fold to the $14 flop bet then. ie without hitting set

Hah! It's always easy to be a fly on the wall when you're not in the hand (and you know the results)...

If I'm SURE he's got AA...but I'd love to destack him...I'm probably calling and then check/folding to a big bet if I miss on the turn...

If I WASN'T absolutely sure, then I'm getting destacked just like everybody else.
03-23-2006, 05:58 PM
bspahn

did i mention i hate KK lately??
--------

no good read on this person. it's a strong enough bet that only a set or JQ would raise.

brispahn was dealt: Kc - Kd

brispahn Raise (2.00)
Thehell Fold
Berg_82 Fold
repep52 Call (2.00)
KMcKormick Fold
Gucci_Girl Fold

Flop 5h - 2d - Jd

brispahn Bet (4.25)
repep52 Call (4.25)

Turn 5h - 2d - Jd - Qh

brispahn Bet (12.00)
repep52 Raise (24.00)
brispahn Fold
repep52 Payback (12.00)

repep52 didn't show hand

repep52 wins: EUR 35.40
03-23-2006, 06:39 PM
NLHE lahooozaher

I think that's a good fold bspahn he likely has a set/JQ/Qxdd/9Tdd. A turn raise/bluff just isn't that common at the $50 to be able to call this.
03-23-2006, 06:49 PM
bspahn

why would you call me spawn?
03-23-2006, 06:53 PM
NLHE lahooozaher

spawn spahn, same thing. My bad, I'll edit it.
03-23-2006, 06:56 PM
bspahn

used to be an alias in high school, thought for some odd reason you knew me.