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Full Ring Digest (and ABCD Theorem)

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  1. #1
    Renton's Avatar
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    Jan 2006
    a little town called none of your goddamn business

    Default Full Ring Digest (and ABCD Theorem)

    Full Ring Digest

    Here are links to the most helpful and popular articles written by our own forum members for Full Ring players.

    If you see other great posts in this forum (or any pertinent information in other forums or sites) that you feel should be included in this collection, please make a post in this thread with a link to that page.

    Why play full ring? by Renton
    Renton's 169 hand SS-NLHE ring strategy: Preflop by Renton
    Renton's 169 hand SS-NLHE ring strategy: Postflop, Part I by Renton
    Renton's 169 hand SS-NLHE ring strategy: Postflop, Part II by Renton

    Renton theorem aka ABCD theorem by Renton

    Raising Behind Limpers by spoonitnow

    ABCD Theorem Thread

    The rest of this thread is the ABCD Theorem Thread and Examples

    I'm starting a thread where we break down decisions in specific hands using ABCD logic in order to ease the use of the theorem into our everyday situations and practice. Here's how it will work.

    Player A posts a hand where he has a decision. He attempts to define the A, B, C, and D subranges and the corresponding play with each, and ultimately discovers the correct play with his actual holding.

    Player B then critiques Player A's post, and Players A and B grow intellectually.

    I'll start.

    POKERSTARS GAME #19372008697: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($5/$10) - 2008/08/05 - 02:15:24 (ET)
    Table 'Praxedis' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: dakoda7972 ($510 in chips)
    Seat 2: Floyd1479 ($1211.75 in chips)
    Seat 3: bearbull01 ($388.75 in chips)
    Seat 4: AndrewBoccia ($1552 in chips)
    Seat 5: Renton555 ($988 in chips)
    Seat 6: ALLIN9865 ($1045 in chips)
    ALLIN9865: posts small blind $5
    dakoda7972: posts big blind $10

    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Renton555 [Ts Js]

    Floyd1479: folds
    bearbull01: folds
    AndrewBoccia: raises $20 to $30
    Renton555: calls $30
    ALLIN9865: folds
    dakoda7972: calls $20

    *** FLOP *** [Kh 9c Ks]

    dakoda7972: checks
    AndrewBoccia: bets $80

    dakoda is unknown. AB is a loose aggressive player who probably c-bets too much. Our ranges are as follows:

    A. {Kx, 99} Optimal play is to either raise for value or mix in slowplaying.

    B. {9x, TT-QQ, AA, 88/77*} Pretty much trivial call, no other play makes sense.

    C. {hands like QT/JT, AhXh} Marginal hands with nut potential. These are the ideal hands to run bluffs with.

    D. {22-66, the rest} Trivial fold.

    (*** 77 and 88 are pretty marginal here and if villain likes to barrel a ton then you need to just fold these on the flop so they move to range D)

    According to my analysis, our hand fits perfectly in C, therefore we mix in plays like this.

    *** FLOP *** [Kh 9c Ks]

    dakoda7972: checks
    AndrewBoccia: bets $80
    Renton555: raises $130 to $210
    dakoda7972: folds
    AndrewBoccia: folds

    Uncalled bet ($130) returned to Renton555
    Renton555 collected $252 from pot
    Renton555: doesn't show hand

    Floating was also an option, but I thought raising was good because I don't really expect him to 3-bet me with the hands he continues with, he'll probably just call and let me spew to him. So I normally will get to see if i hit my gutshot when he continues.
    Last edited by Pascal; 08-07-2013 at 05:15 PM.
  2. #2
    Stacks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
    Ty for starting this thread Renton. I'll try to get things started out and contribute. And not suck too much along the way, although I'm not sure I played this hand all that well. For what it's worth, I was thrown off by the monotone flop because alot of the hands I would think fits into Range A (TPTK, Top Two, etc) aren't quite as strong because of the possible flush, so I'll try, but be prepared to correct alot.

