Some issues with multi-tabling
I actually had intended to post this in an existing thread in the HH section, but felt that it deserved it's own thread. I know a lot of FTTers are mutli-tablers so I hope this helps, and anyone who would like to add to this or comment on it, feel free. I may be coming back to add a few more things to this.
Renton,
I was actually going to start a thread about this, but since you asked, It's a perfect time to cover a few points.
My standard of late has been to play 8, yes. Before that I had never gone above 4, but I got the dell 30 incher so I can pretty much 9 table with no overlap.. it's a thing of beauty. The first night I did it, I dropped a good 3 buyins in an hour or so. The next day, I dropped about 5. But since then I've really gotten used to it. I've been running really well lately. Yesterday I started adding a single SnG to fill the screen (9).. played 3.. placed 1, 1, 2. So I'm gonna keep doing that and see how that goes. They were only the 10+1's, but I figure I read hoh1 and hoh2, might as well put some of that knowledge to use. :)
The stereotype for playing this many tables is that you turn into this uber-rock with no decision making ability.. everything becomes automatic. And that just isn't true. Granted, I do play very tight, perhaps a bit tighter then I should. I'm at a different computer right now, but over the last 25k hands or so I think I'm running at about 15/7 or so. If I nudge those numbers up just a bit, I think I'd be taking advantage of a bit more value, and maybe get a little bit more action.
When I was significantly newer to hold 'em, I used to just one-table the games on pacific. I started with only $5 I won from placing in a freeroll, and really worked that number up. It got to the point where I was beating the NL400 and NL600 short-handed games fairly well (albeit under-bankrolled). As one point I would say I was crushing those games.. and probably with vpip/pfr numbers of like 50/25 (complete guess, didn't have PT.. never even had heard of it at time). I was really a lagg, borderline maniac at times. It really helps me now to get into the mind of a good lagg (havn't seen many at my level) and also helps me when I want to make a move once in a while now. Of course now when I make moves I have such fold equity due to my image and the fact that the quality of play on stars is far, far superior to pacific.
For those interested, I only cashed out $1,000 from pacific, and lost several thousand when I went bust. BANKROLL MANAGEMENT IS KEY - FOLLOW IT AT ALL TIMES. And don't play at games you aren't ready for.
Playing so many tables just forces you do leave some value on the table whether you like it or not, for two reasons (probably more, but it's all I can think of). One, because you want to avoid tricky/marginal spots. You lack the reads that you ordinarily would have which can put you into some tough spots against thinking, agressive players. This is a reason why I probably shouldn't advertise how many tables I play. But it's kind of hard when I'm sitting at half the tables at my limit. Also, being forced into a situation where you have to spend a lot of time thinking about a marginal situation with imperfect information (due to subpar reads) just sucks. Take my word for it.
Hrrrm.. reads. First I want to talk about giving them as I kind of implied in the paragraph above. I think I talked about this earlier in the thread, but I seem to have this nasty habit of genuinely going into the tank when I have a tough decision. When there is still betting to take place, I think an aware opponent can really pinpoint a hand that I'm on. It's something I need to work on. I also usually use the auto-fold button preflop, but I also sometimes just don't use that with a trash hand, particularly in late position and certainly in the SB just so it's a bit harder to get a read on me. Any thoughts on this?
'Playing the player' does suffer a bit, but on the flip side, it often keeps you out of fancy play syndrome, so it's kind of a balancing act. I have issues with patience, and for me, playing many tables helps to keep me playing tight, solid poker, albeit with an occasional mixup play here and there. Pokertracker/Pokerace helps with the reads, and being able to see vpip/pfr numbers on the screen is invaluable. 15/3 nit raises UTG, folds to you on the button with AKo? 27o is better here. Another practical application is say, you raise EP with QQ, get called in 1 spot behind, flop comes Kxxr. That king is FAR scarier if the caller is say, 40vpip as opposed to 20vpip. Saying a depended on these programs would be a far-fetched lie however. They do help though, so I'll just leave it at that.
Getting reads. It's not as bad as you think. But it can certainly put you into some tough spots. The ability to watch a hand being played out that you aren't involved in is a wealth of information, and turns into a goldmine if there is a showdown (or somebody thinks they are cute and hits the 'show cards' button). The ones that raise their 26o, c-bet, take it down and show might think they are being tricky, but anybody with half a brain knows thats not how they play, and the fact that they are advertising for meta-game purposes gives an aware opponent an edge on them IMO.
Development as a player, in my opinion, does suffer a bit. Why do I continue to play so many tables if I think this is the case? I'm a guy that will voluntarily sit at a tough table, or a soft table with some good player(s), just to try to improve my game. Fnord, I hate to use you as an example, but I do this to you quite frequently. If this bothers you or you'd rather me not talk to you at the table or something, just let me know. Watching you in action has certainly improved my game, particularly watching you utilize position and agression and putting yourself into what I think are very marginal, but +EV situations against some of the donks at NL100.
I think what I lose in the ability to 'play the player' is at least somewhat counter-weighted by the fact that I have to make tons of reasonably good decisions over and over. Also, I think at times, I should cut down to maybe 4 tables for a period of time if for no other reason then to develop those 'playing the player' type skills. Maybe even lagg it up a bit.. when you are winning, it's sure as hell more fun that way.
For those still reading, I didn't have any intention of going this long with this post. Hope you enjoyed. I may come back and add a few things as I'm sure there's a few other points I'd like to adress.
