Just saw this on another forum. Hope this isn't something everyone has seen.
http://www.neiu.edu/~ayjamess/hmmm.htm#Main
I'm pretty skeptical (just because it was made by some college student it seems).
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Just saw this on another forum. Hope this isn't something everyone has seen.
http://www.neiu.edu/~ayjamess/hmmm.htm#Main
I'm pretty skeptical (just because it was made by some college student it seems).
Very interesting, but I have to be skepical as well.
1) People reported having lost loved ones on the plane that crashed into the pentagon.
2) Are all those people lying?
3) Or was there no plane and the governemtn just killed everyone who was supposed to be on the flight (so that people could mourn) and shot a missile into the pentagon in an attempt to jumpstart the war on terror and find a reason to go to war with Iraq.
Number 3 is the most plausible. Becuase we all kno that all things being equal, the simplest answer is probably the right answer. Welcome to 9/12/2001. =D
Right, i've seen it before and it looks very suspitious. But, we all saw 2 jets hit the WTC. They didn't need to damage the pentagon to go to war. Why would they bomb themselves when it wasn't needed.
Well, the only logical answer is that they did not think the WTC would collapse like it did. Who knows, but I know I'll never find out.
Who said they bombed themselves? As far as we know, it could have been a missile or something that the government doesn't want the public to know about. For example, everyone knows the terrorists can hijack a plane... but if everyone knew that the terrorists had access to guided missiles or some shit that could freak everyone out even more... or something like that...Quote:
Originally Posted by doggz
Although I am not a conspiracy nut, I am very skeptical of our Gov't it has done some shady sh!t in the past. While I am not going to say that definitely there was a conspiracy. If that were to come out as fact I would not be at all surprised.
coughdidntsaddamhusseinhaveguidedmisslescoughQuote:
Originally Posted by elgrkn
"Although I am not a conspiracy nut, I am very skeptical of our Gov't it has done some shady sh!t in the past."
like what?
CIA has rigged elections in a lot of other countries to get people put in power who agree with us, probably aided in assasinations of other world leaders that don't agree with US policy. Our government will always do whatever it thinks it has to to keep our place in the world where it is. If they did cover up some kind of missle, I don't want to know about it. They are covering it up for a reason, and it's probably in our best interest to not know or endevour to find out :P.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedo017
Am I the only guy who kinda doesn't really care?
Sure it's wierd but I've got more important things to worry about then conspiracy theories.
-'rilla
oh, i don't think it was a guided missle, i think it was a plane, but i felt the need to point out that if guided missles spook you, saddam haddam
It's tough to know what to make of everything presented in that video... I usually side against the US Goverment in issues like this, but you've gotta take things with a grain of salt.
The FBI confiscating tapes and not releasing them: that might be stanard procedure, but what could they have to hide? You'd think that if it was truly a plane, showing footage of it could only add to the american peoples' support of war against whoever Bush wanted.
There really wasn't much debris from what everyone saw, no marks on the ground. And that footage from the pentagon security camera did put the top of the plane at aorund 20 feet, which means that it was flying suspisciously low to the ground to have not hit.
I don't put too much faith in most of the eyewitness accounts that say it was like a missile or it sounded like a missile, because I don't beleive that everyone knows what a missile sounds like, even though they do work at the Pentagon. I do give some credit to the guy who said it smelled like cordite from an explosion... he sounded smart. And sexy.
Ultimately, I think that Bush wasn't happy with the new colour scheme in that section of the Pentagon and wanted to rebuild it. Making this not a concern for government consipiracy, but one of insurance fraud.
yawn
haven't seen this video yet
Heh, conspiracy theory. I think it's funny people believe we never landed on the moon or that Bush planned 9/11 as a plot to start a war on "terror"
I saw a video in Physics class about that.
Something about why there wasn't any winding blowing and they were walking around the moon weird.
Ya, I've seen a couple videos like this.
Personally I'd rather not know, not like I can do anything to better my situation.
Alright, motion to lock. Snopes pwn'd all the conspiracy theorists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapogos
-'rilla
Its funny that you all seem so brain washed. You are skeptical of a clear presentation of facts? This is not a lone video, go do some research. I didnt watch this video but I have seen many factual presentations that prove without a doubt that no jetliner hit the pentagon. At the angle at which it would have had to flown, there would have been knocked down power lines, light poles, ect. Also at the angle at which it flew to hit the pentagon RIGHT where it did is quite impossible without messing up the lawn. However the lawn is in pristene condition. Also planes that crash dont just disapear, where is this plane? please explain ... there was enough energy on impact to make everything disinegrate? Yet it made that small of a hole and relatively little damage to the building? That makes very little sense. Do some research on plane crashes, planes dont just disapear. Also, at how many angles did you see the planes hit the twin towers? Ive seen dozens Im sure, dont you find it strange that in a large metropolitan area, in the vicinity of all these tourist attractions and land marks, no one else besides the security camera (horrible quality) caught this 'jet liner' on tape? It wouldnt be that strange except for the fact that so many individuals caught the planes hitting the twin towers. The funny thing is, there have been reports of videos being confiscated for 'evidence' yet no one has seen these 'evidence' videos still. Whats even stranger is that this all happened so fast, as if they knew it was coming.
