should I just call the river?

The river bet of his looked like big strength. My instincts told me to just call but for some reason I went ahead and raised.

------HAND 5------
Game #883895994: Texas Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1) - 2005/09/13 - 16:20:56 (UK)
Table "Emerald" Seat 4 is the button.
Seat 1: Tomace ($166.50 in chips)
Seat 2: Adil01013 ($61.04 in chips)
Seat 3: Bates sits out
Seat 4: Smiffy44 ($92 in chips)
Seat 5: dumpy ($49.53 in chips)
Seat 6: cashflow ($146.20 in chips)
dumpy: posts small blind $0.50
cashflow: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Smiffy44 [9h Jd]
Tomace: folds
Adil01013: folds
Smiffy44: raises to $3
dumpy: calls $2.50
cashflow: calls $2
----- FLOP ----- [Qd 9d Jc]
dumpy: checks
cashflow: checks
Smiffy44: bets $7
dumpy: calls $7
cashflow: folds
----- TURN ----- [Qd 9d Jc][Js]
dumpy: checks
Smiffy44: checks
----- RIVER ----- [Qd 9d Jc Js][3s]
cashflow leaves the table
dumpy: bets $12
Smiffy44: raises to $24
dumpy: raises to $39.53 and is all-in
Smiffy44: calls $15.53
----- SHOW DOWN -----
dumpy: shows [Qs Jh] (A Full House, Jacks full of Queens)
Smiffy44: shows [9h Jd] (A Full House, Jacks full of Nines)
dumpy collected $99.06 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $102.06 Main pot $99.06 Rake $3
Board [Qd 9d Jc Js 3s]
Seat 1: Tomace folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Adil01013 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Smiffy44 (button) lost
Seat 5: dumpy (small blind) showed [Qs Jh] and won ($99.06) with A Full House, Jacks full of Queens

Why just call? You can't think your beaten so all calling is doing is limiting your return.

If you don't go broke here, your instinct should tell you to play lower limits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pantherhound

The river bet of his looked like big strength. My instincts told me to just call but for some reason I went ahead and raised.

------HAND 5------
Game #883895994: Texas Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1) - 2005/09/13 - 16:20:56 (UK)
Table "Emerald" Seat 4 is the button.
Seat 1: Tomace ($166.50 in chips)
Seat 2: Adil01013 ($61.04 in chips)
Seat 3: Bates sits out
Seat 4: Smiffy44 ($92 in chips)
Seat 5: dumpy ($49.53 in chips)
Seat 6: cashflow ($146.20 in chips)
dumpy: posts small blind $0.50
cashflow: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Smiffy44 [9h Jd]
Tomace: folds
Adil01013: folds
Smiffy44: raises to $3
dumpy: calls $2.50
cashflow: calls $2
----- FLOP ----- [Qd 9d Jc]
dumpy: checks
cashflow: checks
Smiffy44: bets $7
dumpy: calls $7
cashflow: folds
----- TURN ----- [Qd 9d Jc][Js]
dumpy: checks
Smiffy44: checks
----- RIVER ----- [Qd 9d Jc Js][3s]
cashflow leaves the table
dumpy: bets $12
Smiffy44: raises to $24
dumpy: raises to $39.53 and is all-in
Smiffy44: calls $15.53
----- SHOW DOWN -----
dumpy: shows [Qs Jh] (A Full House, Jacks full of Queens)
Smiffy44: shows [9h Jd] (A Full House, Jacks full of Nines)
dumpy collected $99.06 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $102.06 Main pot $99.06 Rake $3
Board [Qd 9d Jc Js 3s]
Seat 1: Tomace folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Adil01013 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Smiffy44 (button) lost
Seat 5: dumpy (small blind) showed [Qs Jh] and won ($99.06) with A Full House, Jacks full of Queens

---

The old rope a dope trick you got hosed, but i wouldn't of raised the river for the simple fact he stayed in the hand with you this entire time so he has to have something, and that's what happens when you play the lower two pair possibilites on the board, in the situation that he could have the queen jack, and obviously that is what happened here. But you were destined to lose money in this situation how much depended on your style of play and experience.

nothing you can do there. not very many hands can beat you so putting the raise was the probably the best thing to do

Not true lets look at it this way he raised preflop the guy calls, he raised on the flop the calls, at this point you have to ask yourself what can this guy have, is he stringing me along to let me continue to bet at him? Or is he on some kind of draw.

