Players playing back at me a lot

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10-04-2005, 04:00 AM
Checkways

Players playing back at me a lot

I've noticed a trend lately online that some of the regulars keep playing back at me. And I don't mean 1-2 guys, I mean like more than a dozen. It's getting to the point that I'm thinking about trying a different poker room.

I don't know if I'm just getting unlucky and they're hitting hands against me, I'm sure that at least 60% of the time they actually have me beat. But I think I'm getting bluffed off of pots a lot. I don't know. What compounds the problem is that I've been running bad for the last week and I'm always expecting the worst outcome in a hand. So when they raise or reraise me, I just let my top pair, overpair, or two pair go.

I have to give them a lot of credit though. They're making really good moves. And many times they'll show me their middle pair or their busted draw just to make me question myself further.

On the flip side, I remember a month ago when I was hot, I noticed that I made most of my money slowplaying and calling bluffs. I think that now that I'm not catching hands, I'm less willing to call a bluff and I have less hands to slow play.

But this still doesn't solve the problem of being constantly raised or pushed all in when the scare card comes out. Is this a dumb conspiracy theory, or are these guys sharing notes about me? Like, "This guy always folds to an all-in reraise unless he's got the nuts".

Anyone else encounter this problem? Am I being a wussy? Or am I playing smart poker and just getting unlucky? Any help would be appreciated.
10-04-2005, 04:06 AM
Fnord

Re: Players playing back at me a lot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Checkways

I've noticed a trend lately online that some of the regulars keep playing back at me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Checkways

What compounds the problem is that I've been running bad for the last week and I'm always expecting the worst outcome in a hand. So when they raise or reraise me, I just let my top pair, overpair, or two pair go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Checkways

On the flip side, I remember a month ago when I was hot, I noticed that I made most of my money slowplaying and calling bluffs.

Stuff to think about and I'll add more...

It's my observation that players who are too tight and passive will start to notice that they're not getting action and try to trap and slow play to compensate. Defaulting to these lines doesn't bring home the money.

Best of luck turning things around.
10-04-2005, 04:55 AM
Checkways

Re: Players playing back at me a lot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

It's my observation that players who are too tight and passive will start to notice that they're not getting action and try to trap and slow play to compensate. Defaulting to these lines doesn't bring home the money.

I swear to God I'm not tight weak. If anything, they've been playing back at me because I've been too aggressive post flop. (Betting too many draws, raising the flop with any top pair, etc). I've been trying to chill out some and hopefully this will help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Best of luck turning things around.

Thanks, man.
10-04-2005, 09:17 AM
biondino

I think there may be a danger you could become tight weak, if I'm reading this right. I'm nothing like the poker player you are, checkways, but I find I go tight weak if I am feeling low or lacking in confidence, and I effectively lose the edge that I have at playing people out of pots post-flop. I have to either stop playing, or physically drag myself back into the game with a few confident moods. And usually this state comes immediately after the state you described of a certain lagginess against oppos who aren't having any of it.

You know what your A game is, and you know how to play it. Focus on that, take a step back, and it'll come good.[/b]
10-04-2005, 10:12 AM
Miffed22001

Fnord hit it on the head i feel but ill add a little too if i may.
The problem with having no cards is that imo it affects your confidence for a bit (i had this problem when i felt i was getting no cards) By having poor cards or making no monsters you constantly out think your own plays, all of a sudden a reraise to your two pair bet is ALWAYS a set.
Yes there are obviously other problems, poker related that fnord pointed out but i think confidence may be a factor here too (and i do recognise it shouldnt affect your play but lets be honest and say that at times emotion does effect our play)
My advice would be either to take a short time out, just a few days and do something else you enjoy to get that 'i can take on the world' feeling back or drop down a few levels where your game should make winnings more easily or play a different game for a while.
This may not help at all but at least consider it if you feel the cards are against you at the moment.
10-04-2005, 01:03 PM
Rondavu

If you have 12 people playing back at you, then it's time to go camping. I dream of action when I flop good hands. If the action farm is ripe for the picking, and you're catching nothing, you can't force it. You just have to wait and get payed. If your cards are dry then that's life and poker.

When your image is loose, people come over the top of you with slim holdings. Make a stand on two pair or TPTK on the flop. Given your image, it becomes profitable to hang in there with something halfway decent. You say people are playing back at you, but when it's decision time you're deciding that it's not the case, and everyone just has monsters when they're in hand with you.

Look man, sometimes people just keep drawing better hands. Running bad happens. If you have two pair on a clean board however, I wouldn't be folding that. Show it down.

Play tight until the respect comes back. If the respect never comes, then continue getting payed. You have to adjust yourself at all times to the image. Whether it be theirs or yours.
10-04-2005, 06:26 PM
jmontis

NL takes courage
10-04-2005, 07:04 PM
Zangief

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmontis

NL takes courage

Brunson is always talking about how it takes "Heart" ... like from Captain Planet.

http://www.turner.com/planet/movies/ma-timov.html
10-07-2005, 01:33 AM
Checkways

Quote:

Originally Posted by biondino

I think there may be a danger you could become tight weak, if I'm reading this right. I'm nothing like the poker player you are, checkways, but I find I go tight weak if I am feeling low or lacking in confidence, and I effectively lose the edge that I have at playing people out of pots post-flop. I have to either stop playing, or physically drag myself back into the game with a few confident moods. And usually this state comes immediately after the state you described of a certain lagginess against oppos who aren't having any of it.

