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How do you all play this monster

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    Event How do you all play this monster

    Cold this have went any different?
    Playing live cash in crown, melbourne. $2 $4. I'm one of the average stacks at the table with about $470. The Hand went like this.
    Hero JJ bb
    5 limpers around to me and I make it 17$
    Utg raises to 45(stack is about 430)
    Mp calls (biggest stack at the table $1500)
    Sb calls (400)
    I call.
    Pot is around $190
    10s Qh 9c
    Check the whole way round
    Jh
    Sb checks
    I lead out for $50
    Utg calls
    Mp folds
    Sb calls
    Pot $340
    10h
    Sb bets $18
    I raise to $106
    Utg tanks for 2 mins then jams all in
    Sb folds
    Around $700 in the pot I have about $270
    What to do? I've played with the villain a few times and know that he would be willing to make big moves and think that he thinks the same about me. I beat a lot of hands in this spot and only go down to 10 10 or QQ
    I do have a bit of fold equity but does anybody fold here or instant call??
    Last edited by Runlikehorse; 01-08-2015 at 09:49 PM.
  2. #2
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    So utg limp/raises? I'd probably call to setmine based on stacks but generally it's an extremely tight range that limp/raises utg.

    Check flop, yes.

    I'd be check/calling or check/folding the turn depending how serious the turn action is, it's a horrendous turn bearing in mind there's so many people in the hand in a raised pot. We have a full house draw, our hand on the turn is worth squat at showdown under the circumstances. But we make a small bet and get calls. We can expect Kx to call, worried about AK being in the hand. We can expect 2prs and sets to call, and maybe someone peels turn with 8x, plus the odd flush draw.

    River is great, for sure. I'd be raising the sb. utg jams. Well now we have a very tough decision. We don't just lose to TT and QQ, there's AhKh which is bang in villain's range. There's also another two combos of straight flushes that beat us (K9hh 89hh), but they're unlikely to l/r pre. So I think villain has KK/QQ/TT/AKhh when he jams river. Maybe he has other AK combos too, but that's optimistic.

    When sb bets, he has boats and straights, maybe some cheeky bluffs he tries to stab with. But I'm thinking a b/f from sb on the river looks a lot like Kx. That said, he's blocking what we want utg to have - AK/KK.

    I think we're in terrible shape. That said, I'm not nearly good enough to fold this, especially seeing as utg l/r'ed, which could suggest he's overplaying AA. But I think this is queens and we're losing our stack.

    Why did you bet the turn? Can you not se how horrible the board is?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  3. #3
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    I was thinking on the turn it was a good spot to represent ak, chuck in $50 and test the water. if I do get a call at the time I was thinking if the river pairs the board I'm in great shape to take it down.

    I think you summed it up perfect tho. It was extremely hard not too call for stacks on the river. I should have took an extra minute during the hand and thought about the l/r cause it really was screaming QQ. Could have been KK or AA but given the way the board ran out and jamming after two raises, he really was showing strength.

    I should have c/c the turn and possibly the river it had of been a small value bet. All said and done tho, I called and he showed QQ.

    I thought at the time and for a while after it, that i played it ok and just ran into a sick hand but now after your analysis there was a huge mistake in betting the turn, the board was too ugly. Could have saved a good sack and possibly even made a great lay down on the river if the bet was too large.

    Thanks for your feedback tho, helped a lot.
  4. #4
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    With this being live, do you have any physical reads on villain?

    Your $50 turn bet does not rep AK. It looks like a blocker bet to me with a reasonable hand but not a nutty hand, something like a set or 2pr, or perhaps KQ/KJ etc. AK should be making a huge bet on this turn because we can expect monster value from so many hands, such as QQ KQ KK etc.

