Playing the angles..

I have a question about a play I made today in online poker. I didn't save the HH, but its not too important to the question at all.

Delt to me: AQo
I raise to 4xBB.

Everyone but the BB folds and the flop comes AA8. He bets and I call. Turn A. He checks, I check behind him. River is an 8. He checks, and I pause for 3 seconds, then ask the chat, "Hey, if we both have just whats out there, do we just split the money?", to which everyone pokes fun and says yes. At this point, after waiting for a "yes", I push all in, and he immediatly calls. Of corse I won the pot, about 35 bucks, but I suppose my question is, how morally wrong is this, and would any of you done it?

You played the player, they fell for it...I see nothing wrong in it.

They should have been able to tell what you were doing.

haha nice strat right there I'll remember to do that when it counts one day online. But no I don't think that was morally wrong. I'll tell you what is, I was at my usual weekly at my friend Matt's a few weds ago. I had the final table dominated out of the total 325,000 chips in the tournament I had about 275,000 and the other guy heads up had the rest.

Well I brought my girlfriend in from the living room to watch the head's up action, and there was a guy to my right watching too at the table, he had already been eliminated and was getting a massage from the girl who serves us drinks and massages, so I didn't think anything of him.

Well as we started heads up I start losing hands, thinking nothing of it, after a while my girlfriend looks around the table then startings tugging at me, wanting to tell me something. I told her to hold on because I was trying to concentrate, well she became even more aggressive tugging at me and was trying to whisper in my ear. Even still I didn't let her whisper because I didn't want the people to think I was cheating because she was watching the other guy I was going up against heads up.

Well I took second to my dismay and took home 660.00 from that and 350.00 from the cash games that we played afterward. We get in the car and she's upset with me and I say what did you need to tell me, she said "the guy behind you on your right was watching your hole cards and signaling the other guy with his nods to whether or not you had a real hand". I was extremely pissed because I had just got cheated he took 1st and took 1320.00.

So I call Matt the next day because those two guys were fairly new to playing there, nothing really happened to the guys because I told him I wanted them to continue playing there so next time I can whip him, but I guess karma has a way of working things out because Matt said he lost 700 in the cash game after I made my 350.00 and split.

You're a low-down, dirty-rotten, angle shooter, but I think it was brilliant. Online poker prevents most angles you can shoot, but in my opinion that wasn't morally wrong. Something out of a sitcom maybe, but not unethical.

Now, in a B&M casino or home game, you might get your arse-kicked depending on the angle you shoot. String-bets, playing out of turn, etc. I don't think you're risking much by talking to most opponents/dealers though.

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Originally Posted by shawnE

haha nice strat right there I'll remember to do that when it counts one day online. But no I don't think that was morally wrong. I'll tell you what is, I was at my usual weekly at my friend Matt's a few weds ago. I had the final table dominated out of the total 325,000 chips in the tournament I had about 275,000 and the other guy heads up had the rest.

Well I brought my girlfriend in from the living room to watch the head's up action, and there was a guy to my right watching too at the table, he had already been eliminated and was getting a massage from the girl who serves us drinks and massages, so I didn't think anything of him.

Well as we started heads up I start losing hands, thinking nothing of it, after a while my girlfriend looks around the table then startings tugging at me, wanting to tell me something. I told her to hold on because I was trying to concentrate, well she became even more aggressive tugging at me and was trying to whisper in my ear. Even still I didn't let her whisper because I didn't want the people to think I was cheating because she was watching the other guy I was going up against heads up.

Well I took second to my dismay and took home 660.00 from that and 350.00 from the cash games that we played afterward. We get in the car and she's upset with me and I say what did you need to tell me, she said "the guy behind you on your right was watching your hole cards and signaling the other guy with his nods to whether or not you had a real hand". I was extremely pissed because I had just got cheated he took 1st and took 1320.00.

So I call Matt the next day because those two guys were fairly new to playing there, nothing really happened to the guys because I told him I wanted them to continue playing there so next time I can whip him, but I guess karma has a way of working things out because Matt said he lost 700 in the cash game after I made my 350.00 and split.

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happened to me before..

if you known about it, dont look at your cards and just play based off of what your opponent does.

I'll never make the same mistake twice that's for sure. I plan on playing in a tournament this sunday with him in it. I can't wait to beat him down in poker of course :twisted:

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Originally Posted by Element187

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Originally Posted by shawnE

haha nice strat right there I'll remember to do that when it counts one day online. But no I don't think that was morally wrong. I'll tell you what is, I was at my usual weekly at my friend Matt's a few weds ago. I had the final table dominated out of the total 325,000 chips in the tournament I had about 275,000 and the other guy heads up had the rest.

