how to crack Aces...2 hands in 20 min

tonight after a small downswing i had these two hands coming up within 20 minuted (sorry the converter doesnt seem to work with this HH format). i havent played the donk in the first hand before, and i have no idea why he played the flop and turn like this (my call on the turn was a bit risky and i wouldnt have called more, but i somehow sensed that i could stack him if i hit the straight):


Hand #144034192 at table: Table TH 1374
Started: Fri Dec 02 01:37:33 2005

RACZEJ_MAM is at seat 1 with 115.91
jimbob6 is at seat 2 with 34.55
Indickity is at seat 3 with 119.55
Cantona-7 is at seat 4 with 13.17
max01 is at seat 5 with 68.15
Jack111111 is at seat 6 with 47.00
-DioAA- is at seat 7 with 155.82
tomifgsd is at seat 8 with 143.12
jbarba is at seat 9 with 82.95
CREMITA is at seat 10 with 38.04

tomifgsd posts the large blind 1.00
-DioAA- posts the small blind 0.50

-DioAA-: Kh, Jh
tomifgsd: --, --
jbarba: --, --
CREMITA: --, --
RACZEJ_MAM: --, --
Indickity: --, --
Cantona-7: --, --
max01: --, --
Jack111111: --, --

Pre-flop:

jbarba: Call 1.00
CREMITA: Fold
RACZEJ_MAM: Fold
Indickity: Fold
Cantona-7: Fold
max01: Call 1.00
Jack111111: Fold
-DioAA-: Call 1.00
tomifgsd: Raise 5.00
jbarba: Fold
max01: Fold
-DioAA-: Call 5.00

Flop (Board: As, 10d, 4h):

-DioAA-: Check
tomifgsd: Check

Turn (Board: As, 10d, 4h, 7c):

-DioAA-: Check
tomifgsd: Bet 3.00
-DioAA-: Call 3.00

River (Board: As, 10d, 4h, 7c, Qc):

-DioAA-: Check
tomifgsd: Bet 10.00
-DioAA-: All in
tomifgsd: All in

Showdown:

-DioAA- shows: Kh, Jh (ace high straight)
tomifgsd shows: Ad, Ah (three of a kind, Aces)

Mainpot:
-DioAA- wins the pot of 287.25 with ace high straight



the guy immediately left the table... i play the villain on the second hand quite often, he's generally quite aggressive, sometimes also with marginal hands, and i know that he tends to call minraises (even with TPGK) but rarely calls pot-sized raises unless he has a monster. thats why i minraised him twice in this hand, with a nice result :D he complained about bad beats afterwards and said he played it right...


Hand #144043897 at table: Table TH 456
Started: Fri Dec 02 01:56:09 2005

mempamal is at seat 2 with 85.55
RACZEJ_MAM is at seat 3 with 196.25
-DioAA- is at seat 5 with 118.80
HHeavey is at seat 6 with 88.65
jj119 is at seat 7 with 39.00
jc2005 is at seat 8 with 16.95
malniko is at seat 9 with 75.59
sheruk is at seat 10 with 129.15

HHeavey posts the large blind 1.00
-DioAA- posts the small blind 0.50

-DioAA-: Qs, Qd
HHeavey: --, --
jj119: --, --
jc2005: --, --
malniko: --, --
sheruk: --, --
mempamal: --, --
RACZEJ_MAM: --, --

Pre-flop:

jj119: Fold
jc2005: Fold
malniko: Fold
sheruk: Fold
mempamal: Fold
RACZEJ_MAM: Call 1.00
-DioAA-: Raise 4.00
HHeavey: Fold
RACZEJ_MAM: Raise 12.00
-DioAA-: Call 12.00

Flop (Board: 4d, Qh, 8h):

-DioAA-: Check
RACZEJ_MAM: Bet 13.00
-DioAA-: Raise 26.00
RACZEJ_MAM: Call 26.00

Turn (Board: 4d, Qh, 8h, 8s):

-DioAA-: Check
RACZEJ_MAM: Bet 23.00
-DioAA-: Raise 46.00
RACZEJ_MAM: Raise 116.00
-DioAA-: All in

River (Board: 4d, Qh, 8h, 8s, 3h):


Showdown:

RACZEJ_MAM shows: Ac, Ad (two pair, Aces and Eights)
-DioAA- shows: Qs, Qd (full house)

Mainpot:
-DioAA- wins the pot of 236.60 with full house

Wow, the guy in the 2nd hand was way too agressive after you called his reraise on the flop i wouldn't have raised AND reraised the turn... and the villain in the 1st hand should have pushed more on the turn I think.

That preflop raise, check flop line is very common about the donks i've seen lately. More often, they have a monster that they don't extract any value out of.

god this competetion is retarded hand #1 is just stupid, i wish I played against people that dumb :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TalentedTom

god this competetion is retarded hand #1 is just stupid, i wish I played against people that dumb :D

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I have $120
Tweedle Dumb has $150
Tweedle Stupid has $45

Tweedle Dumb opens for $2, a couple callers and I call with Q:diamond: 8:diamond: from the CO.

Tweedle Stupid makes it $3, all call.

5 to the flop for $15
7:spade: 9:diamond: T:diamond:

Tweedle Stuipid bets $20, Tweedle Dumb calls, I call, everyone else drops.

Turn is a blank

Tweedle Stupid bets all-in for $20ish, Tweedle Dumb calls, I call...

River pairs the 9.
Check, check

Dumb has JT, Stupid has AA

RIGGED!

Do you ever run into situations where you have a monster, but everytime you raise it everyone folds (as they probably should)? Wouldn't the ocassional slow-play be warranted in these situations TO extract some value? Naturally, if the board turns scary you must be careful not to donk it up...

