I have got to stop bluffing god damnit.

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03-06-2006, 07:55 PM
Renton

I have got to stop bluffing god damnit.

I made the perfect read on this guys hand. I KNEW he had JJ-KK. And he would not fucking fold it!

He had to know he was beat and was just thinking, "oh well I guess I'll just go broke with my jacks".

Was it wrong for me to try to steal this pot?

***** Hand History for Game 3683203801 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, March 06, 19:50:23 ET 2006
Table Mo Money (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 6: Necro2883 ( $129.48 )
Seat 10: Renton555 ( $39.18 )
Seat 9: nasty2003bb ( $35.08 )
Seat 5: legend240 ( $32.85 )
Seat 4: SErebel_11 ( $64.21 )
Seat 2: JonnieFargo ( $23 )
Seat 3: King_Ron ( $9.55 )
Seat 8: ChisoxFan08 ( $24.15 )
Seat 7: chynaphuong ( $30.49 )
JonnieFargo posts small blind [$0.10].
King_Ron posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ 8h 8d ]
>You have options at Bolero (No DP) Table!.
>You have options at Sooner Table!.
ZEHER has joined the table.
SErebel_11 did not respond in time.
SErebel_11 folds.
legend240 calls [$0.25].
Necro2883 folds.
chynaphuong folds.
ChisoxFan08 folds.
nasty2003bb raises [$4].
Renton555 calls [$4].
JonnieFargo folds.
King_Ron folds.
>You have options at Sooner Table!.
legend240 calls [$3.75].
>You have options at Bolero (No DP) Table!.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, 4c, Ad ]
legend240 checks.
nasty2003bb bets [$2.21].
>You have options at Sea Swag Table!.
Renton555 raises [$6].
legend240 folds.
nasty2003bb calls [$3.79].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
nasty2003bb checks.
Renton555 bets [$10].
nasty2003bb calls [$10].
** Dealing River ** [ 3c ]
nasty2003bb checks.
Renton555 checks.
nasty2003bb shows [ Js, Jd ] a pair of jacks.
Renton555 doesn't show [ 8h, 8d ] a pair of eights.
nasty2003bb wins $42.15 from the main pot with a pair of jacks.
03-06-2006, 08:01 PM
Warpe

Who was it that made the perfect read again?
03-06-2006, 08:06 PM
Fnord

You got half of it right. For what it's worth I think this hand is a step in the right direction, but you need to pick your target better and really put him to a difficult decision.
03-06-2006, 08:45 PM
Ugly Ed

You did good putting him on a hand.

Here IMO the reason your bluff didnt work.
Its 25 NL. At 25$ NL there are some people like you that are really trying hard to get better and move up levels. You are a thinking player. So you play as if your $ is a % of the limit. You play 25$NL as if it was 250$NL or more. Most of the people though that play at that limit just like to gamble and have fun. Plus a losing few buyins doesnt matter to them. They play "lucky cards" have a good feeling", "never fold an A or a big PP (88 and up)." Stuff like that. So it is hard to make them fold when they have a "good" hand. They dont really care what is on the board. They have a big hand "never fold a big hand". So they stay in. There would have been atleast an A on that board for them to even think about folding. Even then (like here) they still might not if they felt like they might catch another J. The villian in this hand is most likely that type of player. With a real big river bet you MAY have gotten him to fold. Since he didnt get another J.

If I would have been villian in that hand I would have probably folded the Js. (It was a good bet for someone that hit an A.) Unless I had you tagged as bluffer/over better.

Also bluff with junk hands or good draws. Dont bluff with small PPs. Try getting in as cheap as possible with them, and hitting a set, and destacking someone, especially at $25NL. Fold to a raise if you dont make a set on the flop or have an over pair.
03-06-2006, 09:31 PM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Who was it that made the perfect read again?

That I know of, I gave no evidence that I didn't hold the A.
03-06-2006, 11:29 PM
Lukie

just fold preflop.
03-07-2006, 04:04 AM
bdawg56kg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

just fold preflop.

Quoted for truth. Not even close either, unless this guy has been raising like that every other hand. But if that were the case, then I would 3-bet pre.

As for the actual hand, nice read, but this is why bluffing at 25NL is often not a good idea.
03-07-2006, 04:04 AM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

just fold preflop.

*nod*
03-07-2006, 01:55 PM
Rondavu

3rd barrel anyone? Perfect spot with the read against anyone but a calling station. :twisted:
03-07-2006, 02:00 PM
Muxy

Stick to nutpeddling/set farming at these stakees.
03-07-2006, 02:18 PM
mcatdog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muxy

Stick to nutpeddling/set farming at these stakees.

Here comes Fnord...

http://www.divineparadox.com/Journal...oaringLion.jpg
03-07-2006, 02:19 PM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

3rd barrel anyone? Perfect spot with the read against anyone but a calling station. :twisted:

It mighta worked, but I ran out of balls, and I don't think anything but an allin would have had a chance in hell.
03-07-2006, 03:04 PM
Silly String

I think you are still getting called down. This guy proved that by cold calling $10 on the turn. He is going yard with his JJ.

Like Fnord said: the only thing you can do here is to make sure the opponent you try to bluff is capable folding when beat. Reading the cards is only half the equation. Good job putting him on a hand though.
03-07-2006, 04:34 PM
Aces

Can't call 16x w/88 . Easy fold.
03-07-2006, 11:41 PM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aces

Can't call 16x w/88 . Easy fold.

the depth of his stack justifies this call.
03-08-2006, 09:44 AM
Aces

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aces

Can't call 16x w/88 . Easy fold.

the depth of his stack justifies this call.

Nah, too expensive. If you call 16x to hit a set where do you draw the line? 20x? 25x?
03-08-2006, 11:52 AM
r8ed

His stack and your stack have to be $40 to make this even marginally callable - especially if you plan on stealing it if you miss.
03-08-2006, 11:56 AM
Renton

I called because the big raise seemed like tens or jacks. The mistake I made was thinking this guy was capable of folding tens or jacks. If this were a higher limit game, I don't think this would be a bad call preflop. Of course if this were a higher limit game, he probably wouldn't have been dumb enough to announce his hand preflop, but I digress.
03-08-2006, 04:19 PM
Lukie

I don't know if you will ever be in a situation where the preflop call with 88 here is profitable.

also, even if you know that you can stack villain's overpair every time, you still don't have odds to call...