Drama @ AP

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac

I haven't read the latest news yet, but I'll be really surprised if this hurts them so much that they are gone by Xmas.

I'm not a betting man btw.

What could possibly hurt more than "the owners" stealing money directly from players ?

AP admits their system was compromised : http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...fpart=all&vc=1
_________________________________________________

Just posted at P5s.

PocketFives just received a phone call from Absolute Poker confirming the suspicions of the online poker community over the past month. While we need to be vague in this post to respect their wishes, we can say that their systems were compromised, and that they are prepared to provide the details in a statement coming shortly.

Part of the statement will include a plan to refund players affected by this compromise.

We are extremely relieved to hear this outcome, as our most important goal in all this is to see justice given to those who were cheated in this process. Pocketfives is extremely proud to have played a part in the process of uncovering the impropriety that has occurred. We would of course like to thank all the other parties who played a key role in this process—specifically the folks that have been posting here and at twoplustwo.com.

This is great news for everyone. Keep your eyes out for the statement.

Extremely Relieved,

--Adam
____________________________________________

This is so funny in light of AP's original response and the result of their first 'Investigation'. I'm sure they will find a way to spin it and keep on ticking though. Obviously it's going to hurt them, but an admission of guilt, a little contrition and some promotions and they'll keep going IMO. There's plenty of fish in the sea for AP.

the bet i wanted to make is that they will go out of business!

Originally Posted by givememyleg

the bet i wanted to make is that they will go out of business!

OK, GMML....$1k is 1/3 my bankroll so I'm not up for that high of a bet. I will bet you $100 though. We cannot make this a bet that goes on forever so we need to agree on a timeframe. I say 6 months is fair. So, here's my proposal: $100 says AP will not go out of business within 6 months. Name change, buyout, merger DO NOT count. Out of business means they go broke, shut down operations and they take off with the $. I'm willing to ship my $100 to Cardsman1992 to hold for 6 months....agree?

Ap will shut down and move there operations to UB. The already own it and were about to absorb it after taking so much of the software style in the last update. They have shared banking and free transfers between accounts. The only thing they ahdn't started is shared tables yet. So your bet has too many outs.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

Ap will shut down and move there operations to UB. The already own it and were about to absorb it after taking so much of the software style in the last update. They have shared banking and free transfers between accounts. The only thing they ahdn't started is shared tables yet. So your bet has too many outs.

"out of business" means broke to me. If they just change their name or combine with UB then that is something completely different. I would also be willing to accept a bet based on traffic...meaning if peak traffic goes down to less than 1/3 of current numbers then I am willing to accept that as failure as well. I see about 21k when I log in around 7:00 - 8:00 PM PST so less than 7k at peak would be the same as failure in my mind.

If you guys haven't done already, write a review for AP on this site. Let's try to get this room down at the bottom, it sure shouldn't be anywhere near the top of the rankings given the state of AP.

Click here to post your thoughts and review Absolute Poker!
Please use ftr as the user name and review as the password.

That will never happen, because more than half of those numbers are free accounts. All sites include the free tables in their numbers, they do not distinguish between the two. I don't think you understand what is happening here. AP is done, they are going to admit that they were wrong. They have no way to appease the high stakes players that their site is safe anymore. The big money is gone. Only way to go is off the radar. UB is there best and only choice. Who would ever go play under the AP name after what is their second and biggest scandal to date.

Originally Posted by djzcko

Originally Posted by givememyleg

the bet i wanted to make is that they will go out of business!

OK, GMML....$1k is 1/3 my bankroll so I'm not up for that high of a bet. I will bet you $100 though. We cannot make this a bet that goes on forever so we need to agree on a timeframe. I say 6 months is fair. So, here's my proposal: $100 says AP will not go out of business within 6 months. Name change, buyout, merger DO NOT count. Out of business means they go broke, shut down operations and they take off with the $. I'm willing to ship my $100 to Cardsman1992 to hold for 6 months....agree?

This is what I was looking for. I'll take action on AP staying in buisness.

im up for AP being bigger and better once all the regs leave now theyve admitted to what has ahppened.
Also, restores faith that legislation WOULD prevent this stuff happening if the US govt regulates.

i think they're stepping in the right direction now.. let's see what they're official statement will be that p5s said they were going to release in the next few days

Frontpage of MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

And in case it leaves the frontpage: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21381022/

HUGE publicity. And the article claims that Scott Tom is being framed

from the CARDPLAYER website

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news...ecurity-breach

stupid msnbc article. first line is "In a case that illustrates the perils of online betting,..." the guy has no clue.