    PokerStars Game #19391598581: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/08/05 - 20:16:57 (ET)
    Table 'Klotho V' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
    Seat 1: StillMdv ($26.85 in chips)
    Seat 2: MartinK1979 ($54.45 in chips)
    Seat 3: envy113 ($51.50 in chips)
    Seat 4: chas2148 ($24.50 in chips)
    Seat 5: comeoncousin ($57.10 in chips)
    Seat 6: karlitos82 ($64.10 in chips)
    Seat 7: Cassiopeia7 ($7.50 in chips)
    Seat 8: XxStacks60xX ($75.80 in chips)
    Seat 9: blue inferno ($31.30 in chips)
    comeoncousin: posts small blind $0.25
    karlitos82: posts big blind $0.50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to XxStacks60xX [5h 5c]
    Cassiopeia7: folds
    Cassiopeia7 leaves the table
    XxStacks60xX: raises $1.50 to $2
    blue inferno: folds
    StillMdv: folds
    MartinK1979: folds
    envy113: folds
    chas2148: folds
    comeoncousin: calls $1.75
    karlitos82: folds

    Preflop is probably pretty marginal here from such early position. I usually just dump 22-55 from EP, but whatever. I didn't this time so sorry lol.

    *** FLOP *** [2c 7c Ac]
    comeoncousin: checks
    XxStacks60xX: bets $3.50
    comeoncousin: calls $3.50

    After his check,I have my ranges broke down as such:
    Range A: AA, 77, flush, KcXh, Ax(bet to build a pot. We can stand a raise with these hands.)
    Range B: 88-KK (no club), 7x (exercise pot control so just check behind)
    Range C: 55, 66, decent club (little showdown value so we bet hoping to take it down now or improve on the turn)
    Range D: air without any value (check and expect to fold to aggression on later streets)

    I think most of your weak aces with no redraw should get bumped over to B, as i believe you definitely can't stand a raise with them. Also, I believe that this is an atypical ABCD spot. You'll definitely be betting A and checking B, but its kinda grey how you should play C and D. I would prob just bet both C and D as a bluff the majority of the time. So in this case C and D are similar if not identical in value.

    So using this logic our 55 falls into Range C. Therefore, we c-bet here hoping to take the pot down. I feel this will work a good percentage of the time given the A scare card on the board + the monotone flop.

    *** TURN *** [2c 7c Ac] [5d]
    comeoncousin: checks
    XxStacks60xX: bets $7
    comeoncousin: calls $7

    The best possible turn card for us. If we were beat before to a flopped flush we just picked up 10 outs going into the river. Given his check I'm not giving him credit for a flopped flush yet. If he wakes up with a c/r, I have outs on the river now. So my ranges look like this now:
    Range A: 77, AA, 55, flush (bet because he hasn't shown strength plus we have outs against a better hand)
    Range B: Ax, decent club, (check behind again as on this scary of a board only better calls a bet, but we might win a showdown)
    Range C: KcXh (We can bet again as we have nut potential here, even though our equity has been cut in half)
    Range D: 66 (our steal attempt on the flop failed and now we give up wtih this hand)

    Once again, this is kinda atypical. Because its a spot where you can bet strong hands and fold to a raise. So interestingly, your set of fives (just like AK) is in the B range, but you should BET your B range here, folding to a raise. Yes i believe if he c/r you, then you should fold your set unless you are getting proper odds to fill.

    Also, this isn't a particularly good spot to barrel. So in this scenario, the way I see it, you should be

    1. Betting A range hands and shoving to a raise.
    2. Betting B range hands and folding to a raise (you expect mostly to get called so this is just fine.
    3. Checking C range hands and hoping to improve.
    4. Checking D range hands to give up.

    This illustrates how the intended play with the four ranges isn't necessarily static. Sometimes you have to bet your D, sometimes you don't. And in this case its perfectly alright to bet decent made hands (B) and fold to a raise, just because theres a ton of value in betting them.

    Given this range, our hand now falls into Range A (we bet and can call a raise). So we bet again here for value against all but a flopped flush or 77, AA.