    Don't worry about losing your stack with a strong full house vs a better one. It's rare as hell, and even then it's a break even situation because if you have QQ and he has JJ, you can expect his stack. Worry about how you can play the hand better, such as the turn. I don't think you can avoid losing your stack here unless the action is insane on the turn.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  5. #5
    pre OK
    bet flop: you block against straights and could take it down there
    turn: one card to a straight, I would c/c here
    river: call the shove, maybe depending on reads; if he tanks for 2min there is a reasonable chance that you are up against an xT full house that you beat. The weird pre-flop line would make me worry, though. But can't really fold here.
  6. #6
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    Think ongbonga summed it up pretty good. I don't think any size bet would have took it down on the flop
  7. #7
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    What about this hand this morning
    Same stakes...
    BB with KK
    A few limpers around to button who makes it $25 he hasn't been at the table too long and has pretty much starting stack of $400
    I know he's came from overseas for the Aussie millions but don't have any other info on him.

    KK. I raise to $65 my stack is about $570.

    A few folds round to button and he tank calls.

    Pot $140

    3 J 8 rainbow

    I bet $75 and again he tanks for about a minute pushing his chips around and makes the call.

    Pot $290

    Turn 2s

    I decide to merge cautiously and check. Again he tanks for a little bit a puts out $100. I call.

    Pot $490
    River 9d I check he puts the rest of his chips in think it was about $130
    Thoughts on this?
  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Runlikehorse View Post
    What about this hand this morning
    Same stakes...
    BB with KK
    A few limpers around to button who makes it $25 he hasn't been at the table too long and has pretty much starting stack of $400
    I know he's came from overseas for the Aussie millions but don't have any other info on him.

    KK. I raise to $65 my stack is about $570.

    A few folds round to button and he tank calls.

    Pot $140

    3 J 8 rainbow

    I bet $75 and again he tanks for about a minute pushing his chips around and makes the call.

    Pot $290

    Turn 2s

    I decide to merge cautiously and check. Again he tanks for a little bit a puts out $100. I call.

    Pot $490
    River 9d I check he puts the rest of his chips in think it was about $130
    Thoughts on this?
    shove turn imo. in the live games I play here in the states, people don't slowplay sets then ram em down your neck scared of you outdrawing them. based on your first hand it makes me skeptical though. still, if villain has $230 left on turn with $290 in the pot im sticking it in. also, bet bigger on the flop. like $100ish. makes jamming turn easier. ( by easier I mean you will be jamming $205 into $340 which villain will call with a wider range than if you bet $230 into $290)
    "The harder you work, the luckier you get." ~ courtesy of my fortune cookie from china king

    "One of the best pieces of advice I've ever read in this forum was three words long...

    bet fucking fold." Ong
  9. #9
    What acg said. Better to get it in on the turn, can't fold anymore on the river.

    Since you only c/c the turn, your KK is not face up. Villain might put you on a strong ace that missed the flop.
    I don't really play these games (stakes, cg live?), so others please correct me if this should be complete crap.
  10. #10
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    Yeah that was an option to jam the turn but I just had a weird feeling. So decided to c/c the whole way and if he has a set he got me. He showed jj for the set And won the pot. Don't think there was Any point I could get away from the hand, just down to bad luck. I thought with maybe a bit of emotion free analysis there may have been another alternative.
    Thanks
  11. #11
    "If he had the set he got me"

    I don't see how you call Turn. Betting, Check-Fold and Check-Raise all make some sense to me... the stacks aren't deep enough for the Check-Raise to get any folds though.
    You say you were suspicious: that $100 bet is one you can fold to and wait for a better spot (not that I likely would have myself).
    You don't seem to have had a plan.

    Your pre-flop raise looks small too but that very much depends on the table dynamic.

    What do you think his range is here? AA QQ AJ Sets? T9?
  12. #12
    With it being multi-way on the flop I think betting is a better spot. No pair but you kill K and 8 plus you are holding to blockers to AK. So a bet here is favorable IMO.

    Honestly I hate the $50 bet on the turn. I think if you are going to pursue here with Jh open ended then perhaps semi-bluff is better for you to bet just under or over half pot. This way top pair really has to think about their position and or Ax holdings.

    Honestly I could be completely wrong in my idea...

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