Originally Posted by zook

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21381022/

This sucks. They hired themselves to audit themselves?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21381022/page/2/

"Absolute Poker states on its Web site that it is owned by Tokwiro Enterprises Enrg., located in Kahnawake Mohawk territory nine miles south of Montreal, Quebec. Tokwiro is described as a Mohawk owned and controlled sole proprietorship. The site also is licensed and ostensibly regulated by the tribe’s Kahnawake Gaming Commission, though it is not clear what level of scrutiny the commission applies to its licensees."


EDIT: nvm.. they hired Gaming Associates to do the audit. My bad... just trying to catch up on everything.

Anything that comes from Absolute should be suspect, because of their first denial of cheating and now admittion of it.
Now there saying the cheater tried to frame Scott Tom, this is BS, they need to fuck off and just close shop.
To try and insult the poker players inteligence like this has just taken it to the next level for me.

This is Just like Micheal Vick saying he had nothing to do with the Gambling and Dog killing, and then doing a 180 and saying he found Jesus, even before he went to jail.

Every Poker player should be very pissed off at this.
I say Bring the Ban Hammer out on Absolute!

LOL

GG Absolute Pokah, this statement is a joke...

October 21, 2007

Dear AP Player:

I am the former Grand Chief of the Mohawk Territory of Kahnawake and the owner of Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG, which holds a 100% interest in Absolute Poker.

As many of our players are aware, there has been a security breach in our system that allowed unlawful access to player information that resulted in unfair play. I am writing to you today to let you know what we know so far in order to set the record straight, and to assure you of AP’s commitment to player security. I am sure that this letter will not address all of the questions and concerns you may have, nor will it extinguish the heated discussion surrounding this issue. At this point, our intention is to let you know all we can disclose and to assure you of our continued efforts to keep you informed as best we can as the investigations continue.

We deeply regret this situation has occurred. A breach in security in online poker is serious and of great concern to players and the industry worldwide, and this particular situation has been the subject of debate within the poker player community and in the media, giving rise to the creation of several websites and hundreds and hundreds of comments, opinions, and theories of what occurred – some of which are accurate, and some that are not.

Like you, I have not been happy that during the initial stage of our investigation, AP has not been more forthcoming in providing a timely or comprehensive explanation on this matter, giving rise to anger, suspicion, and concern on the part of our valued customers. I hope that our customers can appreciate that this remains an incredibly complex and sensitive issue, and I want to give you my strongest possible assurance that we will be as forthcoming as possible on how this breach occurred and what we are doing to remedy the situation.

What We Know and Actions We Have Taken

AP was notified by a customer that a possible cheating incident occurred during a recent tournament, and in response forwarded players’ hand logs. This disclosure of the hand logs prompted our customers to determine that a more serious security breach had occurred. We immediately launched an internal investigation and also requested a formal audit by Gaming Associates, an acknowledged world-wide expert in audits, interactive gaming tests, and information security.

Based upon our preliminary findings, it appears that the integrity of our poker system was compromised by a high-ranking trusted consultant employed by AP whose position gave him extraordinary access to certain security systems. As has been speculated in several online forums, this consultant devised a sophisticated scheme to manipulate internal systems to access third-party computers and accounts to view hole cards of other customers during play without their knowledge. As this consultant was aware of the details of our fraud detection process, the likelihood that the scheme would be uncovered through our normal procedures was minimized. We consider this security breach to be a horrendous and inexcusable offense.

We will pay for all losses suffered by the affected players as soon as our audit is finished and the amounts are determined. Although we are in the process of attempting to recover all the winnings of this consultant, any unrecovered losses of affected players will be paid by Absolute Poker so that all affected persons will be made whole.

Next Steps

We are still investigating whether the consultant was acting alone or in concert with others, and it appears at this time that all account holders are innocent of collusion and were unaware of any wrong-doing by the consultant, who was immediately terminated. We continue to investigate this matter aggressively, and all of these preliminary findings are subject to the audits currently underway. We have recently uncovered additional accounts used by the consultant that have not been publicly reported. So as to not compromise the investigation, we are not releasing the names of these additional accounts at this time, and will contact these affected customers individually.

The specific allegations of unlawful activity are being investigated both by AP and by the authorized authorities, including the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. We will continue to actively cooperate with these authorities in full compliance with the Regulations Concerning Interactive Gaming. In addition to our own investigation and the audit by Gaming Associates, we have also submitted to an audit by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission.

Please be assured that we have corrected the problem that allowed the system to be unfairly manipulated. We are working furiously to increase the safeguards within our systems. While we are satisfied that our systems are secured, we realize that our security systems must be continuously monitored and enhanced.