Well I brought my girlfriend in from the living room to watch the head's up action, and there was a guy to my right watching too at the table, he had already been eliminated and was getting a massage from the girl who serves us drinks and massages, so I didn't think anything of him.

Well as we started heads up I start losing hands, thinking nothing of it, after a while my girlfriend looks around the table then startings tugging at me, wanting to tell me something. I told her to hold on because I was trying to concentrate, well she became even more aggressive tugging at me and was trying to whisper in my ear. Even still I didn't let her whisper because I didn't want the people to think I was cheating because she was watching the other guy I was going up against heads up.

Well I took second to my dismay and took home 660.00 from that and 350.00 from the cash games that we played afterward. We get in the car and she's upset with me and I say what did you need to tell me, she said "the guy behind you on your right was watching your hole cards and signaling the other guy with his nods to whether or not you had a real hand". I was extremely pissed because I had just got cheated he took 1st and took 1320.00.

So I call Matt the next day because those two guys were fairly new to playing there, nothing really happened to the guys because I told him I wanted them to continue playing there so next time I can whip him, but I guess karma has a way of working things out because Matt said he lost 700 in the cash game after I made my 350.00 and split.

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happened to me before..

if you known about it, dont look at your cards and just play based off of what your opponent does.

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I notice you live in orlando too, you should come and play in our tournament one day?

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Originally Posted by shawnE

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Originally Posted by Element187

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Originally Posted by shawnE

haha nice strat right there I'll remember to do that when it counts one day online. But no I don't think that was morally wrong. I'll tell you what is, I was at my usual weekly at my friend Matt's a few weds ago. I had the final table dominated out of the total 325,000 chips in the tournament I had about 275,000 and the other guy heads up had the rest.

Well I brought my girlfriend in from the living room to watch the head's up action, and there was a guy to my right watching too at the table, he had already been eliminated and was getting a massage from the girl who serves us drinks and massages, so I didn't think anything of him.

Well as we started heads up I start losing hands, thinking nothing of it, after a while my girlfriend looks around the table then startings tugging at me, wanting to tell me something. I told her to hold on because I was trying to concentrate, well she became even more aggressive tugging at me and was trying to whisper in my ear. Even still I didn't let her whisper because I didn't want the people to think I was cheating because she was watching the other guy I was going up against heads up.

Well I took second to my dismay and took home 660.00 from that and 350.00 from the cash games that we played afterward. We get in the car and she's upset with me and I say what did you need to tell me, she said "the guy behind you on your right was watching your hole cards and signaling the other guy with his nods to whether or not you had a real hand". I was extremely pissed because I had just got cheated he took 1st and took 1320.00.

So I call Matt the next day because those two guys were fairly new to playing there, nothing really happened to the guys because I told him I wanted them to continue playing there so next time I can whip him, but I guess karma has a way of working things out because Matt said he lost 700 in the cash game after I made my 350.00 and split.

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happened to me before..

if you known about it, dont look at your cards and just play based off of what your opponent does.

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I notice you live in orlando too, you should come and play in our tournament one day?

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not if people are cheating :lol:

whats the buyin usually ?

Like I said those two were the newbies there. But normally everyone is great at the tables. The buy in ranges from 80 to 250 buy in 2 tables 22 people max. You start with 16k in chips which can be seen here www.orlando-upc.com The blinds start pretty low and go up every 20 mins.

Today's tourny is 150 buy in first gets 1320 2nd 660, 3rd 394 I think, 4th 264 I think. Then $2 - 5 no limit cash games after wards buy in min for that is $100 bucks max $300. He's not accepting new players right now because he is in Hawaii and his partner is running the game while he is away.

But for more info his name is Matt his email is [email protected] Tell him shawn E sent cha if you decide to give us a try.

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Originally Posted by shawnE

haha nice strat right there I'll remember to do that when it counts one day online. But no I don't think that was morally wrong. I'll tell you what is, I was at my usual weekly at my friend Matt's a few weds ago. I had the final table dominated out of the total 325,000 chips in the tournament I had about 275,000 and the other guy heads up had the rest.

Well I brought my girlfriend in from the living room to watch the head's up action, and there was a guy to my right watching too at the table, he had already been eliminated and was getting a massage from the girl who serves us drinks and massages, so I didn't think anything of him.

Well as we started heads up I start losing hands, thinking nothing of it, after a while my girlfriend looks around the table then startings tugging at me, wanting to tell me something. I told her to hold on because I was trying to concentrate, well she became even more aggressive tugging at me and was trying to whisper in my ear. Even still I didn't let her whisper because I didn't want the people to think I was cheating because she was watching the other guy I was going up against heads up.