When there is a murder investigation, the first thing to figure out is who has motivation to commit the crime. Well in this case we have the 'who' that was force fed to us, bin laden. Then we have the other obvious one, but no one dares to point the finger. George W. Bush. Do you understand how much he stands to gain from this war? All his buddies are making millions and billions of dollars right now. And to whoever said they are covering it up beceause they dont want us to panic, thats EXACTLY what they want, they want us to live in fear of terrorist or of sadaam husseins nukes or of north korean aggression. They want us to be scared, scared people flock around thier leader and blindly obey thier commands. Go ahead and think back to what facts you know that support the popular belief of what happened on 9/11 then review the facts the support 'conspiracy theories'. Its about facts people, not belief, the facts dont stand with what the administration is telling us to believe.
Score one for snopes.
Although there is always something to be said for who wrote the truth for snopes to discover. Media is always controlled very tightly by the govermnent.
Boost, read the Snopes article posted it covers all this. But I think vqchuang answered all this pretty easily with good 'ol common sense to begin with. Why? Reasoning suspiciously absent from these conspiracy theorists is how did a flight full of people dissappear? Why would the government shoot a missle at it's military headquarters? When I think back to 9-11 I think of the world trade centers not the pentagon. This was not necessary to jumpstart the war on terrorism.
Yes I second to lock this thread before the paranoia spreads. Elvis lives!!! Oh no! I can feel it taking me...
Good grief. Its good for a laugh though.
I hope you dont believe the government is one entity that is now lesser because of the damage to the pentagon. Its not like Im telling you someone cut off thier finger. The place was largely empty, no one important to the bush administration was in that wing. And you surely dont believe its that hard for someone with emmense resources to make a plane full of people disapear do you? I think people are really brainwashed into believe that bush acts in your best interest. Once again, who has the greatest motivation here? Who stands to gain the most.
Oh and you say "how did they jsut make a plane full of people vanish?!" Thats the exact same question Im asking, how did a huge jetliner full of fuel and people just disapear? where are the remains of the plane? Dont be so quick to laugh and brush something aside as a conspiracy theory. We all know rupert murdock controls almost everything you watch and read interms of news, dont you think he has an agenda? All you guys have been saying is "well why would bush do this" pretty much. WHY WOULDNT HE? he stands to gain so much.
another weird tidbit, bush said in a speach that he watched this happening in florida at that school. Hows that possible? No tape of the planes hitting was broadcasted until hours later, yet he had a live feed of it happening? why would he be watching? Thats just very strange.
oh and can someone link me to this snopes article, did I miss it earlier in this thread?
no evidence of a plane at all, huh boost? did you even read the snopes article? I guess maybe, rather than this being a piece of a plane, it makes more sense that GWB planted it. you're probably right.
http://67.19.222.106/rumors/images/debris.jpg
I made my last post before you made your second post.
HOLY BALLS! You're nuts! I was gonna try to make a rational argument to bring you down to reality, but wowzas what a waste of time that would've been.
ah I see the link now. I dont know, snopes doesnt exactly disprove much, "the wings broke off and folded in towards the fuesslaodge and followed it into the interior of the building" well now thats a great explanation of what happened to the wings, however its backed by no facts. And it doesnt explain the lawn not being touched by the plane. Also he said that lightpoles where knocked down, which might be true, but the force from a jetliner flying that low would flip cars Im pretty sure. Also there is no explanation offered for why in a major metropolitan area no one caught it on tape except that one pentagon camera. Of course there where other videos but where are they? I dont see anything that he proved, he came up with possible scenerios, but not answers. I think snoppes made the story of what happened force fed to us by the media just a bit easier to swallow, however I dont think he proved anything.
truthfully I dont exactly believe either, I just like to argue the lesser represented side. My girlfreind hates when I do it...
But I just think people often close thier minds off to things that are completely plausable and sometimes even blatantly true. Open your eyes, If you are under the impression that the media is giving you the straight up truth, I think you are pretty foolish.
ok, you're restored my faith that you're not big time crazy.