    *** RIVER *** [2c 7c Ac 5d] [4d]
    comeoncousin: bets $12
    XxStacks60xX: calls $12

    Now villian wakes up with a bet on the river. I don't like this too much as it looks like a slowplayed flopped flush, and we didn't hit our fullhouse. So our now looks like this:
    Range A: KcXc (the nuts. Raise for value trying to get more money in)
    Range B: 77, AA, 55, AK (maybe?) (Hands that aren't behind too often so we call hoping to win the showdown.
    Range C: I don't think I'm raising with anything here as a bluff
    Range D: weak Ace, missed flush draw, (I think only better would c/c, c/c, b here so we can safely fold these hands.

    Technically C range should be something like KcX, which would be playing 2 card omaha and in theory is the best holding to bluff with. However its prob not +ev vs this player.

    So, given this range, we elect to just call with our set of fives.

    So there's my first attempt. I may have done a few things wrong, as I have never written these entire ranges out like this. Am I correct in checking behind on the flop with hands like Ax? If so, at what kicker would you bet on this flop? Or check all behind hoping to induce a stab by villian on the turn? Any critism is welcome.

    *Edit* - To make some sense (Maybe), and because I'm a donk and screwed up the first time. Next will be much better.
  3. #3
    Agree w/ flop and river

    Quote Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
    *** TURN *** [2c 7c Ac] [5d]
    comeoncousin: checks
    XxStacks60xX: bets $7
    comeoncousin: calls $7

    [b] The best possible turn card for us. If we were beat before to a flopped flush we just picked up 10 outs going into the river. Given his check I'm not giving him credit for a flopped flush yet. If he wakes up with a c/r, I have outs on the river now. So my ranges look like this now:
    Range A: 22, 77, AA, 55, flush (bet because he hasn't shown strength plus we have outs against a better hand)
    Range B: Ax, 7x, decent club, 88-KK (check behind again as on this scary of a board only better calls a bet, but we might win a showdown)
    Range C: KcXh (We can bet again as we have nut potential here, even though our equity has been cut in half)
    Range D: 33,44,66, air (too weak so we check and intend to fold to aggression on the river)
    Flop: The only thing here is put AKc,AQc into our value range.
    Turn I think we should move 33,44 into range C and 2barrel these hands as bluffs because we picked up the gutshot. Also I think AK,AQ should of checked flop, and be betting turn for value. So as it is

    Range A: 22, 77, AA, 55, flush,AK,AQ (bet because he hasn't shown strength plus we have outs against a better hand)
    Range B: Ax, 7x, decent club, 88-KK (check behind again as on this scary of a board only better calls a bet, but we might win a showdown)
    Range C: 33,44,KcXh (We can bet again as we have nut potential here, even though our equity has been cut in half)
    Range D: 66, air (too weak so we check and intend to fold to aggression on the river)

    On another note. Is 22-44 really in our range since your usually not raising 55? Just putting that out there
  4. #4
    ***** Hand History for Game 19331296859 *****
    $100.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, August 03, 03:59:58 ET 2008
    Table Antenor II (Real Money)
    Seat 3 is the button
    Seat 2: SparklinRock ( $59.05 USD )
    Seat 3: yAAwn ( $220.85 USD )
    Seat 4: City_Council ( $87.50 USD )
    Seat 5: Darvini ( $45.50 USD )
    Seat 6: cre8dee ( $111.65 USD )
    Seat 7: generalpoker ( $101.70 USD )
    Seat 8: WojtasPolak ( $84.15 USD )
    Seat 9: PeaceDeath ( $141.65 USD )
    City_Council posts small blind [$0.50 USD].
    Darvini posts big blind [$1.00 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to yAAwn [ Tc Jc ]
    cre8dee folds
    generalpoker folds
    WojtasPolak calls [$1.00 USD]
    PeaceDeath raises [$5.00 USD]
    SparklinRock folds
    yAAwn calls [$5.00 USD]
    City_Council folds
    Darvini folds
    WojtasPolak calls [$4.00 USD]

    Ok pre-flop is standard versus this spew monkey(26/16)

    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, Ts, 7d ]
    WojtasPolak checks
    PeaceDeath bets [$15.00 USD]
    yAAwn calls [$15.00 USD]
    WojtasPolak folds

    This guy c-bets like 90% which is like his entire range(Which is a bunch of random crap everything from 22+,23s+,68s,and big cards.) Guy is pretty random.