On the turn they both checked because that was a scare card and they had to know that helped one of them out. the guy bet on the river because he knew he had the pat hand, at that point If i were him I would of looked at the board and asked myself this guy hung in there until the end with me then he raised on the river when that card obviously didn't help him out.
Not many players are willing to stick in this far on a bluff, so he has to have a hand, then I would of been like, has he gotten me beat? Now you can either pay for it to see, or you can do some more analyzing. Once you realized you had the second best hand and that siutation and put all the pieces together to me this looks like a clear fold.

I fold pre flop but after the flop comes i play exactly the same. Tough luck he didnt have AJ or KJ or 99 or something. Nh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by drmcboy

If you don't go broke here, your instinct should tell you to play lower limits.

---

A proper point is made here. You have to think about how many hands (from poor players) you're ahead of that WILL committ their chips. That includes any Jake, KT, pocket 3's, and pocket 9's. Only two hands beat you... QQ and QJ. QQ is out (unless the villain is very poor) since the villain smooth called a modest raise preflop with one to act behind him. That leaves only QJ.

You are overwhelmingly ahead most of the time in this situation, therefore the correct thing to do is JAM IT.

Anytime you feel that more worse hands are confident than better hands against you, then you need to put it all in.

This is why having a read is so important. What having a loose or tight read on someone does is it tips the scale in one direction or the other. For instance, if you have a tight intelligent read on the villain, you can eliminate KT when the villain goes all in. A smart player would never do that without a full house on that board. A fish does it all day long.

If I had a really smart read on a villain, I very possibly might just call. The reason being he didn't start betting heavy until a river blank. Smells like slowplay from a smart player waiting for an opponent to catch something. here's what I feel a smart player would do with the following hands you have beat...

99 - Flopped a set, improved to a house on the turn. Half the time might raise the flop $7 bet all in fearing straight and flush possibilities. It's push or call with 99 here on the flop. No room for min reraises. 99 acts exactly as your opponent did throughout the hand. Caught the house on turn, and wanted you to catch something or get really aggressive.

QJ - Flopped two pair. acts exactly the same way as 99. Either pushes on the flop or just calls.

33 - Never would stick around

Jx - Gone on the $7 flop bet.

KT - Acts similar to 99 and QJ when you bet $7 fearing a race against a high set that fills up. The key is the all in on the river. KT is then no longer possible from a tight player.

It's not as simple as it looks. I understand what your gut may have been telling you when he bet $12 on a river 3. You gotta think it's either a bluff or a slowplayed house. Either way raising may be pointless because a bluff folds, and a smart player with a better hand rapes you. But given that 99 would act this way in the hands of a good player, and you probably didn't have a definate tight read anyway, you have to lose your chips. Besides, the KT possibility wasn't eliminated before you committed yourself with $24 on the river anyway.

You had what was comming to you, should have never been in the pot, because stuff like this will happen.

You guys are ruthless on here. heh I love it!

To all those that advocate folding preflop... you never steal the blinds from the button? This hand appears to have started out as a steal that hit big. I'm more inclined to put the villian on AJ, KJ or AQ before QJ.

lol a steal!!! he only raised to 3.00 that is one pussy steal, i think he was trying to see the flop

3x could've been the typical raise for the table...


-Chris

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STIdrivr

lol a steal!!! he only raised to 3.00 that is one pussy steal, i think he was trying to see the flop

---

3X was the standard raise for the table.

I was trying to isolate to 2 way so I could represent strength on the flop, not steal all of $1.

Good luck losing money overbetting pots.