There is good reason nobody else was recording the pentagon: the pentagon is not the tourist attraction that the world trade center is. the government didn't run up to any civilians and grab videos, they only took videos from businesses. there were i think multiple videos of the pentagon made by local places that were confiscated by the government, but all civilian videos of the wtc, and none were confiscated.
and, if the elaborate bush did it thing is true, why didn't bush just make sure that the plane was flied into the pentagon? why fly a missle into it, risk getting caught, and make the plane of people just dissapear risking further getting caught, when he could've just had it hijacked by his own people and flown into the building. Why do it in the first place? If he was already flying planes into the WTC (which, for this all to be true, bush must have flown the planes into the wtc and crashed the one in pa too, right?), why fly a missle into the pentagon?
and also, doesn't it make perfect logical sense that the wings were torn off and flipped inward? that was my very first thought when i heard people saying there was no wing evidence. And also, the plane hit the ground before it hit the building, its possbile the wings were disturbed then, enough so that they didn't have enough force to break through the building, but were attached to the body of the plane strongly enough to get pulled in and through. Its also possible they did break through the building and just nobody ever saw. As you can see, the upper levels of the building collapsed before any clear pictures of the hole were taken.
The reason these conspiracy theories happen is because uneducated people make videos and pretend like they know things, which they then tell other people as fact, and because these people also know no better, they then assume this to be the truth, when its really just a fact invented by some guy in his basement who dropped out of high school and can make videos.
The difference is that you think this is plausable.
...not to mention that you expect cars to flip over from the force of air a plane would make???????????
Wow.
And as for the no plane parts on the grass argument. I want you to do an experiment. Take a watermelon, and throw it at 400 miles per hour at a slight angle at the ground. Mark where it lands, and mark where the first piece of debris is. I think this assumption that planes leave debris instantly is retarded. When something is moving 400 miles per hour, doesn't it make sense that the majority of the debris would be carried forward after it hit the ground? You think stuff goes from 400 mph to a dead stop is more realistic than it all got carried forward? come on.
The people who create conspiracy theories like these are all the same: people like michael moore, kanye west, celebrities, and other high school dropouts.
The plane crashes that were shown in that video were from planes crashing at an angle much greater than the angle of the plane that hit the pentagon. This means that the up-and-down component of the force AND mommentum of the plane is significantly smaller.Quote:
Originally Posted by boostNslide
Cant get image to work. It's basically a 45 degree angle vrs a 5 degree angle.
With a lot of energy purposly being lost in the crushing of structure on the bottom of the aircraft it's not SO absurd that the plane wouldn't damage the lawn.
And I still don't understand what happened if it wasn't a plane. And why it's easier for you to believe that the gov't would kill a plane full of people for a coverup than the plane was piloted by a terrorist and a great portion of the debris was destroyed in the massive fuel fire.
But the most important thing is, what are you hoping to accomplish by carrying this argument on? Is it going to impeach Bush. Will it somehow make future presidents better than Bush?
-'rilla
Yes, rilla is correct here. There have been tests on planes vs structures like the pentagon and the plane disinigrates. They are small random scraps but the rest in completely gone.
Or the better real world test. The trade centers. Where was all the debris there? It doesn't just immediately drop out of the sky on impact. It flies into the building and is disintegrated in the emense fire/explosion which follows.Quote:
Originally Posted by doggz
And Boost, your argument still doesn't support why Bush would fly a missle into the pentagon. You said he has so much to gain. What exactly? Risk everything just to make an exclamation point to the trade center attacks? Things would have continued the same without the pentagon attack as they have with it. The pentagon was a footnote in this whole story. You could easily twist facts as the missle theory supporters have to say it was a charging elephant loaded with explosives but there's still no reason why.
And I think you overestimate the government's ability to cover things up. You're talking about shutting up all pentagon personelle that witnessed, all forces involved in the aftermath, getting rid of the plane which "supposedly" hit, it's passengers, and getting all their loved ones to clam up? To think you could fool the world into thinking something was hit with a missle and not a large jet is laughable.
All major media is controlled but to a point. This was a major even covered by more than just US media and the government cannot shut down everyone else.
Bush has no idea.
He is just the show window.
Trying to figure his I.Q is like trying to make a handshake with an ant.
Hope u guys watch Fahrenheit 9/11 already.
Anyone ever search what kind of files do they keep there ?
PS. Land on moon was also fake but thats another story
dude you're right.
how's the studying going for your GED?
Michael Moore is a piece of shit, that is all.
Yea he maybe is.
But George Bush and those who elect him are more than this.
The whole world laugh on them.
Facts on Fahrenheit 9/11 are true.
P.S. Pictures .... of land on moon was also fake ... but thats another story
There was a car in Rio De Janeiro that flipped from a 737 jet. I saw a news clip of it, shown on Mythbusters.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricE
But that was from a non-moving plane... a plane moving forward at 350 km/h wouldn't have nearly as much force on a stationary object.