    A- 33,77,TT,JJ,8d9d,Td9d,JdTd,AdTd,AdJd,AdQd,KdQd,QdJ d (All of these hands we can raise/stand a raise versus this villain)
    B-QTs,JTs,T9s,87s,ATs,88,99,AQ,AJ,KQ,QJ(These are hands we can call this villain with because he gives up a tonne after firing once. We also float with AQ,AJ,KQ,QJ to take away the pot on the turn if he checks to us.)
    C-22,44-66,89s(I raise 89s here as a bluff because he isn't giving off good enough PO to just call but we have a tonne of FE)
    D-Everything that missed and we fold.

    Underpairs are total garbage and should be placed in D. 89s is a very weird one. I could see it as being in A, B, or D depending on reads. Its definitely not in C though, because if you raise here, you have to call a shove (A range characteristic). I would prob call it because I expect my implied odds to be somewhat high.

    Also, I think you overestimate his cbet frequency. This is a very big bet into a multiway pot. JT probably isn't doing spectacular vs his range, so I'd definitely not be calling him with second pair. Second pair is a C to D range hand here. Also I think autocalling with overs and stuff is pretty irresponsible. I'm not gonna comment much on the rest of the hand, because the ranges become skewed.

    Ok so we have JcTc which is in our B range so we call pretty sure he'll give up unless he already has us beat.

    ** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
    PeaceDeath checks
    yAAwn bets [$25.00 USD]
    PeaceDeath calls [$25.00 USD]

    Ok so he checks it to us and our new ABCD ranges become
    A-JTs,QTs,ATs,T9s,99(All of these hands hit trips and put us way ahead of his range so we fire hoping to get a call from 88,99 type hands of some type of 7x, or draw. I also think 99 is worth a bet here)
    C-AQ,KQ,AJ,QJ(We fire these hands like we planned if he checks to us)
    We have no D range

    Cool observation. Since you called the flop its very tough for you to have air. This is a VERY IMPORTANT handreading concept for playing the turn and river when you are in villains shoe's.

    Ok so we have JTs so we fire turn for value and get called taking us to the river.
    ** Dealing River ** [ 2d ]
    PeaceDeath checks
    yAAwn checks

    River card is terrible for us because if he had diamonds he got there. Looking back though I think I should of definately bet but anyway lets take at our new ABCD ranges.

    A-JTs,QTs,ATs,9T(These hands can probably be value bet or value shoved here)
    B-88,99,87(Hands with showdown value that we check)
    C-Adx,Kdx(I think these hands are good for river bluff shoves because we have the big flush blockers)
    D-AQ,KQ,QJ,AJ(Hands we give up with)

    Totally agree. And yeah you should bet imo, but its not the worst check ever or anything.

    I'd really like people to take a look at this and I'm wondering if I should move some dd type hands into my call range because with these ranges I have here I'm not showing up with any flushes but I think it's probably fine versus this villain because we can pick up the pot a TONNE on the flop with semi-bluffs.
  5. #5
    1. Narrowing ranges
    If I understand this principle when we move from one decision to the next decision we should only include the part of our range that took the actions. There's nothing wrong with starting ABCD already before the flop and the continuing with (for example) the B range when we have called pre-flop and expand that into ABCD ranges on the flop. For example in Stacks' example the 88-KK hands there were B range on the flop should not be in any of the ranges on the turn since we did not call.

    This is true, I actually didn't notice.

    When we start balancing ranges that will invalidate the point, but for the exercise and clarity I think it's best to stick to polar ranges.

    2. Full ring forum?
    I think it's safe to say that the ABCD theorem is applicable also to short-handed play - and I think it's an absolutely terrific tool. Should we post 6max hands in here also? Or could ABCD theorem coverage be moved to the generic NL Strategies forum?