Without question, this incident has been unfortunate for all concerned, and we will emerge as a stronger company. I realize it will take some time and much more information for AP to re-earn the trust and confidence of our customers who are in doubt of our commitment to the highest levels of security, privacy and integrity. As we move to address and correct this situation, our valued customers have played a vital role in uncovering this scheme through various online forums and have become an active part of the solution.

With my full sincerity, I thank you, and I promise to keep you updated as we bring this situation to a close.

Sincerely,

Joe Norton

wrong-doing by the consultant, who was immediately terminated.

Hasta la Vista Baby! Anyway, what a shambles. Money withdrawn, AP uninstalled. I won't be back.

1/2 is still full, no one is actually doing anything. My problem is depositing 5k to play and then losing it. although the numbers on tables suggest AP is no way near going busto, they'll be 'raking' it in nicely, although there never was any 5/10nl+ action before and still isnt (even though it has the best structure being able to buy in 200bbs deep)

any other new developments?

*some* of the regs know about the crisis, most dont know and dont care

Ive been spreading the word in the chat box.

i thought the statement was fine, what more could they say?

This statement says nothing.

If ap refunds the money and closes the hole, there is no reason to shun them from the poker community. They fucked up, they know they fucked up, and theyre going to try and make it right.

We didn't boycott stars or party when the JJProdigy and others found a security hole and used it to win more MTTs. Not quite as egregious a cheat, but a cheat nonetheless. They closed the holes and returned the monies and all was well.

Its their Denial, deny deny deny, oops we fucked up, point the finger at someone approach that pisses me off

Eupho: You know there's a huge difference between the Absolute situation and the jjprodigy and zeejustin multi-accounting scandals at Stars. At Absolute, senior officials, most likely the #1 and #2 in charge (according what Adanthar and N 82 have posted on 2p2), were the ones doing the cheating. That's barely comparable to players making multiple accounts and entering them in the same tournament. And there's been nothing but lies and coverup attempts coming from AP. If it wasn't for a whistle-blower inside Absolute and the hard work of a few 2p2ers, nothing would have come of this. Instead AP and their management are irrevocably tainted by this mess.

I think FTR and the online poker community should boycott Absolute until they come forward with ALL of the information. Not just until they return money and say that they "closed the hole". They should tell us who did the cheating and what legal action is being taken against them. Or tell us why the laws of such-and-such a country make it impossible to take legal action against them. Absolute needs to come totally clean, and from the sounds of things on 2p2, their business is way too shady for that to ever happen. So boycott I say, boycott.

Originally Posted by zook

Eupho: You know there's a huge difference between the Absolute situation and the jjprodigy and zeejustin multi-accounting scandals at Stars. At Absolute, senior officials, most likely the #1 and #2 in charge (according what Adanthar and N 82 have posted on 2p2), were the ones doing the cheating. That's barely comparable to players making multiple accounts and entering them in the same tournament. And there's been nothing but lies and coverup attempts coming from AP. If it wasn't for a whistle-blower inside Absolute and the hard work of a few 2p2ers, nothing would have come of this. Instead AP and their management are irrevocably tainted by this mess.

I think FTR and the online poker community should boycott Absolute until they come forward with ALL of the information. Not just until they return money and say that they "closed the hole". They should tell us who did the cheating and what legal action is being taken against them. Or tell us why the laws of such-and-such a country make it impossible to take legal action against them. Absolute needs to come totally clean, and from the sounds of things on 2p2, their business is way too shady for that to ever happen. So boycott I say, boycott.

QFT!!

^^^ Agreed

They are (somewhat) coming clean now after a lot of denial and outright lies. Once they found out they couldn't sweep this under the rug they started coming clean about the cheating and now talking about paying back players.

Absolute Poker is rotten to the core and it's just easier if they die and go away instead of them trying to "clean up" and gain our confidence back.

Just when you thought you heard it all...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ge=0&fpart=all

My God if that is true, it is absolutely sickening...

Point-Spreads.com sources in Costa Rica are claiming the Absolute Poker Super-User account scam has been going on for three years and the actual amount that was skimmed from online poker players is estimated at close to $7 million, not the 700k amount that was previously reported. The actual amount is still unknown as an internal audit is underway.

Of course it isn't 100% confirmed and could just be libel.

How reliable is that source?

Originally Posted by grnydrowave2

How reliable is that source?

Not very from what I've read, but if true that is truly stunning...

7 million is alot, but it isn't alot at the same time..

I heard Harry Potter had an account there too


ITS GOSSIPY BS

Wow I sure wouldn't want to be the guy who f_cked up a massive, legal revenue source for the Mohawks. Those guys do not screw around and take things very seriously.