You know what your A game is, and you know how to play it. Focus on that, take a step back, and it'll come good.[/b]

Yeah, taking a break is a good idea and something I've been thinking about doing. I also kinda changed my playing schedule to in order to avoid those regulars more. Thanks for the advice.
10-07-2005, 01:37 AM
Checkways

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Fnord hit it on the head i feel but ill add a little too if i may.
The problem with having no cards is that imo it affects your confidence for a bit (i had this problem when i felt i was getting no cards) By having poor cards or making no monsters you constantly out think your own plays, all of a sudden a reraise to your two pair bet is ALWAYS a set.
Yes there are obviously other problems, poker related that fnord pointed out but i think confidence may be a factor here too (and i do recognise it shouldnt affect your play but lets be honest and say that at times emotion does effect our play)
My advice would be either to take a short time out, just a few days and do something else you enjoy to get that 'i can take on the world' feeling back or drop down a few levels where your game should make winnings more easily or play a different game for a while.
This may not help at all but at least consider it if you feel the cards are against you at the moment.

I agree. I really think a lot of it comes down to confidence. I had none for a while there. Started to think that maybe I was the worst player in the world, lol. Or that cosmic events had suddenly made me extremely unlucky. My problem was that suddenly I got angry that these people were kicking me while I was down. Guess what happened? I lost even more calling them down and playing back at them at wrong times.
10-07-2005, 01:38 AM
Checkways

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zangief

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmontis

NL takes courage

Brunson is always talking about how it takes "Heart" ... like from Captain Planet.

http://www.turner.com/planet/movies/ma-timov.html

Sure, but where do you draw the line between "heart" and "stupid"? Do calling stations just have a lot of heart?
10-07-2005, 01:43 AM
Checkways

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

If you have 12 people playing back at you, then it's time to go camping. I dream of action when I flop good hands. If the action farm is ripe for the picking, and you're catching nothing, you can't force it. You just have to wait and get payed. If your cards are dry then that's life and poker.

I think I'm gonna start playing tighter for a while to give myself easier decisions. I usually play a semi-loose aggressive aggressive game where my VP$IP was around 21%. I think I'll drop down to 17-18% at least until I get my bankroll even again. Thanks for the advice.
10-07-2005, 09:48 AM
Rondavu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Checkways

I usually play a semi-loose aggressive game where my VP$IP was around 21%. I think I'll drop down to 17-18% at least until I get my bankroll even again. Thanks for the advice.

Eventually you'll see why your words here are rigid and incompatible with winning poker. You are moving in the right direction. You've begun the experimentation process that spawns better profits. You're trying out the different styles to see what happens. Great, but that's only the beginning.

Eventually you will have no style at all. You'll learn the irony of all your experimenting with different styles as a constant were for the purpose of finding no constant. Eventually you'll float between all the styles as you see fit. Some days you'll have 21%, and some days you'll have 17%. It really depends on where you were sitting.

I've gone for hours on a loose aggressive tear, only to find myself spending the whole next night camping on a bunch of LAGGS at a 200NL table.

Concentrate on manipulation of opponents instead of changing styles. That's because the changing of styles is inherent to the process of manipulation of opponents. Look outward, not inward. You'll learn that your style is totally dependant on environmental factors.
10-07-2005, 10:57 AM
DogOnMySide

Rondavu is so right.

Do you ever find yourself sitting at a table winning money off people left right and centre, but running a 28% VP$IP and thinking "I'm supposed to be playing tight!" and slowing right down... and finding that your steady stream of blinids and small pots just dries up.

What's all that about? :S
10-09-2005, 02:14 AM
Checkways

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Checkways

I usually play a semi-loose aggressive game where my VP$IP was around 21%. I think I'll drop down to 17-18% at least until I get my bankroll even again. Thanks for the advice.

Eventually you'll see why your words here are rigid and incompatible with winning poker. You are moving in the right direction. You've begun the experimentation process that spawns better profits. You're trying out the different styles to see what happens. Great, but that's only the beginning.

Eventually you will have no style at all. You'll learn the irony of all your experimenting with different styles as a constant were for the purpose of finding no constant. Eventually you'll float between all the styles as you see fit. Some days you'll have 21%, and some days you'll have 17%. It really depends on where you were sitting.

I've gone for hours on a loose aggressive tear, only to find myself spending the whole next night camping on a bunch of LAGGS at a 200NL table.

Concentrate on manipulation of opponents instead of changing styles. That's because the changing of styles is inherent to the process of manipulation of opponents. Look outward, not inward. You'll learn that your style is totally dependant on environmental factors.

Yeah, I completely agree. I'm just not at the level to be able to do this on multiple tables. I can mix it up fairly well based on my opponents when I play live. But with no faces to go with the names and with so many hands flying at me, I just can't do this yet. Hopefully soon though!
10-09-2005, 02:17 AM
Checkways

Btw, guys. The streak is over. I've won it all back and then some. And more importantly, people aren't playing back at me nearly as much now (THANK GOD!).

Thanks for all the help, guys. I think taking a break and playing fewer hands helped me through this streak.