TPGK beat here?

Just started here. No real reads.

***** Hand History for Game 3708303246 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, March 10, 13:11:52 ET 2006
Table Lofty Goal (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: REAL_PLUCKY ( $11.14 )
Seat 2: commish2221 ( $43.16 )
Seat 3: SSpade ( $29.59 )
Seat 4: ACE2KEC ( $24.65 )
Seat 8: silverrod22 ( $24.40 )
Seat 10: duracel111 ( $21.55 )
Seat 6: VILLAIN ( $23.90 )
Seat 7: yair01 ( $25.60 )
Seat 9: marquesman ( $21.65 )
Seat 5: HERO ( $26.40 )
marquesman posts small blind [$0.10].
duracel111 posts big blind [$0.25].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO :Qs: :Kd:
commish2221 folds.
SSpade folds.
ACE2KEC folds.
HERO calls [$0.25].
VILLAIN calls [$0.25].
yair01 calls [$0.25].
silverrod22 folds.
marquesman calls [$0.15].
duracel111 checks.

** Dealing Flop ** :3c: :Qc: :4c:
marquesman checks.
duracel111 checks.
HERO bets [$1].
VILLAIN calls [$1].
yair01 folds.
marquesman folds.
duracel111 folds.

** Dealing Turn ** :4s:
HERO bets [$1].
VILLAIN calls [$1].

** Dealing River ** :8s:
HERO checks.
VILLAIN bets [$5].
?????????????

I call in a heartbeat. He probably has (at best) QJ with the Jc.
I would have bet $2 or so on the river as a value/blocking bet. Then if he raises me I could think about folding. As played though, I don't see how he has a flush, 4x or bigger queen here.

You did this to yourself.

weak turn bet and then river check makes it an easy bet. Id bet the turn a little harder and block the river decently. If opponent raises that then just throw it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fnord

You did this to yourself.

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Yes, but do I call? (Assuming I'm HERO)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fnord

You did this to yourself.

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Starting here:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeFou

HERO calls [$0.25].

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...and then on the turn and river.

Call for two reasons:
1. So that now you have a read.
2. So you remember to raise KQ preflop in MP (especially when folded to) and bet your hand accordingly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeFou

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fnord

You did this to yourself.

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Yes, but do I call? (Assuming I'm HERO)

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Without reads, I don't think it matters much. Sometimes you're good here, sometimes you're not.

Okay, how about the other side of the coin now?
(Sorry to analyze these seemingly-unimportant hands to death, but I'm trying to get inside opponents' heads a bit, esp. when I'm bluffing.)

***** Hand History for Game 3708303246 *****
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Fri Mar 10 13:11:06 EST 2006
Table Lofty Goal (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: REAL_PLUCKY ( $11.14)
Seat 2: commish2221 ( $43.16)
Seat 3: SSpade ( $29.59)
Seat 4: ACE2KEC ( $24.65)
Seat 5: Xibalban ( $26.40)
Seat 6: NuWere ( $23.90)
Seat 7: yair01 ( $25.60)
Seat 8: silverrod22 ( $24.40)
Seat 9: marquesman ( $21.65)
Seat 10: duracel111 ( $21.55)
marquesman posts small blind (0.10)
duracel111 posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to NuWere :Kc: :Jd:
commish2221 folds.
SSpade folds.
ACE2KEC folds.
Xibalban calls (0.25)
NuWere calls (0.25)
yair01 calls (0.25)
silverrod22 folds.
marquesman calls (0.15)
duracel111 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : :3c: :Qc: :4c:
marquesman checks.
duracel111 checks.
Xibalban bets (1)
NuWere calls (1)
yair01 folds.
marquesman folds.
duracel111 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : :4s:
Xibalban bets (1)
NuWere calls (1)
** Dealing River ** : :8s:
Xibalban checks.

Wow, i bet the river definately... probably $5, haha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Wow, i bet the river definately... probably $5, haha

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okay, i know y're making fun of me a bit but doesn't this LOOK like a slowplay? Not even of a monster but of something better than TPMK?

$5 too much?

i call

i dont think people at 25NL are putting too much thought into what their opponents have, mostly just careing about what their hand is. It's propbably smarter not to try to get tricky against them for the most part.

hand 1: Raise it up preflop. I don't hate a fold preflop, but I hate the limp. Playing a multi-way limped pot here with poor position just sucks, especially on this flop. As played, flop is fine. Turn, ugh, any reads on villain? Think he just calls the flop with the bare :ac:? First impression was to make it $3 straight and dump it to any resistance. $1 just doesn't accomplish anything on this turn. I think this is really read dependant here how you continue. Some players are so weak I'd be confident in just check/folding knowing I'm usually beat on this turn. Against others I'd pot it knowing that I'm usually ahead here. Agression on earlier streets tends to make life on later streets much clearer and easier to play, at least in my experience.

hand 2: I'd just muck this baby preflop. Fail that, I'd raise it up buying the button, with the intention of playing my position just as much as my cards. KJo just sucks....

Postflop.. again, any reads on villain here? Does he like playing ace-rag unsuited like many players at the lower stakes do? This spot sucks because you are squeezed between the post-flop agressor and the rest of the field. And your flush has absolutely no implied odds if you hit. And it's not drawing to the nuts either, and there are a LOT of combos with Ac that people can be drawing to. Just fold here. Fail that, raise as a semi-bluff, but I think a fold is the best play. As played turn is fine, and river is entirely read dependant.

edit: hand 1 on river, my first impression was call, but i dunno. You put yourself into an extremely tough spot and I think it's pretty close.

Thanks, Lukie. This thread went all pear-shaped, but do you realize 1 and 2 are the same hand? I'm trying to figure out how people know that I'm bluffing; because lately it seems they always seem to know.

Here's a hand from yesterday that reeked of a river bluff. This guy was fairly aggressive, but if he actually hit the ace, he would have value bet instead of full potting it since I showed hardly strength all hand.

Game # 273992176 - Texas Hold'em No Limit EUR 0.25/0.50 - Table "Halmstad"
Game ended 2006-03-11 03:53:18 GMT+01:00

Players:
fr00die (EUR 27.45 in seat 1)
Snowracer (EUR 17.70 in seat 3)
nakkeman (EUR 46.62 in seat 4)
Bashdar (EUR 29.40 in seat 5)
a-o (EUR 20.50 in seat 6)
z0s0 (EUR 66.79 in seat 7)
MATTZOMB (EUR 50.63 in seat 8)

Dealer: a-o
Small Blind: z0s0 (0.25)
Big Blind: MATTZOMB (0.50)

MATTZOMB was dealt: 6c - 2c

fr00die Call (0.50)
Snowracer Fold
nakkeman Fold
Bashdar Fold
a-o Fold
z0s0 Fold
MATTZOMB Check

Flop 3c - 6s - Th

MATTZOMB Bet (0.70)
fr00die Raise (1.40)
MATTZOMB Call (0.70)

Turn 3c - 6s - Th - 7d

MATTZOMB Check
fr00die Check

River 3c - 6s - Th - 7d - Ah

MATTZOMB Check
fr00die Bet (3.00)
MATTZOMB Call (3.00)

fr00die shows: Ks - Jd (high card ace)
MATTZOMB shows: 6c - 2c (a pair of sixes)

MATTZOMB wins: EUR 9.55 (with a pair of sixes)
Rake: EUR 0.30