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When to cold pre with AA?

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  1. #1

    Default When to cold pre with AA?

    Hand 1

    CO's first 3bet in 20 hands, he is 45/15 and a medium loser on PTR.

    BB is a massive donk, 55/29 in 70 hands, 3bet 3 times already and folded 1/7 times to 3bets. Loves to donk flops, loves to cbet, doesn't fold flops.


    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    saw flop

    UTG+1 ($259.88)
    MP1 ($84)
    Hero (MP2) ($200)
    MP3 ($214)
    CO ($339.64)
    Button ($80)
    SB ($78)
    BB ($233.76)
    UTG ($49)

    Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, A
    3 folds, Hero bets $6, 1 fold, CO raises to $20, 2 folds, BB raises to $40, Hero


    Hand 2

    15/13/8 40bber who 3bets MP 5% and vs EP 7%.


    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    saw flop

    Hero (UTG) ($207)
    UTG+1 ($273.92)
    MP1 ($128.31)
    MP2 ($222.63)
    MP3 ($401.44)
    CO ($216.62)
    Button ($203.46)
    SB ($200)
    BB ($226.96)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
    Hero bets $6, 1 fold, MP1 raises to $16, 6 folds, Hero

    Hand 3

    15/13/6 former shorty who is ok. 20% 4bet and 60% cbet in 3bet pots. 48% fold to 4bet. I 3bet vs CO from the SB 8%.


    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    saw flop

    BB ($334.17)
    UTG ($351.55)
    UTG+1 ($379)
    MP1 ($251.58)
    MP2 ($200)
    CO ($217.19)
    Button ($35.61)
    Hero (SB) ($206.50)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
    4 folds, CO bets $5, 1 fold, Hero raises to $18, BB raises to $38, 1 fold, Hero
  2. #2
    Hand 1: I think it's pretty obvious what you have no matter how you play this. What other hand would flat a 4bet with the original 3bettor still to act? If you do flat, you give CO the implied odds he needs to continue with any pocket pair since the fool in the BB will almost surely bet or c/c flop.
  3. #3
    Hand 2: 7% vs EP is a pretty wide range (unless you raise from EP a lot and he knows it). I think it's worth a raise here to narrow his range a bit. I think you're setting yourself up to win a small pot or lose a big one by calling.

    Hand 3: How does this guy react to a donked flop? If he doesn't easily back down I think you can argue a call/donk line.
  4. #4
    BankItDrew's Avatar
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    1) This is a good time to flat because the pot will be at least $120 on the flop and won't be too hard to get it in.

    2) I'm havng a hard time extracting a lot of value in spots like this because I rarely, if ever, get a call from another raise (this stack size, position, and stats). I may start to experiment with flatting the 3bet.

    3) I'm shipping here because although his 4bet% is higher than most and this is a squeeze spot, he's a former shorty and I have no respect for them.



    It's funny you made this thread because I was considering starting one just like it. I had a very specific situation I wanted to talk about:

    Stacks are 100bb
    UTG reg opens
    Folds to Hero in the BB with AA

    I hate 3 betting here but I feel dirty if I don't. The problem with it is that I don't have a polarized range here and even my 3 betting range in this particular spot is extremely tight. I'm wondering if flatting in the BB with 100% of my range that I want to play, is the best. My thinking is that it accomplishes a couple of things, including:
    - strengthens my calling range which will increase my overall profits with the other hands I'm playing here
    - may increase overall profits with AA in this spot because the pot will be greater than 6bb more often (UTG folds a very high % of the time to the 3bet)

    You may be thinking, "just increase your 3bet range in this spot...". I'm not really sure it will have all that much of a positive impact.
  5. #5
    So you disagree with everything I said Would you adjust these strategies at lower stakes? Could you address why offering the CO in hand 1 5:1 pot odds with a very possible pocket pair and very very good implied odds is better than raising?
  6. #6
    Hand 1, seems like CO is going to ship it a lot if we flat, even if our line looks retarded. It's probably more obvious to him that BB is a massive donk than the fact that you're trapping with a huge hand.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  7. #7
    BankItDrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chusko View Post
    So you disagree with everything I said
    Don't worry, doesn't mean I'm right. Besides, differences in opinion pave the roads of dialogue.

    Would you adjust these strategies at lower stakes? Could you address why offering the CO in hand 1 5:1 pot odds with a very possible pocket pair and very very good implied odds is better than raising?
    I'm certainly not flatting aces pre vs lower stakes nearly as much because they like to get it all in preflop more often.

    There's two reasons why I don't mind giving CO 5:1, because it's unlikely he'll play the hand perfectly
    1) He has to have a pocket pair
    2) He has to call
  8. #8
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    hand 1 - call
    hand 2 - depends on your stats/image. What's your fold to 3b? has he seen you shove worse than AK here? neither call nor raise is terrible. Villain is deep by his standards and his sizing is off = i prefer a call.
    hand 3 - shove
  9. #9
    [QUOTE]
    Don't worry, doesn't mean I'm right. Besides, differences in opinion pave the roads of dialogue.
    [\QUOTE]

    Couldn't agree more. It's why I lurk here.


    There's two reasons why I don't mind giving CO 5:1, because it's unlikely he'll play the hand perfectly
    1) He has to have a pocket pair
    2) He has to call
    I suppose this is where our difference in stakes come into play. Not many ok'ish micro players (at least $20NL at Cake) 3bet anything that's not AK, AQ or a PP, which is why I claimed that he "very likely" has a PP. I was also assuming that he'd know he should call with his tasty odds and fishy opponent based on the stakes alone. I've just always pictured 1/2 players to be at that level.

    I've been reading your posts for several months now. They always give me a lot to think about. Thanks for your insight and non-elitist attitude.
    Last edited by Chusko; 02-13-2012 at 09:42 PM.

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