What is a string bet/string raise?

I was down at my local casino tonight and i tried to raise pre-flop.
I just threw my chips in and *then* said i'll raise xxx.
Then someone jumped in and said you cant do that, its a string bet, and it was an illegal move and an automatic call. They say you have to say raise before you put your chips in.

I argued the toss, things got said, tempers flaired and i probably wont be going back there for a while.
It was an MTT and there was no dealer on our table to ask.
But were they right? Is it 'illegal' to just throw your chips in.
To me it seems common sense that if you put more in than the last player then its a raise. but meh....

They have some strange rules down there... asking how much is in the pot means you have to bet the pot...

A string Bet is just like you explained. A call, THEN a raise. 2 separate moves. Is illegal because there is a pause in your action, and it is effectively 2 motions. Every player is allowed one action per round of betting. Check, Bet, Raise, Fold or Call. If you call, that is your action, you cannot "add" to it by then choosing to raise.

Your choice of action can be communicated one of two ways, verbally speaking , or physically moving chips in front of you.

To best avoid the problem, just SAY what you want to do FIRST. Then you can spend all day (not literally) placing the required amount of chips in front of you. Verbal declarations are binding, and are the easiest for everyone to understand. Most of the time, the dealer will repeat your action for the rest of the table to hear, or verbally speak if if you just move chips in front of you.

And how the hell was there no dealer at the table? And no floor manager to call over and settle the dispute?

You playin' in a real cardroom?

Well i put all my chips in in 1 motion, just picked up a stack and chucked em in. So that should be ok?

Its a proper card room, sorta.. Its a weekly tournament that they hold, theres about 8 or 9 tables and just 1 dealer to oversee everything.
We dont get a proper dealer on a table until we get to the final table.

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Originally Posted by nomore

Well i put all my chips in in 1 motion, just picked up a stack and chucked em in. So that should be ok?

Its a proper card room, sorta.. Its a weekly tournament that they hold, theres about 8 or 9 tables and just 1 dealer to oversee everything.
We dont get a proper dealer on a table until we get to the final table.

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Without actually seeing what you did I can't comment much farther than what I've said so far. If you move a stack of chips all at once, that total more than a call, then that's a raise, you can fill in the extra one or two chips in a second motion.


-Kessler

if you throw in one large chip without saying anything, the one-chip rule applies: it is considered a call, not a raise.

e.g.: the bet is $2 to you. you throw in one red chip without a verbal declaration. you have just called.

ChezJ

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Originally Posted by Kessler

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Originally Posted by nomore

Well i put all my chips in in 1 motion, just picked up a stack and chucked em in. So that should be ok?

Its a proper card room, sorta.. Its a weekly tournament that they hold, theres about 8 or 9 tables and just 1 dealer to oversee everything.
We dont get a proper dealer on a table until we get to the final table.

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Without actually seeing what you did I can't comment much farther than what I've said so far. If you move a stack of chips all at once, that total more than a call, then that's a raise, you can fill in the extra one or two chips in a second motion.


-Kessler

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I think his problem is that he moved all his chips in and then said raise. That negates the implied all in bet and turns it into a string raise. In a ring game it shouldn't be a problem but in a tournament it could very well be considered a string bet.

It could also be a problem if there was a raiser who went AI before him but his bet wasn't large enough to double the BB. In that case anyone following could only call the AI and not re-raise.

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Originally Posted by nomore

I just threw my chips in and *then* said i'll raise xxx.

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OK. This is definitely a string bet. The moment you said you'll "raise xxx" you turned it into a second betting motion. If you had wanted to go all in you didn't have to say anything after you pushed all your chips in.

Alot of new players dont understand that you cannot call and then raise. When there is a bet and the action gets to you, then you can EITHER call or you can raise. You can't do both because a verbal bet is binding, meaning that if you say it, you are forced to do it. The only thing you can do is the first thing you said you were going to do. The casinos and cardrooms have this rule as a game protection device based on "shots" that have been taken from players seeking to foresee action behind them. The string bet rule serves as a precautionary measure. The best thing to do is to speak your game. If you want to call, say "call", and if you want to raise, say "raise". Keep in mind that the first thing you say is the only thing you can do. Forget about all the old movies you've seen where someone says "I call your bet... and I raise it". It is illegal in anything other than unorganized home games. Not to mention the fact that little things like these are precisely what labels you as the "fish".

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Originally Posted by simplekid

If you want to call, say "call", and if you want to raise, say "raise". Keep in mind that the first thing you say is the only thing you can do. Forget about all the old movies you've seen where someone says "I call your bet... and I raise it". It is illegal in anything other than unorganized home games. Not to mention the fact that little things like these are precisely what labels you as the "fish".

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:-D Good advice for B&M newbies. Verbalize everything! I've been trying to engrain that in my brain. I'm terrible for string bets, especially in tourneys :(

In my home games, a few players are still used to the scripted tv/movie "i see your X and raise you Y" so I just let them slide once then enforce that you said call first.

I got picked up on this in a friendly game a few months ago. Got told by the dealer what was what and, like most people here have said, it's just a lot safer and easier to announce your move verbally, then stick chips in.

J