kings no good???

Fold these kings here? I had this strange feeling there was a set lurking out there.. Note that 55.10$ bet by pkrstallion is a 'bet pot button' bet.

Abes is somewhat loose, pkrstallion is classic TAG player.

***** Hand History for Game 3459913585 *****
$400 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, January 29, 17:08:35 EDT 2006
Table Table 65610 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Pachenga222 ( $382 )
Seat 2: OlyBear11 ( $444.05 )
Seat 3: pkrstallion7 ( $216.20 )
Seat 5: jitterboogie ( $396 )
Seat 6: AbsAces ( $443.15 )
Seat 7: WhaataBLUFF ( $111.60 )
Seat 8: AZDAN ( $472.50 )
Seat 10: Shelby_GT350 ( $472.60 )
Seat 9: Evil_Ecstasy ( $613 )
Seat 4: HenryV ( $630 )
jitterboogie posts small blind [$2].
AbsAces posts big blind [$4].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Evil_Ecstasy [ Kd Kc ]
WhaataBLUFF folds.
AZDAN folds.
Evil_Ecstasy raises [$14].
Shelby_GT350 folds.
Pachenga222 calls [$14].
OlyBear11 folds.
pkrstallion7 calls [$14].
HenryV folds.
jitterboogie folds.
AbsAces calls [$10].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, 7c, 8d ]
AbsAces checks.
Evil_Ecstasy checks.
Pachenga222 checks.
pkrstallion7 bets [$55.10].
AbsAces calls [$55.10].
Evil_Ecstasy folds???

Spin - why do you check the flop? You're more experienced than I am, but don't you bet out on a drawish flop?

possible threadjack:
I'm learning that overpairs aren't always that straightforward......

Opp is TAGG...

#Game No : 3459067980
***** Hand History for Game 3459067980 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, January 29, 14:16:47 EDT 2006
Table Table 68491 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 6: RCScott222 ( $52.78 )
Seat 2: TheChipGimp ( $44.82 )
Seat 3: insanegene ( $27.70 )
Seat 5: PBizme ( $0 )
Seat 8: olsenDK111 ( $6.63 )
Seat 7: philg113 ( $4.18 )
Seat 1: lifeinhell ( $12.65 )
Seat 9: badandy222 ( $11.15 )
Seat 4: spaceboy76 ( $24.95 )
Seat 10: CountVonHun ( $31.17 )
RCScott222 posts small blind [$0.10].
philg113 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheChipGimp [ Jc Jd ]
PBizme has left the table.
olsenDK111 folds.
badandy222 calls [$0.25].
CountVonHun calls [$0.25].
ScottM227 has joined the table.
lifeinhell folds.
TheChipGimp raises [$1.50].
insanegene folds.
spaceboy76 calls [$1.50].
RCScott222 folds.
philg113 folds.
badandy222 folds.
CountVonHun calls [$1.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2s, 7d, 9h ]
CountVonHun checks.
TheChipGimp bets [$3.50].
spaceboy76 folds.
CountVonHun is all-In [$29.67]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blinky

Spin - why do you check the flop? You're more experienced than I am, but don't you bet out on a drawish flop?

---

I checked the flop because if I bet someone could raise on a semi-bluff and I would have to fold because I have no way of knowing whether or not I'm ahead (too many hands out there beat me). Think of it this way.. if I bet, I put a big sign on my back saying 'I have an overpair, if you raise me you can bluff me out!'. You dont want to put this sign on your back in a 400 nl game where everyone makes moves on everyone. So I checked and decided to see how people bet before making any moves. Also if the turn is a brick, I can then start making moves, since draws that semi-bluff are suddenly considerably weaker with only 1 card left to go.

I would probably push here and lose to a set :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spino1i

Think of it this way.. if I bet, I put a big sign on my back saying 'I have an overpair, if you raise me you can bluff me out!'. You dont want to put this sign on your back in a 400 nl game where everyone makes moves on everyone. So I checked and decided to see how people bet before making any moves. Also if the turn is a brick, I can then start making moves, since draws that semi-bluff are suddenly considerably weaker with only 1 card left to go.

---

Hey, your first sentence sounds oddly relevant :) ... so if I'm getting you right your line in this situation is tending towards a check/call (but I suppose in this case the PSB+call screws things up a bit).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spino1i

I checked the flop because if I bet someone could raise on a semi-bluff and I would have to fold because I have no way of knowing whether or not I'm ahead (too many hands out there beat me). Think of it this way.. if I bet, I put a big sign on my back saying 'I have an overpair, if you raise me you can bluff me out!'.

---

I honestly think that this is poor reasoning and you've just set yourself up for future problems. Your 3x+ BB raise first in already indicates that you have something premium since you still have a number of players to act behind you so betting here isn't necessarily indicating that you have an over pair, you've already done that.

If you believe betting here is wrong because you might face a raise, when do you bet kings on the flop? What is your concern on this flop? I can see a few concerns about this flop, namely aces, trips, a flush draw(but you hold the K- some help on the backdoor), and maybe pocket 6s. I tend to believe you need to protect your hand here and bet.

I'm curious how you bet trips on the flop or what your preflop raise range is. Say your range is AA-99 and you will lead out on trips occasionally, what will your opponents think then on a flop like this?