If I were a superuser I'd be running and hiding, but not from poker players or the law.

From what I have read on 2p2, it feels like this scam has been going on "quietly" for some time and was blown by one moron out of several co-conspirators. The Mohawks may be the least of his worries.

Ok so is there an update lately? I was thinking of whoring AP and Vegas 24/7 for their sign-ups, and I'm wondering what the situation is like for that network. Is there any reason not to play there right now if you don't care that there are cheaters at high stakes? Also, if anyone knows, how easy is it to clear their full $500 bonuses at 10nl or 25nl? Would 20k hands of 10nl do it?

holy hell I was gonna say go look at bonuswhores.com but they removed those sites....

dayamn

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Is there any reason not to play there right now if you don't care that there are cheaters at high stakes?

Ummmm, because you don't want to give business to a company whose management personally stole millions of dollars from its customers and then tried repeatedly to cover it up?

WTF is wrong with the online poker world? AP's business hasn't slowed at all since the scandal broke. It makes me sick.

Originally Posted by zook

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Is there any reason not to play there right now if you don't care that there are cheaters at high stakes?

Ummmm, because you don't want to give business to a company whose management personally stole millions of dollars from its customers and then tried repeatedly to cover it up?

WTF is wrong with the online poker world? AP's business hasn't slowed at all since the scandal broke. It makes me sick.

lol i knew this would come up. i play poker for money. i want to do whatever will make me the most money. whoring 2 absolute sites' sign-ups helps me achieve this goal.

and yes spenda bw.com has blacklisted absolute and co. pretty big move by them.

A line has to be drawn somewhere. What if every site begins to pull of these stunts?

There HAS to be integrity in the game, you can always get your fish elsewhere

martin: In your mind, what keeps poker sites from cheating players?

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

you can always get your fish elsewhere

easy for you to say non-american

Originally Posted by zook

martin: In your mind, what keeps poker sites from cheating players?

cuz they are afraid to lose all of their business if found out. i know i know...if everyone keeps playing at sites that cheat then there is nothing to stop the sites from doing it any longer. me playing there will not affect the situation at all though. sooo does anyone know how easy/hard it is to clear the full $500 bonus at 10nl or 25nl?

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

you can always get your fish elsewhere

easy for you to say non-american

lol, touché


however, last I checked, UB was chockful, as was PS, as was Bodog

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

you can always get your fish elsewhere

easy for you to say non-american

lol, touché


however, last I checked, UB was chockful, as was PS, as was Bodog

lol ub is terrible. ps is nothing compared to ongame/pacific/etc. and bodog doesn't take epassporte. absolute is the fishiest site for americans according to many many players. sign-up bonuses and rb are available at 2 rooms on the network. i am not passing this goldmine up while it is here for the taking. also, anyone been to doyle's room yet since they re-allowed americans?

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

sooo does anyone know how easy/hard it is to clear the full $500 bonus at 10nl or 25nl?

I hear it's impossible.

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

...if everyone keeps playing at sites that cheat then there is nothing to stop the sites from doing it any longer. me playing there will not affect the situation at all though.

Actually it will, you would be contributing to the problem. Are you like 17 years old?

I'll say boldly, anyone who knows the story of what happened at AP and still plays there is fucking retarded.

I wonder if the fish factor will be higher there now? If all the players with a clue abandon the site, all that will remain are the fish.

I seriously doubt anyone is/would bother to cheat at the micro limit games. It might be profitable at the lower levels, for those of us who play down there.

That said I doubt I'll bother. I don't have an account there, and there are hundreds of sites to choose from.

If you have a trouble finding fish at micro limit games you have bigger problems.

According to PokerSiteScout there are 42 tables going at 25NL full ring and 65 tables at 6max on Full Tilt (where you can get rakeback). I couldn't imagine not being able to find 6-10 tables soft tables.

Originally Posted by I Like Pie

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

...if everyone keeps playing at sites that cheat then there is nothing to stop the sites from doing it any longer. me playing there will not affect the situation at all though.

Actually it will, you would be contributing to the problem. Are you like 17 years old?

It's like when people say they don't vote bc their one vote doesn't matter. People like to tell them that if everyone thought that way then we'd have a big problem. Well that's true but in reality everyone will never think that way and their one vote does not matter and does not affect anything in any significant way. Me playing at AP will not affect anything in any significant way. Nothing changes if I play there and nothing changes if I don't.

Originally Posted by I Like Pie

If you have a trouble finding fish at micro limit games you have bigger problems.

According to PokerSiteScout there are 42 tables going at 25NL full ring and 65 tables at 6max on Full Tilt (where you can get rakeback). I couldn't imagine not being able to find 6-10 tables soft tables.