    Yes, please do.

    3. Modifying ABCD ranges based on reads
    The easiest example of this thought is pre-flop (as evidenced in the 3b/4b thread in the Strategies forum). For example if an opponent folds to a 3bet 99% of the time (only calling/raising AA/KK presumably) we could beef up our C and B ranges against this opponent considerably. Similarly if we know an opponent never C-bets missed flops we can beef up our B range in position, bet when checked to and take down the pot etc etc.

    Instant Aces (I'm probably not particularly qualified to comment):
    Maybe KdJd / KdTd / QdTd in A range on the flop if any of them call PF in position against this opponent (and KT in B) - otherwise I like the flop ranges and note that QQ-AA and AK are 3betting hands pre-flop and thus would not have been called.
    On the turn I agree that all trips are A range, but I would hesitate to put 99 in A for value. While it's true a 7x hand might call a bet, which would make 99 betting be for value, I think it's easier to extract value from 7x type hands on the river. I would probably put 99 in B. I agree with C range.
    Interestingly, the check/call on the flop means that on the river we have no full houses or flushes in our range. If our opponent is perceptive and has kept this kind of track of our ranges (ok he's a monkey and probably hasn't) he'd know that a bet can't mean a full house or a flush. This also underlines that it might be beneficial on the flop to put some of the 33,77,TT and flush draws in the B range a percentage of the time. (I believe this is what is called balancing the range). On the actual range (assumption being an absence of balancing) I would leave out 88, 99, 87 as checked on the turn and move the trips with lesser kickers into B (JTs, T9s - maybe even QTs).
    Of course there needs to be enough hands in the A range to justify an amount of hands in the C range (playing for folds) so I am not sure demoting the lesser trips is correct to allow for some hands in the C range. But on the other hand trips is a hand with relatively middling hand strength at this point (full houses and flushes) so I don't necessarily want to bet a great amount of them. Great turn bet sizing btw, and very perceptive to include hands with blockers in the C range on the river.
    Further to the river I think I'd like to discuss which hands will call and which hands will fold here. I think the opponent can show up on the river with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 99, 88, 87 type hands that will fold (or consider a fold) if we shove. TT, 77, 33, T7 and flushes will all call our shoves. This suggests to me that we can't really value shove at all with any trip hands. Maybe we don't have an A range at all. I don't think I'd have a problem with all our trips in B and if we think he'll fold AA to a shove just expand the C range to all overcards with a diamond. It seems exploitative to me to have a bluff range without having a value range, but I guess we can argue that some flopped full houses and flush draws were checked for balance and those are the ones we are representing.
  6. #6
    Renton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    a little town called none of your goddamn business
    my comments in green, i can't promise to do this for everyone but i'll do my best
  7. #7
    Fnord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Silicon Valley
    Re: Renton

    This board is a game of chicken. He's going to bet here like 10000000000000000000% of the time until you give him cause not to. The biggest question here is how big we're going to c/r. A small c/r is going to get a wider range to peel. A bigger c/r has less value if he's folding to any c/r but will make it difficult for him to peel light.

    It's spots like that where reads = profit. Also you need to keep ahead of the curve and change up the game on him once he catches on to what you're doing. c/r here a couple times, then donk, then c/c donk with some folds thrown in so you're not a slot machine. Confuse him into just giving up his air because he can't put you on shit.

    Re: Instant Aces

    I like a 3-bet here pre-flop. It will buy us fold equity on high card boards and set-up our value 3-bets.

    On the turn I would bet more money to balance out my float range. Also, we want to play a big pot here, so force him to put a lot of money in the middle to play back.

    On the river I see no reason to put him on a flush. It's probably a medium pair hand that wants to see a showdown. Value town it with like a 1/2 to 1/3ish pot bet and give him his showdown.
  8. #8
    JKDS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Chandler, AZ
    Alright, ima take a shot. Be gentle lol
    Villain is a 26/4 over only 50 hands. I've seen him limp the button with JJ and call down when he hit top set for 4bbs, and hes limped 86s utg before. Seems to have started betting a bit more, but too soon to tell really. Preflop action is typical of him, but hes yet to bet into me.