I hope ur just trying to be funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannerBoy
Michael Moore is a retard.
Go find the other side of hte story!
Its all rigged, just like online poker.
Nah i really dont want to involve at this.
I really dont care about politcs.
I just say how the things are in the world.
Everyone is pissed with usa goverment and there "terrorist-war" and the role of the "protectors of peace" and the role of "earth-police" they took without anyone give them.
No i dont try to be funny. I saw , and heard Bush make so many blunders.
If u have another side of story i would like to hear it.
I would like to hear for example why he spend 42% of his 1 year as chairman on vacation and not in white house.
Again , i really dont care. Nothing against my friend americans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapogos
I dont have all the answers, I dont spend my life researching this stuff, but if you cant see how much bush has to gain from the whole 9/11 thing in gerneral you are blind. His freinds have made millions and billions of dollars from the iraqi war and the war on terror. I dont know Im not saying its a missle, Im not even saying that any of this is true. Im not saying this is a govt orcistrated attack on itself. But the less extreme 'theory' would be that they allowed this all to happen. They knew what the plan was and instead of foiling it, they let it happen knowing what the results would be. Once again Im not saying this is the truth, I just think that since we all know the media is controlled by the powers that be, its hard to be a thinking person and not atleast entertain the idea that the media is lying to you. And if you are willing to be that open minded, how can you reject believing that it is possible that the opposite of what they are telling you is true? Or somewhere inbetween. Just be open minded and stop happily accepting everything that the propaganda machine pumps into your mind.
If you never at any point thought it possible that online poker was rigged... well good for you, ignorance is bliss. I now understand that its not rigged and why its so easy to think it is when you are uneducated on the subject. However with things happening in the world, you cant really prove it either way for the most part. So I resent the fact that you likened me to the guy sitting at the 25nl party table losing buy in after buyin saying its rigged. If you want to blindly believe in everything that you are told, good for you, but I was raised to question the logic and morality of things, not just blindly agree with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ihategnomes
Oh and Im done discussing this, because all it boils down to is a political discussion, which goes nowhere. Believe what you want, vote for who you want, Ill respect you just the same, I just might not agree with you. I only ask the same from you. Just be open minded and dont be so judgemental of people who have different views than you.
Oh and michael moore is a propaganda machine just like bush, there is stuff in his movie that he knew was not true at press time. Hes just the other side of the coin, so dont call him a quack hes just fighting fire with fire. And what is wrong with kanye west? If you truly believe racism is gone in this country, and that New Orleans is not a blatant display of how racist our society still is then you are living in a fantasy world....
we don't think you're crazy for entertaining the idea that other things than the media says might be true, or for having an open mind. we think you're crazy because enough evidence to conclusively show these theories are wrong has been presented, and you still don't believe it. The world says 2+2 = 4. You say, what does 3+3 =? The world shows you a proof that it is 6, and you're saying back NO ITS 5 YOU CLOSED-MINDED HEATHENS.
But, boost at least i respect you because even though i disagree with you, you try to make an argument for your side, i just think that the evidence against you is overwhelming. mannerboy is the more typical liberal that i absolutely despise, the type who just says what they hear on cnn and is like "oh bush stole the election, and gave money to his friends, it was a war for oil, he can't speak good, he lies a lot! the world is out to get me! the men in the pink suits are following me! AHH!"
jesus I said I woudlnt respond anymore, but here I go...
Greedo lets not bring the facts back but, we all read the same thing, I still dont think that enough facts where shown to prove it either way. And as far as liberals spewing catchphrases, thats one of the biggest criticism of the average conservative. They just repeast catchy phrases from bushes speaches. But truthfully I think these people are the majority on both sides. They are not thinking individuals, they just rehash stupid phrases that have been pumped into thier heads. But dont get it twisted, anyone who does this whether you agree with them or not should be viewed as the same. I know that no matter what thier views are, if they cant form a solid thought and express it in thier own words, but they can go on for hours repeating what they have heard, they make me sick.
and dont be mean to manner boy, english isnt his first language so it might be a bit difficult for him to convey his thoughts in this language.
how about instead you jump on EVERYONE who is just repeating what bush has said? Cuz there are plenty more of those in this thread.
I found the snopes article to be a little flimsy as well, but here is another one that clears it up even better...
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/..._evidence.html
and, sorry boost i'll drop this now. yes, i agree that people on both sides who don't bother to understand anything and just repeat catchphrases are wrong. i guess its just in my own personal life, the people that i know, the democrats are the catchphrasers and the republicans are the educated ones, so that's just a personal bias.
and, i didn't mean to be mean to mannerboy, i was just saying i don't like catchphrasers, i obviously can't tell from just a message or two whether he is one or not.
Super good article. That definately covers it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by storm75m