That's where I play. You should try it for a decent sample size. You will be amazed. I used to think the same thing but FT microstakes is amazingly filled with nits and normally the only fish around are those with like 20bb's.

Originally Posted by arborman

I wonder if the fish factor will be higher there now? If all the players with a clue abandon the site, all that will remain are the fish.

Exactly! Game selection is one of the most important parts of poker. We should always be playing to make the most money possible. Absolute is the fishiest site around for americans, has rb, and has a sign-up bonus. I am losing money by not taking advantage of it.

martin...do you really play $10nl and $25nl? I thought you were playing $100nl last I checked. What happened?

And BTW, it will take you about 200 hours of 4 tabling SH $25nl to clear the full bonus @ AP. It is very slow...

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

It's like when people say they don't vote bc their one vote doesn't matter. People like to tell them that if everyone thought that way then we'd have a big problem. Well that's true but in reality their one vote does not matter and does not affect anything in any significant way. Me playing at AP will not affect anything in any significant way. Nothing changes if I play there and nothing changes if I don't.

You're right. One vote will never matter in a large election and your personal decision to play or not play at AP will never influence their actions.

BUT you're posting in a public forum. And by spouting off your opinion that poker players should have no conscience about who they give money to and should blindly follow their wallet, you are (perhaps unintentionally) influencing other people's decisions. If 10+ people read this thread and conclude, "Wow, AP sucks but those FTR regs make good points about the bonus and the fish, I'm going to start playing there", that could make a difference.

That's why it's crucial for online poker players, rakeback affiliates and sites like FTR and 2p2 to actively boycott and blacklist AP until this whole mess is resolved. There's no regulation or policing of the online poker industry. Collectively, we are the police. Which is scary.

If you choose not to play at AP, and in any trivial way try to convince others to do the same, then your decision WILL count. Perversely, if you selfishly choose to play there but publicly denounce the company and anyone who gives them business, that would be better than not playing and keeping your mouth shut

Originally Posted by I Like Pie

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

...if everyone keeps playing at sites that cheat then there is nothing to stop the sites from doing it any longer. me playing there will not affect the situation at all though.

Actually it will, you would be contributing to the problem. Are you like 17 years old?

I'll say boldly, anyone who knows the story of what happened at AP and still plays there is fucking retarded.

Im here to make money, wheres your argument?

nice post zook.

Originally Posted by djzcko

martin...do you really play $10nl and $25nl? I thought you were playing $100nl last I checked. What happened?

And BTW, it will take you about 200 hours of 4 tabling SH $25nl to clear the full bonus @ AP. It is very slow...

thanks for the reply. 200 hrs of sh 4-tables is like 60k hands or so? well i will be 8-10 tabling full ring most likely (they do allow that many tables right?). ya i did play 100nl. i cashed out right after the us legislation went through and didn't play for about 6 or 7 months. i'm now rebuilding.

and zook you made a good post there. for the record i am not alright with ap's actions regarding the cheating or the cheating itself. if it is selfish of me to play there right now then so be it.

Originally Posted by zook

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

It's like when people say they don't vote bc their one vote doesn't matter. People like to tell them that if everyone thought that way then we'd have a big problem. Well that's true but in reality their one vote does not matter and does not affect anything in any significant way. Me playing at AP will not affect anything in any significant way. Nothing changes if I play there and nothing changes if I don't.

You're right. One vote will never matter in a large election and your personal decision to play or not play at AP will never influence their actions.

BUT you're posting in a public forum. And by spouting off your opinion that poker players should have no conscience about who they give money to and should blindly follow their wallet, you are (perhaps unintentionally) influencing other people's decisions. If 10+ people read this thread and conclude, "Wow, AP sucks but those FTR regs make good points about the bonus and the fish, I'm going to start playing there", that could make a difference.

That's why it's crucial for online poker players, rakeback affiliates and sites like FTR and 2p2 to actively boycott and blacklist AP until this whole mess is resolved. There's no regulation or policing of the online poker industry. Collectively, we are the police. Which is scary.

If you choose not to play at AP, and in any trivial way try to convince others to do the same, then your decision WILL count. Perversely, if you selfishly choose to play there but publicly denounce the company and anyone who gives them business, that would be better than not playing and keeping your mouth shut

Im sorta persuaded, but then i think the actions of AP in admitting to problems is something people have been very quick to overlook because of the problem.
AP SHOULD have denied that this happened to start with, otherwise we'd have stars admitting the river card is rigged for the amount of us who make a joke of it.
Having said that, when pressed with mounting evidence they took a step to investigate this and while initially rebuffing it they brought in auditors (or w/e) to look it over and then came out with what had happened.

