Wtf - only breaking even at party NL $25

After reading how fishy and easy the party nl $25 cash games were, I decided to take a break from PS sngs and whore partyskins for bonuses. I have now played for 1½ weeks on empire and partypoker (while clearing 2 deposit and 1 reload bonus), but I'm only breaking even regarding my play at nl $25 (I have a profit tho, but thats only from bonuses). I simply dont understand why I'm only breaking even. I was told if you quadtable and camp on good hands and play them aggressive, you WILL turn a profit, because of all the fish. I'm almost absolutely sure that it is not variance - I have had some bad beats, and made a couple of bad calls, but its not that I'm running bad in terms of bad beats and cold cards.
I have thought about this, and I think there are mainly 2 reasons why I'm only breaking even.

1. When I catch a monster hand I dont get payed off enough. I heard ppl are fishy a party, but heh, thats not my experience this far. The fish are willing to call ½potsized bets with hands I beat, but rarely any bigger bets. Its hard to drop the fucking hammer with around potsized bets, when the only hands that will call you are hands that have you beat.

2. I think I play at the wrong time of day, when theres not enough fish playing. I play around 19.00-01.00 CET, with is around 12-13.00 to 18-19.00 in the states. Most of the ppl who play at Party are americans, and I can imagine that all the fish play in the evening, while its mostly more experienced players and bonuswhores (who multitable and camp) that play at other times. So maybe I just play at the wrong time of day, when the fishies arent playing. I have noticed that the later i play in the evening the more fishy the tables get - I'm not sure if this is just a coincidence tho.

Anybody who has any thoughts on this? Maybe some of the Euro players who also play at party (estrop or anyone)?


PS: anybody got any tips on table selection? I join the tables with the highest average pots (>$8), and I quit a table if its full of TAggs and campers.

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Originally Posted by Robert

PS: anybody got any tips on table selection? I join the tables with the highest average pots (>$8), and I quit a table if its full of TAggs and campers.

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I dont play party, but the player per flop is an important figure aswell. Though if my memory is working i think party doesnt tell you that!?

No party doesnt show that

you can use poker tracker to keep an eye on it for you, its an important thing in table selection.. you want a high players per flop %, which would suggest a loose table. If you have a low % then the table is probably going to be a bit of a drag to play at.. you can work it out from watching though.. if theres lots of preflop raising i dont hang around to much.. for full ring i want to have lots of limpers that are prepared to call preflop if i raise.

I've been breakeven for the past 4 days at 25nl. What's your point?

Don't drop the fucking hammer. You value bet your monsters. You can value bet a lot of hands. I basically value bet everything.

-'rilla

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I've been breakeven for the past 4 days at 25nl. What's your point?

Don't drop the fucking hammer. You value bet your monsters. You can value bet a lot of hands. I basically value bet everything.

-'rilla

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Mastering how to extract maximum value from your opponent while losing the minimum is an art form, and furthermore what the game is all about. Rilla is right, you sound like a guy on a prom date who finished before he started when the girl got naked. You're getting way to excited when someone calls a bet, and then raising the stakes on the turn improperly when they are unlikely to call a lot.

Value betting is actually one of my weaknesses, but you really shouldn't splash the pot unless you feel your opponent has something strong that you're beating, or your opponent is drawing to beat you.

Rilla playing 25$ NL ? why u moved up ? DONT PLAY OUT OF UR BR U NIGGA

damn right, i wanna see you back at 1c/2c limit and i strongly advise you read the bankroll management thread

KNOW THY OPPONENT...

Yes, the 25NL party tables are way fishier between 5 - 12 pm EST...

Since it's so well known that 25NL on party is the aquarium, I find there are plenty of wanna-be sharks there as well (including myself). I know it's tough to get reads multi-tabling full ring, but in each hand you should really figure out if you're playing against a shark or fish, and adjust accordingly. Although playing straight forward will get the job done most of the time, well timed check raises, semi-bluffs, blocking bets and other plays that disguise your hand will go a long way.

And I agree with above, 1/2 - 2/3 pot bets will work fine almost everytime. In every situation, when you have a monster, you have to figure out the max amount they may call. Dropping the hammer ususally will make an opponent fold, therefore your opponent is making the correct play, and you are losing money even though you won the pot. (yes, I'm reading Theory of Poker right now) Only time I bet more is on a big semi-bluff, or when I know someone has a good second best hand.

Breaking even while clearing bonuses is not a bad thing at all, especially at the swingy 25NL aquarium. Good work.

I think over what, 2100 hands(for 3 bonuses), variance can limit you to break even or losing poker even for good players. Be glad you have the bonus cushion.

Of course go over the HH and see where you can improve, but just keeping the bonus is not a bad result. Then again, if you're not adjusting from SNG strat to ring strat, that could be a problem.

Thx for the replies.

My point tho wasnt so much that I was "only" breaking even after only a short time of play (yeah I know, the subject of the post says something else) - my point was that the ring games at party nl $25 wasnt so fishy as I expected them to be (I expected a lot after reading all the praises in this forum about "the big aquarium" and "drop the fucking hammer" against the fish at party). I was curious about if I just played in the wrong time of the day.

Regarding valuebetting, I have learned that dropping the fucking hammer only works when you are almost sure your opp has a second best monster - so no Rondavu, I'm not acting like the guy on his prom date :) Mostly I just try to get the most out of my hands by valuebeting, slowplaying, checkraising etc - and yes it is an art to get the most out of your hands.

i've been sitting at parcticularly loose tables and am about up 125$ in last 3 days. just play tagg with maniacs, i like limit at low levels a little more because fish always feel pot commited to call down with A high or try to bluff at you with nothing. you can also mold peoples play with your play, like raising way more hands than you should, people will start to only play strong hands against you.