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JJ on the button

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  1. #1
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    Default JJ on the button

    Villain is 16-13-5, 34% steal, 12% pfr from MP, 55% fold to pf 3b, 16% pf 4b plays tables 50nl through to 200nl. Decent. 71% flop cbet, 45% turn cbet,
    sb is 26-7-2 fish, bb is 35-19-0 - both blinds small samples.

    preflop 3b/call both legit plays?
    flop call best option?
    turn?

    $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem
    7 Players
    Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

    Stacks:
    UTG ($50.85) 102bb
    UTG+1 ($95.20) 190bb
    MP ($46.10) 92bb
    CO ($141.25) 283bb
    daven (BTN) ($55.35) 111bb
    SB ($25.70) 51bb
    BB ($17.50) 35bb

    Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 7 players) daven is BTN
    3 folds, CO raises to $1.50, daven calls $1.50, 2 folds

    Flop: ($3.75, 2 players)
    CO bets $2.60, daven calls $2.60

    Turn: ($8.95, 2 players)
    CO bets $6,
  2. #2
    Raising pre is fine, I prefer calling but that's because it's how I play. Depends on how polarised you're going to be and how wide you want to be 3betting in general though.

    I also think calling flop and calling turn are the best plays. His flop and turn cbet are far apart imo, means he is cbetting the flop too much and/or not betting the turn enough so that's got to be exploitable and as JJ is going to be the top of our calling range I think that's fine on the flop as we can be raising sets (assume you have all 3 in your range) and bluffs throw in for good measure to exploit him cbetting too much whilst flatting any draws we have because we get to realise our equity quite often.

    Turn is still fairly dry. A4s, 33 and 46s got there (A4o too?) which isn't much of his range and almost none of that is in your range in the first place so it's quite a good board for him to be barrelling a lot on the turn. He also picks up some flush draws which he'll be barrelling which is fine. JJ is still probably going to be the best hand in your calling range. So I'd want to call the turn. I don't think raising really reps all that much in this scenario.
    Last edited by Savy; 01-22-2014 at 03:35 AM.
  3. #3
    griffey24's Avatar
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    Given he's continuing most Ax on turn, definitely peeling one more at least.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Z
    I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
    I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
  4. #4
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    Pretty mcuh agree entirely with savy's assessment. Also, well done for getting to 50nl daven.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  5. #5
    I agree as well. Deciding to raise on the turn is showing extreme strength, and if you raise the turn and then get called then I would be worried if I were you.

    For what it's worth, I'm probably 3-betting the button pre-flop with JJ, but that's my style. Either play is fine I think
  6. #6
    Renton's Avatar
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    I like pre if he's particularly tight vs 3-bets. 55% is pretty loose so i'd be tempted to reraise, depends on his co open range, 12% mp doesn't tell us anything, you need to put CO open on your hud popup somewhere.


    Long story short if he's open at least 25% from the co and not really foldign to 3-bets you probably need to 3-bet rather than call.




    Postflop looks fine, just call down. There's a decent amount of incentive to raise flop or turn, but you might blow him out of the pot with like 85% of his range. If he's smart/sticky you could make a lot of money with those lines though.
  7. #7
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    makes sense re co stats. Hand in question there was a player sitting out behind villain = that's why i posted the MP stat.
    Makes sense about 3betting for value pre vs that loose of a call.
    I thought really hard about the turn and raised, then i got shoved on. In retrospect calling makes more sense because i'm not really going to be scared of that turn if i flopped a nut hand and there isn't that much that i can have that calls flop and improves on that turn...
  8. #8
    griffey24's Avatar
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    Why are you raising the turn? I think raising the turn is way over-repping our hand.

    If you're going to raise any street, I'd rather raise the flop.

    call down > raise flop (pending dynamic) > raise turn, imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Z
    I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
    I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
  9. #9
    Renton's Avatar
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    I think raising the turn is a whole different dynamic now than it used to be. TBH I don't give turn raises IP credit at all from most players, so raising JJ here vs me would be pretty smart. It would also piss off the huge parts of my range that hate getting raised on this turn, i.e. the myriad semibluffs in my range.
  10. #10
    Razvan729's Avatar
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    i like raising turn, a lot of cards i'd hate to see on river and plenty worse that call turn raise since pfr is CO. even vs my CO range that gets on turn is worth getting raised by JJ.
    All posts are just my own opinion about a hand or a general situation... not advices on how you should play...
  11. #11
    Micro2Macro's Avatar
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    Raising turn wouldn't really be overrepping our hand against someone with a high turn cbet combined with a reasonable open %

    A4s, and some combination of sets we should be worried about (along with QQ+), though I'd argue only half the set combos are worrisome as everyone checks top set 100% of the time and bottom some non zero amount OTF. And then you have to break down from whatever didn't check turn is thrown into a turn checking range, thus lowering value combos slightly further.

    Razvan also makes a good point regarding rivers. We will always have a bluffcatcher OTR, but if we raise turn we put villain in the position of bluffcatching - out of position.
  12. #12
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    I prefer 3bet/call pre.As played i call flop, anda raise turn, because it appears some draws that you can put some value of them
  13. #13
    STILL_mkd's Avatar
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    I think that would be better if you made re-raise pre flop (3x his raise), but when you decide only to call pre flop, than re-raise the turn is the right move for me.
  14. #14
    griffey24's Avatar
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    If we call turn we're bluff catching, sure. (Villain could vb some 99/TT I'd imagine, as he wouldn't expect JJ). That being said, if we raise turn with hands like this we're going to have a very hard time defending close to appropriately vs triple barrels on rivers.

    I would almost rather raise turn with a hand like 56 that is ahead of his draws but also might get folds from better and has some equity if called by better, but that doesn't remove combos from our triple barrel calling range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Z
    I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
    I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
  15. #15
    Tom1559's Avatar
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    Great post and some great comments from guys that are a lot more experienced than me at this level. Enjoyed reading all of the comments.
    Scottish Cowboy
  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    TBH I don't give turn raises IP credit at all from most players, so raising JJ here vs me would be pretty smart.
    I agree with Tom1559's post above, there is a lot of good info in this thread. However can someone clue me in on what "IP" stands for?
  17. #17
    IP = In Position
    OOP = Out of Position
  18. #18
    Muchas Gracias ImSavy!
  19. #19
    I think that would be better if you made re-raise pre flop (3x his raise)
  20. #20
    prefer to raise in turn and see action may b check in river

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