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Im sorta persuaded, but then i think the actions of AP in admitting to problems is something people have been very quick to overlook because of the problem.
AP SHOULD have denied that this happened to start with, otherwise we'd have stars admitting the river card is rigged for the amount of us who make a joke of it.
Having said that, when pressed with mounting evidence they took a step to investigate this and while initially rebuffing it they brought in auditors (or w/e) to look it over and then came out with what had happened.

I'm quick to overlook that they admitted to the problem because they only did so after a month of realizing it and after the story hit the AP, MSNBC, the NYTimes, etc. They just finally realized they couldn't sweep it under the rug any longer and begun damage control.
AP is not good for online poker and neither is supporting them. I want to make poker a lifetime part-time income so online poker needs to survive for that to occur, I'm trying to look at the big picture.

Originally Posted by I Like Pie

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Im sorta persuaded, but then i think the actions of AP in admitting to problems is something people have been very quick to overlook because of the problem.
AP SHOULD have denied that this happened to start with, otherwise we'd have stars admitting the river card is rigged for the amount of us who make a joke of it.
Having said that, when pressed with mounting evidence they took a step to investigate this and while initially rebuffing it they brought in auditors (or w/e) to look it over and then came out with what had happened.

I'm quick to overlook that they admitted to the problem because they only did so after a month of realizing it and after the story hit the AP, MSNBC, the NYTimes, etc. They just finally realized they couldn't sweep it under the rug any longer and begun damage control.
AP is not good for online poker and neither is supporting them. I want to make poker a lifetime part-time income so online poker needs to survive for that to occur, I'm trying to look at the big picture.

I'm sorry Pie, but logically I'm struggling with your argument. If it was the big cheese at AP who were superusing, then it was very much in their interest to make sure no-one else at AP knew about it, i.e. the employees with integrity who carry out the honest day to day running of the company, who wouldn't stand for such abuse and would immediately put the brakes on the lucrative scam.

As for denying the rumours, this is absolutely (no pun intended) the way the company (NB not the perps themselves) should have responded until a full and thorough investigation had been carried out - they owe as much to the shareholders and employees, and accepting blame on nothing but hearsay would be commercial suicide.

http://www.poker-king.com/poker-king...hp?article=292


October 31st, 2007 8:42 pm EST
Poker King News and Notes



After a few days off, we are back from our mini-vacation. When we left, it seemed as though things were finally settling down regarding Absolute Poker, and that maybe the focus would start shifting to more positive news stories in the online poker world.

It seems as though Mark Seif, spokesperson for Absolute Poker, has been handling himself extremely poorly since the entire story broke. He basically threatened a lawsuit against Todd "Dan Druff" Witteles on Raw Vegas TV, even though Witteles was a victim of the Absolute Poker fraud and was one of the leading voices in getting this story out to the public. I followed this entire story very closely, and it seems to me that all Witteles did was ask that Seif produce the hand histories from a suspicious session that he had in February of 2006. Seif seemed to take this as some sort of a personal attack, and threatened a lawsuit against Todd Witteles. Witteles comes across to me as being extremely honest, intelligent and fair, and I have not read anything that Witteles wrote that would lead me to believe that he was accusing Seif of cheating.

Now, apparently, Absolute Poker have said that they deleted the hand histories from the session in doubt involving Mr. Seif. Many, including myself, find this incredible and almost impossible. How a major poker room such as Absolute Poker could not produce a hand history from just over a year and a half ago is beyond me. Hard drives don't cost THAT much money. Can you imagine Pokerstars or Full Tilt Poker saying that they couldn't produce a hand history because it had been deleted? I guarantee you that both sites have the hand history of every hand played on their sites.

I've been away for a couple of days so I am just getting up to speed on this situation, but we'll have more on this in the near future.

The entire Absolute Poker situation had a major effect on our traffic in October. Including all of the sites in our gambling network, we had 94,613 unique visitors in October, with over 400,000 page views.

One of our articles regarding the Absolute Poker situation was Dugg and hit the front page of Digg.com, resulting in a massive surge in traffic. Luckily, our sites held in there for the most part, as we only had a ten minute period of so when our sites were down due to too many MySQL connections at the same time.

October was a very bad month in terms of newsflow for online poker. You had the Absolute Poker scandal, and the entire situation with "TheV0id" being disqualified as the winner of the WCOOP main event. We understand that Pokerstars is being sued. That is another story that we will be paying close attention to, though it may be hard to get any details.

