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I am a former sng player who has been trying his hand at ring games, as I think I can make more long term there. However, the transition from tourneys to ring games is a peculiar one. Any tips for a tourney player looking to become a ring player?
Here's an example of what I mean: In sng's, repping a missed flop had become automatic for me. In ring games, however, I seem to be getting check-raised a lot more.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Well I just did the exact same thing. I used to play strictly SNG's, but have now discovered the profitable world of ring games. And what a joy they are. I'm not sure what you're bankroll is or what limits you want to play. I play alot of $.25NL, average pot can be around $5 and you wont go broke on a horrible day. But you can easily make over $100 a day playing these tables. At least I have.
I start out playing tight aggressive. Always coming strong preflop if you have a decent hand, I'm talking 6x big blind. Someone will always call to test you at first. You'll win a nice starter pot. Always bet bigger on the flop like 8x, no matter whether you hit it or not. Stay aggressive. Most people at these levels aren't the best players. Eventually your agressiveness will piss people off and they will call you out of frustration or they will leave the table. Either way you'll build you're bankroll. There will always be a few solid players at a table and you'll be able to spot them easily, so just mind them, and go after the fish who take up the rest of the seats.
In SnG's, people are focused on survival, the blinds, their stack size. You spend at max 45 minutes with any one of them, and then you're gone. In a ring game, people get to know you more. The focus is on your tendencies. The solution is to mix it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockymv
Don't rep every flop. What happens is the good players begin check raising you especially if you only raise broadways and then bet a rag flop. They are telling you to knock it off. You combat this by raising a couple of connectors or rag hands and showing them that any flop can potentially hit your hand hard.
The basic principal is that you can't fall into a betting pattern. Act erratic at times for the sake of confusion without hurting your pile. If you are at a table with me and I recognize you're playing too tight, I'm going to avoid paying you off. You won't see me in hand with you unless I can hurt you. On the other hand, if you act like a maniac here and there, I'll be more inclined to pay you a little when I hold a weaker hand.
Look man. You start to get a good feel for when you should rep a missed flop, and when you should check behind with experience. To me it just sounds like you haven't developed a gut yet.
For me, SnG's used to be easier than cash games. Cash games really develop your skills. Once you get good enough, you start making more at cash than SnG. You probably won't do as well for a while though. Just keep at it.
Folding post-flop is most important thing to do in the ring.
The more money you save in folding post-flop translates directly into profit.
I lose more money on AA and KK lately in ring than any other hand.
When the money is deep, bet for information NO MINI BETS! If you have someone play back at you strong lay it down unless you got a monster.
Play, play play play play play. Practice makes perfect (discounting bad beats).
Only way to improve is buy in small and work your way up.
Some tourny strategy still applies. Limp with the big implied odds hands when the situation allows like the small pp's and suited connectors. Apply the gap concept and don't call raises with trash like K10o but do call standard raises with the small PP's.
It is good to rep a hit flop even when you miss and the tactic picks up a lot of small pots and allows you to tread water while you wait to hit a monster. However, when you do hit the monster, remember to continue to rep the flop. The same guy that check raised you w/ TPGK will now pay you off when you flop the set.
This is encouraging to me, as it was kind of my suspicion. Getting a feel for when to make that big turn bet seems to be a big issue for me. Sometimes you can take down a big pot with it, but if it doesn't work it can hurt bad. So far I've probably lost more money on big continuation bets on the turn than anywhere else. I've also been pushing TPTK too hard and long, something you can get away with more (not to say its the correct move) in a tourney setting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
Also, when I played SNG's I played the 55+5 turbos. I have been playing the $200 max buy in on Stars.What kind of bankroll do you need for ring games? How many max buyins? I assume this depends on how many tables you're playing at once.
Thanks for the advice guys.
I go by the 15 buy ins rule. Seems to work pretty well to not be demolished by variance.
Sounds about right. I want about 20 myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassin
I used to play SnGs only and did ok at them.
I had the occasional dabble with a cash game and got burnt pretty bad and promised myself at the time that i would avoid them.
But, for some reason or other, i started playing them again about 6 months ago...and been quite successful.
I think it's because I was very aggressive in SnGs, constantly pushing people of pots. I dived straight into cash games with the same style and got lost my stack very quickly the first few times.
When I revisited, I was playing a little more tentatively (maybe playing a little scared) and only showed real aggression on strong hands. this worked.
Now, as somebody mentioned earlier, I seem to have developed a "gut" for when to be aggressive and when to be cautious. The only way is up for me now.
I was just about to make a similiar post. I've been doing good at the $20 sng's but yesterday and today bubbles out 4 times. I play ring once in awhile if I don't have the time to do a tourney. So today I sit down at the .25-.50 with $50. Amazingly people are buying in with like $13, $30. WHen I first sat down there were only two people with $7 and $13 respectively. In a matter of 4 hands I was up $20. Then I just played like I do when I'm the big stack in a tourny, loosening up occasionally when in position, leaning hard on the small stacks and I was at $100 in about 20 minutes. I'm sure it was just a good run. But sometimes I had cards sometimes I didn't and it went great.
So basically what I'm asking is, is playing the big stack the same as in a SNG profitable normally and over time or did I just have a good session? What are the main things I need to leave at the SNG table and not bring to the Ring table? (I'm aware as in a sng that doubling up that fast is not usually going to happen. My question is about how to approach the game.)
So basically what I'm asking is, is playing the big stack the same as in a SNG profitable normally and over time or did I just have a good session? What are the main things I need to leave at the SNG table and not bring to the Ring table? (I'm aware as in a sng that doubling up that fast is not usually going to happen. My question is about how to approach the game.)[/quote]
I used to play the bully a lot with big stack in cash games. And, as you described, this sometimes works. but what i used to find happening more often is that all the hard work i put in to get the big stack would be undone very quickly and my stack would start shrinkng at a rapid pace.
What i tend to do now when I'm big stack is play my usual game but with an extra level of aggression when I have a strong hand. Make people think you are bullying. This way the stack seems to keep on growing.