Well I took second to my dismay and took home 660.00 from that and 350.00 from the cash games that we played afterward. We get in the car and she's upset with me and I say what did you need to tell me, she said "the guy behind you on your right was watching your hole cards and signaling the other guy with his nods to whether or not you had a real hand". I was extremely pissed because I had just got cheated he took 1st and took 1320.00.

So I call Matt the next day because those two guys were fairly new to playing there, nothing really happened to the guys because I told him I wanted them to continue playing there so next time I can whip him, but I guess karma has a way of working things out because Matt said he lost 700 in the cash game after I made my 350.00 and split.

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From homepokertourney's "house rules":

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No cheating! Remember, a Smith & Wesson beats five aces!

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Originally Posted by shawnE

Well I took second to my dismay and took home 660.00 from that and 350.00 from the cash games that we played afterward. We get in the car and she's upset with me and I say what did you need to tell me, she said "the guy behind you on your right was watching your hole cards and signaling the other guy with his nods to whether or not you had a real hand". I was extremely pissed because I had just got cheated he took 1st and took 1320.00.

So I call Matt the next day because those two guys were fairly new to playing there, nothing really happened to the guys because I told him I wanted them to continue playing there so next time I can whip him, but I guess karma has a way of working things out because Matt said he lost 700 in the cash game after I made my 350.00 and split.

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Two things, one you should be aware at what's going on around you IMO but maybe I'm super paranoid for not trusting my environment like that. But still, protect your hole cards. He can't see what you have without being super obvious and getting busted by everyone in the room.

Two, kick the living snot out of him when you find out what happened. Screw playing him later and making your money back.

I could do that but what would it solve? I wouldnt' get my money back, and it's only money I believe in Karma especially in something like poker, like I said the difference from 1st and 2nd that day was $700 and he lost that exactly before he even left, while I took an extra $350 in 3 hands back to back and got up and quit with that profit.

I believe if I don't let these things stress me out and just shrugg them off it'll help me take bad beats and worse situations later in my poker life.

But in retrospect I will always protect my hole cards from now on.

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Everyone but the BB folds and the flop comes AA8. He bets and I call. Turn A. He checks, I check behind him. River is an 8. He checks, and I pause for 3 seconds, then ask the chat, "Hey, if we both have just whats out there, do we just split the money?", to which everyone pokes fun and says yes. At this point, after waiting for a "yes", I push all in, and he immediatly calls. Of corse I won the pot, about 35 bucks, but I suppose my question is, how morally wrong is this, and would any of you done it?

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Depends on your opponent. What you did is not considered cheating its called acting. Anyone who knows good poker will realize your acting and dissapoint you by doing the opposite of what you want.

It's pretty damn dirty. It's easy to do online, but in person? That might be tough. In live games I don't even advertise my bluffs anymore because people get so freakin' mad and it makes for a really awkward playing experience. You want people to be having fun and playing passive.

Doubt it was nessisary, so if you feel bad about it just shove silently -- they're likely to call anyway if they think you're playing the board. If you don't feel bad about it, super.

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Originally Posted by shawnE

haha nice strat right there I'll remember to do that when it counts one day online. But no I don't think that was morally wrong. I'll tell you what is, I was at my usual weekly at my friend Matt's a few weds ago. I had the final table dominated out of the total 325,000 chips in the tournament I had about 275,000 and the other guy heads up had the rest.

Well I brought my girlfriend in from the living room to watch the head's up action, and there was a guy to my right watching too at the table, he had already been eliminated and was getting a massage from the girl who serves us drinks and massages, so I didn't think anything of him.

Well as we started heads up I start losing hands, thinking nothing of it, after a while my girlfriend looks around the table then startings tugging at me, wanting to tell me something. I told her to hold on because I was trying to concentrate, well she became even more aggressive tugging at me and was trying to whisper in my ear. Even still I didn't let her whisper because I didn't want the people to think I was cheating because she was watching the other guy I was going up against heads up.

Well I took second to my dismay and took home 660.00 from that and 350.00 from the cash games that we played afterward. We get in the car and she's upset with me and I say what did you need to tell me, she said "the guy behind you on your right was watching your hole cards and signaling the other guy with his nods to whether or not you had a real hand". I was extremely pissed because I had just got cheated he took 1st and took 1320.00.

So I call Matt the next day because those two guys were fairly new to playing there, nothing really happened to the guys because I told him I wanted them to continue playing there so next time I can whip him, but I guess karma has a way of working things out because Matt said he lost 700 in the cash game after I made my 350.00 and split.

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Wow, my gf would beat me if I ignored her the whole game like that

"there was a guy to my right watching too at the table, he had already been eliminated and was getting a massage from the girl who serves us drinks and massages, so I didn't think anything of it"

Now THATS a home game! We need to get a girl like that for ours!