In other news, there are some well-known names still left in the North American Poker Championship which will resume on Thursday. These names include Jeff "Actionjeff" Garza, Barry Greenstein, Adam "Roothlus" Levy and Jonathan "FieryJustice" Little. There are currently 18 players left in the tournament, and they will play down to the final 6 on Thursday, with the final table taking place on Friday.

One more note. Congratulations to Chris Vaughn, who took down back to back Sunday Million tournaments. First he took down the Full Tilt Poker Million Dollar Guaranteed tournament, and then the very next week he took down the Pokerstars Sunday Millions tournament. Undoubtedly one of the most impressive accomplishments ever in online poker. He plays under the alias of "BluffMagCV" on Full Tilt Poker and "SlippyJacks" on Pokerstars.

from bigreds thread.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-62267.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/bu...=1&oref=slogin


Publicity Firm Shames Client for Failure to Pay a Bill
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By ANDREW ADAM NEWMAN
Published: October 29, 2007
The old maxim about media moguls warns against picking fights with people who buy their ink by the barrel, but last week a marketing firm showed that it was not to be trifled with after it distributed a news release trying to shame a client that owed it money.

In a statement sent to about 100 newspapers, Publicity Guaranteed, a marketing firm in Fairfax, Va., said it was owed $43,000 by AbsolutePoker.com, an Internet gambling site based in Costa Rica.

Nat Kurok, senior vice president of Publicity Guaranteed, said he initially had reservations about working with a client both in such an industry and incorporated offshore.

But there was an angle he found irresistible: the site offered college tuition in online poker tournaments.

Publicity Guaranteed has a novel approach where it charges only for each article it successfully pitches; in 2005 and 2006, articles about the tuition contest appeared in more than 40 newspapers, including USA Today and The New York Times. According to court documents in a suit that Publicity Guaranteed won last year in Arlington County Circuit Court in Virginia, Absolute Poker paid $37,000 for the first wave of publicity, and then did not pay publicists for the rest.

Reached Friday by telephone in Costa Rica, an Absolute Poker executive, Paul Leggett, said he would call back with a comment but did not.

Recently, the poker site has had plenty of publicity, but not the helpful kind. After accusations of cheating by players, the company issued a statement admitting “a security breach” that was “horrendous and inexcusable.”

Dozens of Web sites covered the matter; the news release from Publicity Guaranteed linked to 37 of them.

“We’re just saying we’re someone else that got shortchanged by Absolute Poker, and this should be public knowledge,” Mr. Kurok said, adding that other clients who miss payments need not worry about his firm growing another head.

“There are some clients that have trouble with cash flow and we’re flexible,” he said.

Originally Posted by biondino

If it was the big cheese at AP who were superusing, then it was very much in their interest to make sure no-one else at AP knew about it, i.e. the employees with integrity who carry out the honest day to day running of the company, who wouldn't stand for such abuse and would immediately put the brakes on the lucrative scam.

As for denying the rumours, this is absolutely (no pun intended) the way the company (NB not the perps themselves) should have responded until a full and thorough investigation had been carried out - they owe as much to the shareholders and employees, and accepting blame on nothing but hearsay would be commercial suicide.

At the beginning of this all like 6-8 weeks ago there was plenty of evidence with the hand histories and the PT stats and AP concluded at that time that there was no cheating going on, it was impossible to see a player's hole cards and that the sample size was too small. They seemed to conclude their "investigation" despite it being painfully obvious that something was afoul. They must have looked in to those accounts and seen who they belonged to and seen the complete hand histories we ended up seeing yet they say no cheating was going on. Whoever looked into this knew cheating was going on but they decided to deny everything.
Sure enough more evidence came forward, the story got bigger and bigger and they gave up trying to cover it up.

FROM POKER KING.COM


November 9th, 2007 1:16 am EST
Absolute Poker Issues Interim Statement



Earlier tonight, Absolute Poker issued an interim statement dated November 8th, 2007. Here are the main points from the press release:

-Kahnawake Gaming Commission's investigation is on-going

-all players known to have been adversely impacted by the cheating have been reimbursed with interest

-Absolute Poker figures that $800,000 was illicitly "won"

-they say that they have reimbursed to players about $1.6 million dollars

-period of unfair playing was 40 days in length, starting August 14th, 2007

-no outside parties would have been able to exploit this security hole, only an authorized Absolute Poker person

-names of the accounts known to have cheated: potripper, graycat, steamroller, payup, supercard55, romnaldo Edit: I mistakenly omitted the name of "doubledrag." GG Journalism. The Full list is potripper, graycat, steamroller, doubledrag, payup, supercard55 and romnaldo.

