Help with junk hands

By the way, I think this forum is better than any poker book I've read. I've learned a lot so far.

My question is regarding junk hands. I think the hands that I've been mixing it up with are REALLY junk.

Can someone tell me the good junk hands? The ones with big implied odds potential. I read an earlier post that low connectors and one gappers are good. But how low do they need to be?

Is 8T a good junk hand? (it's one of my favorites) Or is it more like just mediocre.

I probably have to get down much lower like 68 to be sneaky, right?

What do you do when the flop comes out rags and you have high pair with your junk hand? Is that hitting the flop? Or is that still considered to have missed? The pf raiser will fire again, so do you call? Raise? Let it go?

Thanks.

t8 is definately a junk hand, but it's also the junk hand I don't like.

I will play junk every once and awhile, but I like playing 34 45 56 67. Cards that can hit monsters or miss completely. I work them in position at the right times and it makes opps question my play and what my holdings could possible be.

I wouldn't play them outside of advanced play, though.

Good junk is any suited connectors or one gappers from 45 or 46 up to 9J/TJ. Above that they stop being junk, of course, and become borderline-premium. You want to hit flushes or, ideally, well-hidden straights. Any straight using both of your cards is a good hand that should pay off well if anyone else has anything. One-gappers are slightly less likely to make straights, but when you hold 79 and the board is A586x, you can make a killing.

I mostly play suited connectors and one gappers. I will play some offsuit stuff in the cutoff or button if it's very cheap and the cards are higher; also if Im playing offsuits, I prefer connectors over one-gappers to increase my odds on hitting the straight. 78o, 89o, 9To, and TJo are some junk hands like that that I'll play in late position. 46o, 57o - no. But the same hands suited, maybe.

It's best if you can get in a big pot with a lot of limpers, or call a reasonable raise with at least one or two more callers involved. And the later position, the better, because you won't have to worry about a raise behind you if you call the first bet on a draw.

Here is the thing with junk hands. Any unmade hand is junk hand. AK is a junk hand preflop because it is an unmade hand just like 56s. The only advantage that it has over 56s is the Ace high. One good tip I could give you to play junk hands is take the lead in the hand when you play it and try to play it in late position. By raising preflop with them and putting out a continuation bet on the flop no matter what you hit (or not hit) give you a very good chance of winning with the hand.

By the way, by experience I try to stay away from 8T because alot of the times when when you do hit your str8 8-Q someone else has a better one because the str8 deals into the face cards and alot of people play theses cards. I try to stay in the 9 high str8s and so on.
tell me what you think.
later

I like low connectors like 23 / 45 because if you hit the A2345 straight and someone else has an A you can get payed off pretty well.

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Originally Posted by dalecooper

I prefer connectors over one-gappers to increase my odds on hitting the straight.

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How much less chance does, lets say, a 2 gapper have of hitting the straight then connectors have?

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Originally Posted by doggz

t8 is definately a junk hand, but it's also the junk hand I don't like.

I will play junk every once and awhile, but I like playing 34 45 56 67. Cards that can hit monsters or miss completely. I work them in position at the right times and it makes opps question my play and what my holdings could possible be.

I wouldn't play them outside of advanced play, though.

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Yeah, I'm thinking about not playing T8 anymore. I want to go lower with my junk hands. I hate hitting a set with T8 and getting outkicked.

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Originally Posted by dalecooper

Good junk is any suited connectors or one gappers from 45 or 46 up to 9J/TJ. Above that they stop being junk, of course, and become borderline-premium. You want to hit flushes or, ideally, well-hidden straights. Any straight using both of your cards is a good hand that should pay off well if anyone else has anything. One-gappers are slightly less likely to make straights, but when you hold 79 and the board is A586x, you can make a killing.

I mostly play suited connectors and one gappers. I will play some offsuit stuff in the cutoff or button if it's very cheap and the cards are higher; also if Im playing offsuits, I prefer connectors over one-gappers to increase my odds on hitting the straight. 78o, 89o, 9To, and TJo are some junk hands like that that I'll play in late position. 46o, 57o - no. But the same hands suited, maybe.

It's best if you can get in a big pot with a lot of limpers, or call a reasonable raise with at least one or two more callers involved. And the later position, the better, because you won't have to worry about a raise behind you if you call the first bet on a draw.

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I actually did make a killing last night with 79o on the button when I flopped 865. I dragged four callers to the turn with their draws, and wound up cracking a guy's trip 6's. I got way lucky of course, but it more than paid for the blinds I wasted on other junk hands that night.

I never really considered suited connectors to be junk 67 and above. I thought those were pretty damn good, lol!

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Originally Posted by res1cue

One good tip I could give you to play junk hands is take the lead in the hand when you play it and try to play it in late position.

By the way, by experience I try to stay away from 8T because alot of the times when when you do hit your str8 8-Q someone else has a better one because the str8 deals into the face cards and alot of people play theses cards. I try to stay in the 9 high str8s and so on.
tell me what you think.
later

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I do raise with junk in late pos, but I want to raise with better junk now. Hence the post. I don't do it very often, because I have to maintain a fairly tight image. Last night, I didn't do it once because NONE of my continuation bets worked. It was so annoying. Someone would always catch a hand and reraise me. When I did hit, everyone would fold. It happened more than 10 times last night on a TIGHT table. So I changed tables to a loose one and camped, only raising premium hands for the rest of the night.

