Pingviini goes limit

hi all,
I have decided to learn to play limit. For those of you that dont know me here is some background: I am currently playing short handed nlhe ring at 2/4, I have also played quite a lot full ring and MTT's. I am trying to improve my game all the time and I am pretty sure that learning limit will help me to improve my nlhe game a lot.

My question is this: should I try to go to short handed lhe ring immediately or to play full ring and then perhaps try short handed later on. Also, which stakes should I start with? br shouldnt be an issue here.

I will most likely be playing on Party because it is PT compatible and located in euroland (gibraltar). All the comments like book recommendations, good links etc are welcomed. I have lee jones' book which I try to read, umm.. sometime :| I will be hopefully posting quite a lot HH's so that you have something to laugh at :)

Pingviini

Good luck.
Lee Jones book is good for beginners, but a little weak tight.
SSH by Ed Miller is the bible of limit hold em.
I personally dont believe anyone sould play 1000NL without being a winning limti player. It is just that important.
There is no such thing as a high stakes NL player, or a tournament player who is good at cash games.
There are only great limit players who excell at everything else.
Phil Ivey, Doyle Brunson, Chau Giang, Johnny Chan, Chip Reese, Barry Greenstein, Daniel Negreanu all play limit.
A tourney buy in is just a little more than a big bet to these guys.
Limit is where you learn what poker is... NL is a cake walk after you learn limit at its core.
Daniel Negreanu has said that he could beat the Bellagio 50/100 NL game without looking at his cards. I don't think he would makethat statement if he didn't have the years of practice at the higher limit tables.

If Bankroll isn't an issue, start at 2/4. Still easy to beat, and the rake isn't too bad. You don't have the silly fish at .5/1 that don't quite teach you the imoprtance of when a checkraise is better than a bet/call or bet/3bet.
It is these intricacies that will improve your poker game more than you will ever learn in NL, where you can always determine the odds you are giving your opponents, and force them to make mistakes. Limit teaches you how to make the most of a hand, or lose the least.
These are the skills impotant at the higher stakes NL games that your opponents dont fully understand.
The winner of a poker game is the player that makes the fewest mistakes. Nothing expresses the importance of mistakes as well as limit Hold em.
Post hands, be open to critiques... and I promise, your skills as a poker player will reach levels you never quite understood before.

I think Small Stakes Hold’em would work for a transition... Since he is coming from NL it would probably be a weird transition using WLLHE strategy given it is so weak tight… assuming he plays Tight Argo NL, I think SSH would be the best book…

I played NLHE before I made the (what most NLHE players refer to as) the pussy jump to LHE. I lost quite a bit until I picked up SSH. It was very easy to shift the game to winning strategy seeing as I had NLHE under my belt at the time.

Demi's right, being a good LHE player will definitely make you a better (insert other game here) player.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by outphase

I played NLHE before I made the (what most NLHE players refer to as) the pussy jump to LHE. I lost quite a bit until I picked up SSH. It was very easy to shift the game to winning strategy seeing as I had NLHE under my belt at the time.

Demi's right, being a good LHE player will definitely make you a better (insert other game here) player.

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I find it funny how you used the "the pussy jump to LHE" that's funny, given that I’d say around 90% of the players that would say this would be feeding our wallets :lol:... However I’m not going to get myself into the NL and LHE which is bettor debate, I think both games have aspects that make them good or bad to play depending on how you look at it...

I actually started out as a NL player in live games when I got online for the first time I dropped a nice chunk of change in one night... that was BEFORE I found FTR, and at that point my NL game was used to live games where I could star at someone and get the exact read on them of what they had... you just can't do that online... but you can read boards and such...

So after my real bad experience with NL online I figure fuck it, I’ll try Limit, this doesn't make me a pussy because my results are in the bank roll, sure i might not have gotten a hug BR as fast as a NL player but I sure as hell have learned a lot more about game theory and mathematics from it...

So I honestly don't think Limit or NL is bettor...

However back on topic, I think that if I were to go back to No Limit (which I have tried a couple times) I would end up over playing a bunch of hands (which I do) because limit is basically about go and aggression, with hands and NL you just have to put on the brakes a lot faster then in Limit so be careful jumping between the two...

Limit can help with the math for no limit but be careful not to fall into the trap of playing a No Limit style at a Limit table or visa versa…

My suggestion would be start out playing 2/4 full, master it, and then move to 3/6 6max. You have PLENTY of bankroll, but most importantly both of these games are always good, even for your euro-times.

Post hands like crazy, read SSH, read HEPFAP. Bother us in Vent. You really shouldn't have much of a problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

There is no such thing as a high stakes NL player, or a tournament player who is good at cash games.
There are only great limit players who excell at everything else.
Phil Ivey, Doyle Brunson, Chau Giang, Johnny Chan, Chip Reese, Barry Greenstein, Daniel Negreanu all play limit.
Limit is where you learn what poker is... NL is a cake walk after you learn limit at its core.
Daniel Negreanu has said that he could beat the Bellagio 50/100 NL game without looking at his cards.

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lol... a little biased? There are great poker player. To classify them as solely a limit player is pointless. They play all games, and play them well.

I'll admit it, I used to believe LHE was a wuss's NLHE, but seeing as I've made more money on LHE than NL, I changed my mind quite quickly. I've learned to make better laydowns and value bets through LHE and transposed this to both NLHE and PLO. Somehow, I've been winning more in all games.

The prior posts are great overviews so I won't elaborate on them, but to round out some of the things you will face:

Don't bluff until you learn from your reading and experience when you can semi-bluff, exploit your position or "push small edges" if you think you have the best hand or a great draw. Also, expect that people will call you down more than you are used to. I see comments all the time by NL players trying limit, and complaining that they can't force anyone out of a hand.

Be prepared for some days of mass frustration. When someone gets lucky against you in NL once, you lose a lot of money at one time but for some reason it hurts more when you lose a little less but spread over about 4-5 silly beats by clueless players; kind of like the difference between dying by gunshot versus a slow cancer.

Practice calculating odds. You use it all the time and you will get better and faster with practice.

Take lots of notes and pay attention to your opponents. I am sure you do this in NL as well, but you will have more opportunities to see and exploit tendencies in Limit.

Read all the archives in this section, especially the stickies. Lots of good information and topics have been covered and it will put you on the right track.

Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ltrain

Be prepared for some days of mass frustration. When someone gets lucky against you in NL once, you lose a lot of money at one time but for some reason it hurts more when you lose a little less but spread over about 4-5 silly beats by clueless players; kind of like the difference between dying by gunshot versus a slow cancer.

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for me it was different. while both are extremely fustrating/annoying, i would much rather lose little by little to suckouts than everything at once.