I think I played this right

I initially thought I'd made a mistake here on the turn, but after running it through my head some more I no longer really think so. I think the correct play on the turn is debatable, but the play I made was correct according to the fundamental theorem and so on. It really irritated me when I lost though, and I had to quit playing even though this table was fairly live.

I can't figure out how to find HH on PokerRoom, so I'll summarize:

25NL

Villan UTG + 1 raises to $1.25 before the flop.
I'm CO + 1, I reraise to $3.00 with TT.
Villan calls.
[With just a cal and previous obs, the range of hands I've got for him now is JJ, AK, AQ, mebbe KQ and mebbe QQ, but I really don't know enough about him to be sure of anything]

Flop is like 8 6 2 rainbow. Villan bets $1.00. I re-raise to $4.00. Villan calls.

[Now I'm a little confused and concerned. Is he slow-playing a monster? Is he a total donk? I tend to favor the idea that he's a total donk]

Turn is a 9.
Villan checks.

I bet $4 into a $14 pot. [This is the part i think is wrong later].
Villan calls.

River brings a K [DAMN]
Villan checks.
I check.

Villan has AK.

I think a lot of people will tell me I should have bet at $8-10 on the turn here, and I would agree that that wouldn't be wrong. I don't think my play is wrong either. I don't give him odds to draw to a 6 outer. I think I have the best hand and I'm really betting it for value. If he can call $8-10 then I'm probably screwed. If he can call $4 I may be behind but its not likely. If he reraises then I know he either hit a set or has been slow-playing a monster the whole time, and I'm done. I could have just checked the turn as well I suppose, but then if a blank falls on the river and he bets it I'm still going to call.

Anyway the conclusion of my analysis is this is just a bad beat, I played it reasonably well, and I shouldn't have let it upset me. Let me know if there is anything more to it than that. Thanks!

You need to put him on a hand.
The one hand you forget here is AK, although donk should really drop it on the flop or definatly on the turn.
My problem here is that you get a nice flop and have put your opponent on a range of missed hands from his preflop call of the reraise, so i bet this flop and hammer the turn. On your strong read here i might even be tempted to push the turn. You got the perfect flop/turn so id winthsi pot there rather than trying to make the most of it

I'd raise the flop harder, your raising less than 1/2 the pot and that won't get you the information you need. Would it not be better to force him to define his hand instead of lots of weak little bets that tell you nothing? A pot sized raise on the flop could (possibly) get a fold from JJ / QQ as you have repped AA / KK with your pre-flop re-raise. A big raise would also change calling with overcards from a small mistake into a big mistake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finky

A pot sized raise on the flop could (possibly) get a fold from JJ / QQ as you have repped AA / KK with your pre-flop re-raise.

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Where the hell do you guys play 25NL? QQ/JJ are folding to potty on the flop almost never and would probably call if you pushed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miffed22001

You need to put him on a hand.
The one hand you forget here is AK, although donk should really drop it on the flop or definatly on the turn.
My problem here is that you get a nice flop and have put your opponent on a range of missed hands from his preflop call of the reraise, so i bet this flop and hammer the turn. On your strong read here i might even be tempted to push the turn. You got the perfect flop/turn so id winthsi pot there rather than trying to make the most of it

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No AK is definitely in my range of hands - I mention it above. My problem with just pushing on the turn is that people will often play their big hands a little slow hoping for this. Actually the $1 bet on the flop and the call is a scare - $1 bet seems to be begging for a call/raise.

My observation is that a really weak donk-bet into the PFR from a suspect player is a blocker like 90% of the time. It's almost always a weak pair or draw checking you for strength to stop you from c-betting. Or it could be a guy without a clue playing his hand.

[quote="finky"]I'd raise the flop harder, your raising less than 1/2 the pot and that won't get you the information you need. Would it not be better to force him to define his hand instead of lots of weak little bets that tell you nothing? A pot sized raise on the flop could (possibly) get a fold from JJ / QQ as you have repped AA / KK with your pre-flop re-raise. A big raise would also change calling with overcards from a small mistake into a big mistake.[/quote

Actually I'm raising slightly more than 1/2 the pot, I agree I could have re-raised say $6 (pot less his $1 bet). Calling with overs is still a mistake even at the amount I did bet. I don't think a JJ or QQ will ever fold this flop. If I'd hit a set I could have broken an overpair from this guy or most people at this table.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fnord

My observation is that a really weak donk-bet into the PFR from a suspect player is a blocker like 90% of the time. It's almost always a weak pair or draw checking you for strength to stop you from c-betting. Or it could be a guy without a clue playing his hand.

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I think you are right. Sometimes when I flop a set, I will make a silly litle bet like this though because I want someone to put me on a weak hand and try to push me. Then I'd just call, and drop the hammer on the turn. Thats a different topic I guess; I can't played scared of this kind of thing all the time.

