Another turn raise...

Waiting for a NL100 table, so I grabbed a seat.

The limpers suck (note stack sizes)

My crystal ball says the Button is sTAggy with a 24/5 split over 6.5k hands. Fairly aggro post-flop too, showing down his fair share of losers.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($4)
UTG ($42.05)
UTG+1 ($63.35)
MP1 ($18.50)
MP2 ($6.45)
CO ($19.25)
Button ($57.80)
Fnord ($49.25)

Preflop: Fnord is SB with Q:club:, Q:heart:.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, 1 fold, Button raises to $2, Fnord calls $1.75, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1.50, MP2 calls $1.50.

Flop: ($8.50) 6:club:, 7:diamond:, 3:spade: (4 players)
Fnord checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Button bets $8, Fnord calls $8, MP1 folds, MP2 folds.

Turn: ($24.50) 6:diamond: (2 players)
Fnord checks, Button bets $20.5, Fnord raises to $39.25....

I like your play. Giving a "free card" here on the flop is a bit risky but your weak play made him fire another barrel. He might have AA/KK here but oh well, I pay it off. But I highly doubt it because of his big raise on turn. He just wanted to take it down soo bad. He probably had AK/AQ because TAgg's dont normally raise middle PP's after 2 limpers.

I want to see later how right my crystal ball was. Usually I am dead wrong with your hands fnordy.. :|

I like it, I think, but I'd rather do this with kings or aces. What if the turn card is a king or ace? Do you play it the same?

Do you have a read on this player that says, "He doesn't have AA or KK, he definitely has AK, JJ, TT, or something else?" If you don't, I definitely think you should reraise here preflop to find out where you stand. If he comes over the top of you, then you're put to a decision...do I call and play for a set, push with QQ, or fold? If he doesn't come over the top of you then you'll know your QQ is probably good here.

I think waiting around until the turn to jam your chips in could be a mistake here. You've put in $50 but you essentially don't know where you're at yet, what you're up against. All you see is that this guy fired three barrels at you. Your stats on him are nice, but even players with those types of stats get AA or KK every now and then.

I have a feeling that the six on the turn was your saving grace here...He may be on AA or KK, but that second six and your hefty reraise on the turn should scare the bejezus out of him.

George, Laggy opponents will always tell you that they have a good hand by raising, do you always believe them. I understand what you are saying but he might just push with JJ as well after a flop reraise.

Also I dont think that he really is that worried about that 6 in a raised pot. but I can be wrong again :) I still put him on AK/AQ or possibly JJ given the amount he raised on turn.

It's only been raised to 4x's the bb, I see guys in my games calling with A6 there all the time...It's doubtful that the 6 scares anybody, but it could, who knows? There are four callers post flop, meaning there are a lot of holdings people could have.....again, probably not a huge deal.

My deal with reraising preflop is that it also isolates so a random holding like AT, AJ, KJ, KQ, etc, don't hit an ace or king on the flop. I guess if a A or a K hits on the flop you don't have to go any further with this hand...

I like the play, it's just not how I would have played it necessarily. I also don't have 6500 hands in a database on people (my site isn't supported by PokerTracker)...

Explain what I should be thinking here Ping...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ultimate George

Even players with those type of stats get AA or KK every now and then.

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You don't need as much info against over aggressive players, because they often put bad money in the pot. It's a long term equation. That one AA or KK they catch is irrelevant, because you called them down without info 5 previous times (maintaining the enormous implied odds) holding a strong hand and spoiled their purchase. That one hand you lose won't hurt the concept.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dalecooper

I like it, I think, but I'd rather do this with kings or aces.

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I'd like a set, a smoking hot mistress and a pony too. But we just have to make the most out of what we got...

He doesn't really want a pony. That would be ghey.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dalecooper

I like it, I think, but I'd rather do this with kings or aces.

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I'd like a set, a smoking hot mistress and a pony too. But we just have to make the most out of what we got...

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I'm just saying, the lower your overpair is, the closer this is to a mistake (that is, not raising the flop). Queens are probably the lowest hand where I think this is a good idea. Jacks or tens making this play are just begging for trouble. The fewer overcards you have to worry about, the less it troubles you to give away a free card to a hand that's very probably worse than yours.

Got a better line?

I thought AA/KK were both very likely holdings for the button in this spot. But he could have lots of other stuff as well.

I had a lot of mixed feelings about my line as well...

Not sure about a better line - hands like this one are very tricky OOP. Like I said, I think I like it. I'm just waffling... can't a guy waffle?

Let me ask you this: how often had you seen this guy bet the pot after raising pre-flop? And how cognizant do you think he was of position play? He ought to recognize your flop smooth call as a warning sign, so it is more likely by the turn that he has a big pair and not just overs. Not a lock or anything like it, but it makes it seem 5 or 10% more likely. Your turn checkraise is interesting. If he's on an overpair it should look like you're slowplaying something (set of sevens?), if he's that aware. If he's on overs his play is unusually aggressive, and then it doesn't really matter what you have or don't have - he has to realize at that point that it's time to roll over and die.

I like check-raising this hand, to me it's just a question of whether you CR the flop or the turn. The flop is way promising for queens (unless he has kings or aces - he's not going away) and that's obviously going to be your cheapest opportunity to establish yourself in the hand. The turn represents a better hand for you (might even get him to fold kings/aces), but costs you more as well, and has the added disadvantage of giving away a card if he has AK.

Hmmmm.

This is the kind of play I *love* to make on opponents that I know like the back of my hand. And especially the tight ones who are always seeing monsters under the bed, or the overly aggressive ones who blast away whenever you check to them no matter what they've got.