How to play low limit when constantly 3 bets or more

I have absolutely no idea how to play against a maniac table where it is consistently 3-4 bets just to see the flop, with over 65% of players seeing it. For example I am currently reading "small stakes hold'em" and Sklansky says with suited connectors you need to see the flop for one bet. He says with few exceptions, you can't overcome your preflop advantage if you have to pay two or more bets to see the flop.

Since high pairs are not good in multiway pots, I doubt it's very profitable playing them either. Should I just play big suited broadways? If so, then I'll be playing so few hands that the blinds will probably cost me too much.

So how should I play in this type of game? Is it possible to win in this situation?

Cheers.

I play it the same way. Sure you'll be playing less hands, but when you do win a pot, it will be huge.

I play many more suited connectors and suited Ax if I can see flops for one or 2 bets given I only put 2 bet in at a time or there are like 5 cold callers in front of me... I gambol with drawing hands a lot more; you have a higher EV when the pot is large with those hands...

I mean i do that in LP, button or CO maybe MP3...

Thanks. Could you go into a bit more detail sharkbait. For example, would you play high pocket pairs and big/little unsuited broadways assuming still that it's 3-4 bets preflop? With about 6 people seeing the flop I doubt big pairs would hold up.

pokerfanatic01, are suited connectors and small pocket pairs still profitable with 3-4 bets though? From what I know I don't think they are but I could be wrong.

Although they don't hold up as much, you still want to see QQ, KK, AA when you look at your hole cards and you want to cap the betting with them. These will still be the hands that win the most pots and make the most profit for you.

A big factor in your hand selection preflop is how the table plays post flop. If most of these players are folding on the flop and the aggression eases off, then you can't gamble with speculative hands. You will lose your money fast. If there is lots of action post flop, you can gamble it up for a profit with straight forward poker. One thing I would do is compare the average pot size when 5 or 6 see the flop to what you expect it to cost you to see the flop. If the average pot is more than 12X (preferable about 15X) what it will cost you to see the flop, you can safely play suited connectors 78 and higher and any pocket pair from any position. You need to be smart about this though ... if its occasionally only 2 or 3 handed to the flop, you need to fold these hands to a raise in EP and make your decision in MP and LP by how many people are already in the pot. You don't want to call a raise UTG+1 and then have everyone fold but the BB when you have 22. You will make most of your money by flopping sets, OESDs and flush draws and with KK and AA. The value of overcards goes way down with so many people seeing the flop. be very very careful with hands like AJo, KQo. Don't even bother playing hands like ATo, KJo, QJo. All those hands will do is increase your variance or lose you money at a table like this. And speaking of variance, be ready for it ... you will need much more BR at a table like this than at a 'normal' table. But play smart and you will clean up ... a table like that is a great opportunity.
Do you find these tables online? If so, where?

Thanks alot Xanadu that was very helpful :) . I'll definitely take that into account next time I'm at a table like that. It's a pretty extreme example but I was mainly talking about the play money tables at pacific poker and to a much lesser degree the .05/.10c tables.

By the way, do suited connectors have about the same chance of flopping a flush draw or open ended straight draw as pocket pairs have of flopping a set? I haven't been able to find the odds on this anywhere and I think it's a pretty important stat.

Cheers

Ok, the only one I could find online is chances of flopping a flush draw, which is about 11%. But I did a quick approximation of the other relevant probabilities. These should definitely be accurate to within 5%. When I say 5%, I mean if I say the probability is 10%, it lies somewhere between 9.5% and 10.5%, not 5-15%. The inaccuracies are on the plus side because I ignored duplication in the sums of probabilities for several cases. So, actually, If I say it's 11%, it's actually a little bit lower, but not by much.

Another important consideration ... I did the calcs for a middle suited connector, say 87s. JQs and above, and 43s and below will have a smaller chance for straights because there are fewer possible straights to make with those hands. An 87 can make twice as many straights (J,T,9,8 high) as 32 (6 and 5 high). This is one of the reasons you really don't want to play 43 and 32, although there are exceptions ... If I am on the button and 7 players limp, I'll play these suited.

So, you have a suited connector ... 54s-JTs. Your probability of flopping:
A flush draw: 11%
An OESD: 11.75%
2 pair: 2.2%
trips: 1.5%
full house: 0.2%
quads: 0.06%

This all adds up to a little better than 1 time in 4 you will have a favorable flop. As a rough approximation, you will take the pot about 1 time in 3 when you get a favorable flop. So, as a very conservative guideline, you will win 1 in 12 hands with suited connectors and therefore want implied odds of 11:1 to call with them preflop (Remember that I said you want the average pot to be about 12X your investment to see the flop?).

When you play a low/mid pocket pair, your chances of flopping a set are about 12%. You will win with that set about 80% of the time, so do a little math, and you will find that a suited connector and a small pocket pair are pretty close in value and should be played close to the same way. One difference that gives a slight edge to the pp is that when you hit the flop you will have a very strong made hand, and most of the time when you hit the flop with the connectors, you are on a draw.

All of these estimates and recommendations are on the conservative side, and meant only to give you an idea of what you have and what you can expect with these speculative hands. I would rather you play them too seldomly than too often, because playing speculative hands too often is a big leak in many people's games.

If you are serious about playing good poker, I would recommend not playing the play money tables unless you just want to get a feel for a site's interface. The play money tables only possible value for learning is for the loosest maniac tables which you are much more likely to find on a Saturday night at a B&M casino (and still not too often there).

I'll probably do a much more accurate, in depth analysis of this soon in the future. I'm sure it's out there somewhere (let me know anyone if you have a link or a book?) but I haven't seen it. I know there are others like me that like to see the math and not just a starting hands chart.

Thanks again Xanadu, that is exactly what I needed to know! Although many books recommend how many people you need to enter the pot to be able to play suited connectors, none of the ones I've read give you even the faintest idea of the odds of hitting a draw and/or winning.

So therefore you don't get the full picture of when you should play them and are kind of playing blind. I'm really glad I have some info to go on now :D.

I look forward to your future analysis if it ever comes to be.

Cheers

A very minimal amount of profit comes from suited connectors, they are just good hands in certain situations (table limps and youre on the button with 67s), get in there.