-all accounts associated with these accounts are under investigation

-Absolute will reimburse their affected customers further if they find any additional evidence of wrong-doing

good to hear. thx for update.

THOSE BASTARDS! TAKE THEIR LINKS OFF OUR SITE!



They made good. Paid out *double* what was suspected of being stolen, and obviously have the cash on hand to do so. This is a good business.

Originally Posted by euphoricism

This is a good business.

LOL. You're absurd.

how r the games there right now? Stellar I'm sure

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

how r the games there right now? Stellar I'm sure

Apparently traffic hasn't changed significantly pre- and post-cheating announcement.

there is NO change to traffic.

There were pretty much no high stakes games before, there are still none.
But 2/4 and 1/2 are still full and anything below is too and the site is still really quite soft, despite being accessible for US players.

From Cardplayer.com website

Friday Nov 09, 2007published: about 3 hours ago
Absolute Poker Releases Investigation Update
BY: BOB PAJICH | [email protected]
PUBLISHED: Friday Nov 09, 2007 03:11 PM
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Cheaters Won More Than $800,000 From Players
Absolute Poker released another statement concerning the security breach that was uncovered last month. Click here to read a story about the scandal.

Among the highlights of the announcement was an internal investigator's estimate that cheaters managed to win more than $800,000 from unsuspecting players, and that its internal security was first breached on Aug. 14, 2007. Absolute Poker has returned $1.6 million (it said it would return the money with interest).

It also released the user names of all of the players it thinks were in on the scheme: potripper, graycat, steamroller, doubledrag, payup, supercard55, and romnaldo.

Here’s the release, exactly as written:


(NOVEMBER 8, 2007) --- Absolute Poker (AP) issued the following statement today with respect to its on-going internal investigation of the recent security breach in its system.

As Former Grand Chief Joe Norton, the 100% owner of AP, previously stated, Absolute Poker will, when appropriate, issue periodic updates concerning the recent security breach in its system. Because the Kahnawake Gaming Commission's (KGC's) investigation is on-going, the information provided in this interim statement is subject to the completion of the final KCG inquiry. Gaming Associates (GA) is in the process of auditing AP's systems as part of the KGC inquiry. AP continues to cooperate fully with these investigations.

First and foremost, we would like to assure our players, once again, that the security breach, which resulted in unfair play, was resolved immediately after it was discovered and confirmed, and AP's sites are absolutely secure.

At this point, all players known to have been adversely impacted by the security breach have been fully reimbursed with interest. The amount that was illicitly 'won' by the illegitimate accounts was approximately US$800,000. The amount reimbursed to players by AP as a result of the security breach was approximately US$1,600,000.

Thus far, our internal audit has uncovered the following additional information:

The known period of unfair playing was approximately 40 days in length, beginning on 14 August 2007.
A known perpetrator was immediately terminated upon discovery of the scheme and no longer has access to AP. AP's internal investigation continues.
The system breach was the result of a recent internal software release impacting internal reporting. The breach was exploitable only by an authorized AP person that manipulated the internal reporting software, together with the AP gaming software. The security breach was not, therefore, the result of an external action, and no individual outside AP could exploit the breach.
There is no evidence of the current or past existence of a "super-user" account. There is no player account in the AP system with the ability to see other players' hole cards.
The names of the accounts known to have cheated are: potripper, graycat, steamroller, doubledrag, payup, supercard55, and romnaldo. These accounts have been closed. All players that played hands and lost funds during the period in question, against these accounts have received refunds, plus interest, for the net amounts lost.
All accounts associated with the perpetrating accounts are under investigation. If any other accounts are deemed to have engaged in illicit activities, AP will refund all affected players in the same manner.
AP can confirm that not every hand played by the perpetrating accounts during the said period was compromised by the tool enabling the unfair advantage. Nonetheless, AP has refunded players for the net loss resulting from every hand played against the perpetrating accounts during the affected period.
All hand histories with respect to the affected period were retained by AP and were made available to both the Kahnawake Gaming Commission and the internal auditor for detailed review.
All registered accounts in the AP database are under investigation to ensure that there are no other compromised accounts with links or associations to the closed accounts. If the on-going investigation determines that there are any further accounts that were used in connection with the unfair play, all affected players will be reimbursed in full, with interest.

AP regrets the damage that has been done to its players and to its own reputation by this incident. We are absolutely focused on doing the right thing for our loyal customers, employees, consultants, and business partners, and we will continue to work with KGC and Gaming Associates to bring this incident into the full light of day and to right any wrongs done to innocent victims of this unfair play.

Currently, thousands of people are playing on AP both for real money and for free. AP is a safe, secure and fun place to play poker.

too sketchy, those articles freak me out!