These hands are back to back...not sure if my check on the river in hand 2 is donk material...if the 10 falls on the river I'm in trouble...maybe I am a donk :shock:

PokerStars Game #3215738373: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2005/12/01 - 23:04:17 (ET)
Table 'Penthesilea' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: farmdog33 ($6.05 in chips)
Seat 2: Here2Wax ($22.20 in chips)
Seat 3: VW-Dubz ($19.10 in chips)
Seat 4: TTProfessor ($23 in chips)
Seat 5: DEUTCHE 29 ($16.55 in chips)
Seat 6: Packinlipper ($3.70 in chips)
Seat 7: Maths ($34.75 in chips)
Seat 8: delo ($25 in chips)
TTProfessor: posts small blind $0.10
DEUTCHE 29: posts big blind $0.25
delo: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TTProfessor [Js Ad]
Packinlipper: folds
Maths: calls $0.25
delo: checks
farmdog33: folds
Here2Wax: raises $1 to $1.25
VW-Dubz: folds
TTProfessor: folds
DEUTCHE 29: folds
Maths: folds
delo: folds
williamdafoe joins the table at seat #9
Here2Wax collected $1.10 from pot
Here2Wax: shows [Ah As] (a pair of Aces)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.10 | Rake $0
Seat 1: farmdog33 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Here2Wax collected ($1.10)
Seat 3: VW-Dubz (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: TTProfessor (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: DEUTCHE 29 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Packinlipper folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Maths folded before Flop
Seat 8: delo folded before Flop

PokerStars Game #3215746660: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2005/12/01 - 23:05:01 (ET)
Table 'Penthesilea' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: farmdog33 ($6.05 in chips)
Seat 2: Here2Wax ($23.05 in chips)
Seat 3: VW-Dubz ($19.10 in chips)
Seat 4: TTProfessor ($22.90 in chips)
Seat 5: DEUTCHE 29 ($16.30 in chips)
Seat 6: Packinlipper ($3.70 in chips)
Seat 7: Maths ($34.50 in chips)
Seat 8: delo ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 9: williamdafoe ($10 in chips)
DEUTCHE 29: posts small blind $0.10
Packinlipper: posts big blind $0.25
williamdafoe: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TTProfessor [As Ad]
Maths: folds
delo: folds
williamdafoe: checks
farmdog33: calls $0.25
Here2Wax: calls $0.25
VW-Dubz: folds
TTProfessor: raises $0.25 to $0.50
DEUTCHE 29: folds
Packinlipper: calls $0.25
williamdafoe: folds
farmdog33: calls $0.25
Here2Wax: calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [2s 7s 9d]
Packinlipper: checks
farmdog33: bets $1
Here2Wax: calls $1
VW-Dubz leaves the table
TTProfessor: raises $2 to $3
Packinlipper: folds
farmdog33: calls $2
Here2Wax: calls $2
*** TURN *** [2s 7s 9d] [3c]
farmdog33: checks
Here2Wax: checks
TTProfessor: bets $3
farmdog33: calls $2.55 and is all-in
Here2Wax: calls $3
*** RIVER *** [2s 7s 9d 3c] [7d]
Here2Wax: checks
TTProfessor: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Here2Wax: shows [8d Jh] (a pair of Sevens)
TTProfessor: shows [As Ad] (two pair, Aces and Sevens)
TTProfessor collected $0.85 from side pot
Serenity9 joins the table at seat #3
farmdog33: shows [Qs 9c] (two pair, Nines and Sevens)
TTProfessor collected $18.10 from main pot
farmdog33 leaves the table

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Professor

Do you ever run into situations where you have a monster, but everytime you raise it everyone folds (as they probably should)?

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Against anyone who isn't dumping money into the game you must give action to get action. In my last hand this morning I raised 44 UTG, got 5 callers, caught my set and had a guy stack off against me with middle pair. I don't think I get that kind of action if I hadn't stolen the last 4 pots I played in with c-bet and less than stellar starting hands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Professor

Wouldn't the ocassional slow-play be warranted in these situations TO extract some value? Naturally, if the board turns scary you must be careful not to donk it up...

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I bet my best hands for value and mix in pure bluffs (I pick spots well enough that these plays are either profitable on their own or cost me very little.) I WANT to get in the money when I have the best of it and keeping people around cheap doesn't accomplish that. When I see guys that don't get value out of their hands, I try to play more hands against them because I know I can showdown and suck-out cheap (and get paid off)against them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Professor

Do you ever run into situations where you have a monster, but everytime you raise it everyone folds (as they probably should)? Wouldn't the ocassional slow-play be warranted in these situations TO extract some value? Naturally, if the board turns scary you must be careful not to donk it up...

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Of course slowplay of AA makes sense sometimes on very weak/passive tables or shorthanded vs chickens who fold to any big raise. But generally I think betting them hard (with caution on turn and river when you feel you're beat) extracts much more value. In your hand #2 on a standard table, I would raise more pre-flop, probably raise the flop a bit more, bet more on the turn (the board isn't scary!) and on the river bet something like 1/2 pot and say nh if one of the donks shows a 7. You play 25NL and especially on that level I wouldnt slowplay Aces because the donks there call with all kinds of crap anyway, so you extract much more if you bet hard :) On 50 or 100NL you gotta be much more careful about strong reraises on turn or river when betting Aces hard - that usually means a flopped set or even stronger...The best way to decide which line to use between slowplay and aggression is if you have a good read on a player and KNOW what he will probably fold, call, raise etc.