QQ goes multi-way to the flop

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06-20-2005, 05:41 PM

QQ goes multi-way to the flop

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

Button ($23)
SB ($23.35)
BB ($26.8)
UTG ($5.5)
Hero ($24.75)
UTG+2 ($24.65)
MP1 ($17.4)
MP2 ($22.2)
MP3 ($47.35)
CO ($177.17)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q:spade:, Q:club:. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2, 1 fold, CO calls $2, Button calls $2, 2 folds.

Flop: ($10.35) 5:heart:, 7:diamond:, J:heart: (5 players)
Hero....

This one confused me somewhat, table is loose/passive, 2 of the callers here are tight/passive though. How much do you bet on the flop, and why?
06-20-2005, 08:51 PM
H Dogg

I lead out with 4-6 dollar bet right here. This lets the fish know you got something and still invites an AJ call. I dont think this is a hand you want to see the river with.
06-22-2005, 02:54 PM
EssWhyKay

Quote:

Originally Posted by H Dogg

I lead out with 4-6 dollar bet right here. This lets the fish know you got something and still invites an AJ call. I dont think this is a hand you want to see the river with.

Not enough. Betting $4 into a $10+ pot will just invite many people chase. Frequently in low limit online poker, bets like these set off a chain reaction of callers, leaving you in the dark about where you stand.

You also can't just randomly put a single person on AJ. You're more likely to receive calls from a plethora of drawing hands. This board is too draw heavy to bet less than half the pot. I'm betting $8 to protect my hand and discourage everybody from calling.

And nobody else thinks 8xBB is too much for a preflop raise?
06-22-2005, 03:45 PM

Here's what I did:

Flop: ($10.35) 5:heart:, 7:diamond:, J:heart: (5 players)
Hero bets $10, MP1 calls $10, MP2 calls $10, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: ($40.35) 3:club: (3 players)
Hero calls $12.75 (All-In), MP1 calls $5.40 (All-In), MP2 calls $10.20 (All-In).

River: ($68.70) T:diamond: (3 players, 3 all-in)

Final Pot: $68.70

Results in white below:
Hero has Qs Qc (one pair, queens).
MP1 has Jc 8c (one pair, jacks).
MP2 has Kc As (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins $68.69.
06-22-2005, 04:02 PM
dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwarfman

Here's what I did:

Flop: ($10.35) 5:heart:, 7:diamond:, J:heart: (5 players)
Hero bets $10, MP1 calls $10, MP2 calls $10, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: ($40.35) 3:club: (3 players)
Hero calls $12.75 (All-In), MP1 calls $5.40 (All-In), MP2 calls $10.20 (All-In).

River: ($68.70) T:diamond: (3 players, 3 all-in)

Final Pot: $68.70

Results in white below:
Hero has Qs Qc (one pair, queens).
MP1 has Jc 8c (one pair, jacks).
MP2 has Kc As (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins $68.69.

Those look like some tough opponents. I love players who can't fold a whiffed A-K.
06-22-2005, 04:10 PM
CrunchyNuts

Who were the tight/passives? The guy with AK?
06-22-2005, 04:35 PM
Zangief

Quote:

Originally Posted by EssWhyKay

And nobody else thinks 8xBB is too much for a preflop raise?

8xBB = $2 is just how it is done at PartyPoker NL$25. You get no respect for raising anything less than that ... and often very little respect even for that raise (as you can see here).

I would bet $8-$10. You probably have the best hand and you want to charge people for their draws. If someone has AA or KK or a set or 2 pair, you might have to go broke here.
06-22-2005, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zangief

Quote:

Originally Posted by EssWhyKay

And nobody else thinks 8xBB is too much for a preflop raise?

8xBB = $2 is just how it is done at PartyPoker NL$25. You get no respect for raising anything less than that ... and often very little respect even for that raise (as you can see here).

I would bet $8-$10. You probably have the best hand and you want to charge people for their draws. If someone has AA or KK or a set or 2 pair, you might have to go broke here.

I agree with this, and this is the play I would always make (betting out the pot on the flop). But this particular hand made me wonder because if I did bet out on the flop I would get myself possibly over-commited to a hand that I had been outflopped on.

I guess my play worked out.
06-22-2005, 07:13 PM
ChezJ

nice scoop, bro. question: how much would you have bet out on the turn if it had been a :heart:?
06-22-2005, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChezJ

nice scoop, bro. question: how much would you have bet out on the turn if it had been a :heart:?

That's exactly why I was reluctant to bet the flop out pot sized. If the turn would've made the flush, it would've been VERY tough to call. I might have pushed anyway and prayed, I have $12 left and the pot is $40.

But it's so tight, this is exactly the reason I'm not sure about my play on this hand.
06-22-2005, 11:57 PM
EssWhyKay

Alright, makes sense. I'm a Stars player. 4xBB works fine over there.
06-23-2005, 12:18 PM
Rondavu

Over at Pokerchamps 10/20 cent blinds is a $10NL table. $25NL has 25/50 cent blinds. Is it different at Party?
06-23-2005, 12:28 PM
Zangief

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Over at Pokerchamps 10/20 cent blinds is a $10NL table. $25NL has 25/50 cent blinds. Is it different at Party?

Yes, Party max stacks are 100 times the big blind. So NL$25 is $.10/$.25 blinds. They changed this several months ago - it used to be 50 times the big blind.
06-23-2005, 12:36 PM
Zangief

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwarfman

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChezJ

nice scoop, bro. question: how much would you have bet out on the turn if it had been a :heart:?

That's exactly why I was reluctant to bet the flop out pot sized. If the turn would've made the flush, it would've been VERY tough to call. I might have pushed anyway and prayed, I have $12 left and the pot is $40.

But it's so tight, this is exactly the reason I'm not sure about my play on this hand.

And what if someone (with a similar stack size) reraised you all-in on the flop?

I think all the money is going in on this hand no matter what. There's no way out of it.