Either way, villian was getting almost 4:1, not too steep and I bet he's thinking "hey, you could have AQ". If he call's a larger bet you can be more certain your beat and go for a cheap showdown.

Disclamer: i've never played 25NL

this is pokeroom
25nl is fish fest
Get it all in on the turn

I agree with Fnord tho, if someone min bets into me as the PFR i'm potting it with any 2. 90% of the time its 2 overs an underpair or a draw wanting too see if i like the flop. I tell them I do and usually they go away

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finky

Disclamer: i've never played 25NL

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Looking at your old posts, I see $50 and $200 short. I don't get how you can expect a fold...

I said possibly. I know a lot of tight players if they see any kind of re-raise pre-flop naturally think KK-AA and will shut down if they can't beat that on the flop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finky

I agree with Fnord tho, if someone min bets into me as the PFR i'm potting it with any 2. 90% of the time its 2 overs an underpair or a draw wanting too see if i like the flop. I tell them I do and usually they go away

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How do you play this one?

100NL

2 limpers and I make it $5 from the CO with AKs. I had just made this raise 2 hands ago and took it down pre-flop and I generally splash around a bit pre-flop with position. I get the action I'm due, BB calls and so do both the limpers.

$20ish in the pot.
flop is Q73 rainow.
One of the limpers leads for $7, he has $33 behind. Folded to you. Your play?

Limper is an active player, likes to bet small with any piece but otherwise passive.

No draws and 4 people in the pot means he probably has a TPGK, doubt he would fold an AI given almost 2:1 odds.

I fold.

If he bet $1, no question I'm raising.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finky

I fold.

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....interesting. I called. Loose call, but I thought my outs were good and I don't like folding to stupid bets after raising pre-flop. Leak?

I suppose if you do spike you A or K the short stack may have a hard time getting away from a pot bigger than his stack. The only problem with this is even if you do hit an out, you may never know if he hits 2 pair or better until the showdown.

Also, if a blank falls on the turn do you fold to another $7?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finky

Also, if a blank falls on the turn do you fold to another $7?

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Not sure, but it was awefully nice of him to let me check behind on the turn...

Does anyone think that the preflop reraise what a little too much? If someone raises under the gun, you usually have to give them credit for something extremely strong, especially if you don't know your opponent. While TT is a solid hand to be the first person raising, I would probably not reraise considering that I would be completely dominated against JJ-QQ-KK-AA and only a slight favorite against two overcards. I would say a call is a better move with the hopes of getting a crap flop like above, or hitting a set.

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Originally Posted by Lodogg

Does anyone think that the preflop reraise what a little too much? If someone raises under the gun, you usually have to give them credit for something extremely strong, especially if you don't know your opponent. While TT is a solid hand to be the first person raising, I would probably not reraise considering that I would be completely dominated against JJ-QQ-KK-AA and only a slight favorite against two overcards. I would say a call is a better move with the hopes of getting a crap flop like above, or hitting a set.

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Nope
I hold a solid made hand in LP. Its 25NL, they have no idea of position. Thats why i hit the flop hard here, he pushes a big PP (trust me on that t pokerroom!) otherwise he calls with overs. Thats why im pushing this turn. If he wants to call with two overs or thinks im buying his pot fine, thats why i either make huge winnings or losses.
Not being aggressive enough in this hand is the key imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lodogg

Does anyone think that the preflop reraise what a little too much? If someone raises under the gun, you usually have to give them credit for something extremely strong, especially if you don't know your opponent. While TT is a solid hand to be the first person raising, I would probably not reraise considering that I would be completely dominated against JJ-QQ-KK-AA and only a slight favorite against two overcards. I would say a call is a better move with the hopes of getting a crap flop like above, or hitting a set.

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My purpose in the reraise is in fact to find out if I'm dominated, at a pretty reasonable cost. The only dominating hand that doesn't reraise me back is probably JJ. So I know with a raggy flop there is only one likely hand that may be ahead of me, while there are lots of likely hands that are now far behind (AK, AQs, KQs, etc).

You have to decide if you are going to play TT like its a big hand or like its a baby pair (no set no bet). Actually I hate the middle pairs for this reason. I find them to be very tricky hands; either I play them too weak or too strong, but its certainly better to play them too strong at first and get out of the way once its clear that you are beat, because usually you are winning with these hands.

I think you played it perfectly fine aside from the low turn bet, but I think he would have called a pot sized bet here with ace high regardless. The donk should have let it go after the flop re-raise.

It was $3 for him to call the re-raise on the flop into an $11 pot, if he puts you on any ace, this is a good call. He must have put you on an ace the whole way though.