And yeah, I think I'm going to go lower with my junk hands. I never really have a problem with the ignorant end of the 8T straight (only KT beats it). I usually get myself in trouble when I flop top pair with 8T. If I go lower, I stay out of that tricky situation.

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Originally Posted by Irisheyes

I like low connectors like 23 / 45 because if you hit the A2345 straight and someone else has an A you can get payed off pretty well.

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Originally Posted by dalecooper

I prefer connectors over one-gappers to increase my odds on hitting the straight.

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How much less chance does, lets say, a 2 gapper have of hitting the straight then connectors have?

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Good advice, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Irisheyes

How much less chance does, lets say, a 2 gapper have of hitting the straight then connectors have?

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Example?
T9 can be part of the following straights:

• 6789T
  789tJ
  89TJQ
  9TJQK

4 possible straights, though the last one is dodgy.

T7 can be part of the following straights:

• 6789T
  789TJ

2 possible straights, and the 2nd one is bad because it can be beaten by a plausible QT.

Generally, the gapped hands can get bigger payoffs, because 'who whould have kept T7? No one. ALL IN!' ----- 'XXXXING FISH YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY!!!1111'. But it may not happen enough to pay you off long term. If you do happen to hit outside the blinds, it can put a table on it's ear. 'But it was sooted.'

i started dropping my 2 gappers.. when i first started with playing LAG, i was playing a huge range of hands and been cutting it down quite a bit.

when i first sit down at a table, i start off very tight aggressive, as i start getting used to the table after an hour or so, i start migrating to the LAG style of playing. that usually helps me earn a little cash before i start lagging it up and learn the texture of the table and players.

most important for playing these "junk hands" you must have position, CO or button and get away from them soon as you miss the flop (which will happen alot)

also keep in mind, dont get involved in hands preflop were there is a raise and a reraise preflop, even if you have a low pocket pair.. i know its common sense, but i see alot of people posting hand histories where they call raises and reraises with 22 to 66, and suited connecctors.. i shake my head, that is pure suicide.

Hey Check, hows the life of a pro going?

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Originally Posted by res1cue

AK is a junk hand preflop because it is an unmade hand just like 56s.

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what a bunch of horseshit. AK has incredibly high +EV and ace high is often the best hand pre and post flop.

i fail to understand the problem that the original poster is trying to solve here. you should not be playing ANY "junk hands" if you are still learning the game (other than button steals). 80% of the learning process is training yourself to play tight. you sound like you are trying to make excuses for playing loose. nobody should loosen up their starting requirements at the bottom levels of poker. that's for the higher stakes.

ChezJ

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Originally Posted by Element187

i started dropping my 2 gappers.. when i first started with playing LAG, i was playing a huge range of hands and been cutting it down quite a bit.

when i first sit down at a table, i start off very tight aggressive, as i start getting used to the table after an hour or so, i start migrating to the LAG style of playing. that usually helps me earn a little cash before i start lagging it up and learn the texture of the table and players.

most important for playing these "junk hands" you must have position, CO or button and get away from them soon as you miss the flop (which will happen alot)

also keep in mind, dont get involved in hands preflop were there is a raise and a reraise preflop, even if you have a low pocket pair.. i know its common sense, but i see alot of people posting hand histories where they call raises and reraises with 22 to 66, and suited connecctors.. i shake my head, that is pure suicide.

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Thanks, Element. I was hoping you'd respond because it was one of your posts that I read earlier about junk hands.

In the last two weeks, I started limping in LP with low one gappers and occassionally two gappers. It hasn't worked out for me at all. I'd mostly miss, occassionally pick up a draw that I have no business playing, etc. When I do hit, I rarely get paid off. I think the only way I can get this to work is to call moderate raises with them when I know that my opponents will have a hand to fire out at me. But this is just too chancy and not worth the money it will siphon from me. I'm just not at the point where I can play these consistently and win.

Although I still play all suited connectors in LP and occassionally a suited one gapper. And every once in a while on a tight table I'll raise with one of these junk hands if there aren't many limpers already and I'm on the button.

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Originally Posted by midas06

Hey Check, hows the life of a pro going?

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Lol, I'm hesitant to even answer this question. Just to set the record straight, I'm not REALLY going pro, just trying to make enough to get by while I look for a great job.

To answer your question though, it's only going okay.

I've been keeping my bankroll even and then pocketing whatever money I make beyond my bankroll (I spent the first two weeks just trying to get my bankroll even). I've heard that I should instead pay myself an hourly wage, but I don't want to lower my bankroll until I know I can actually do this. My monthly nut is a little less than $2,000. I've only pocketed $800 so far, but my bankroll is currently even. I've won $2,000 in one weekend before, hopefully I can hit another rush before the month is through. But anyway, thankfully my finanical situation isn't too dire. I can last until the winter before I have to start using my bankroll. Hopefully I won't have to settle for a crappy job before that happens.

Thanks for asking though.