    SB $2.05.
    BB $4.69.
    utg $4.41.
    Villain $9.07.
    mp1 $2.
    HERO $11.60.
    mp3 $1.38.
    Mp4 $4.76.
    CO $1.33.
    Button $2.30.



    utg folds. Villain calls. HERO raises to $.45. mp3 folds. Mp4 folds. CO folds. Button folds. SB folds. BB folds. Villain calls.


    Villain bets $1.05. HERO calls.

    A) 33, 22, JJ+. While i've seen him limp JJ from the button, i highly doubt he takes this preflop road with QQ or better, so these hands should raise for value, or in the case of 33,22 some slowplaying may cause him to bet a dead hand on the turn while hed fold it on the flop.
    B) 44-TT. These hands could be dominated, as he can easily have a pocketpair in this spot, but on the same token we could have him completely crushed. Also a favorite over like a AK hand or spade hand, so we call and reevaluate on turn.
    C) Axs, Kxs, AK, AQ. Likely the only hands we bluff with here, for this particular villain i considered putting AK,AQ into the D range, but i feel they are likely to be the best hand if improved on the turn or river.
    D)the rest

    first question, Where would you put AK,AQ? And should A be wider than that, or is having JJ in there too risky?

    Anyway, 99 fits into B for now, so i call

    Turn :Tc:

    Villain bets $3.15. HERO goes all-in for $10.10. Villain calls.
    ^^silly based on where im putting 99, but moving on lol.

    So, we only have 44-TT in our range now, of these
    A) TT
    B) 77-99. I dount think he is taking this line with a ten in his hand, so what was true on the flop should still be true now.
    C) 44-66. These hands, and maybe 77, really dont want to see a river card while they might still be the best hand right now.

    River :Tc:

    Alright, so, actions over, but he only has 4ish left, so lets say he puts it in.
    We took the B line, so
    A) 77
    B) 99,88. I still think these hands will be best a good percent of the time assuming i didnt push that turn lol.

    alright...whatcha think?
  9. #9
    Keilah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Northern BC, Canada
    Villain be a TAG reg at 100NL on Stars, his Hijack range should be fairly tight but not insanely so.

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

    MP1 ($120.75)
    MP2 ($100)
    MP3 ($105.50)
    CO ($100.85)
    Button ($140.10)
    Hero ($99)
    BB ($52.85)
    UTG ($208.75)
    UTG+1 ($64.95)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, A.
    4 folds, MP3 raises to $4, 2 folds, Hero calls $3.50, BB calls $3.

    a)AA-QQ,AK : 3bet for value
    b)JJ-88,AQ,AJs,ATs,KQs,some SCs - call
    c)Lower PPs, Low Axs,KQo,some SCs - 3bet bluff, fold, or rarely call, some randomizing in here
    d)Other stuff - fold

    Flop: ($12) A, 6, T (3 players)
    Hero bets $7, BB folds, MP3 calls $7.

    FLOP - i'm unsure if AQ is in A or B, it's close but he's tight so I vote B

    A)TT,66,KdQd,QdJd,8d7d,9d8d,ATs,A6s - nut range, b/3b or c/r
    B)AQ,AJ,Axs,JJ,JTs,T9s - c/c
    C)22-99,GSDs,76s,65s - options, c/f the pairs, c/r, b/f or b/3b the semibluffs
    D)whatever else - fold

    So I should probably c/c here but I made a small bet which is weird but I was very distracted and timing out and probably forgot who was preflop aggressor and God knows what other excuses I can make but this'll do.

    Turn: ($26) 9 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP3 bets $10, Hero calls $10.

    TURN - Having bet on the flop narrows my range a lot. I'm not sure where to put those FD+GSDs that didn't hit I'll go with C, same with A6s, should that stay in A?
    A)TT,66,QdJd,8d7d,ATs- b/c, some c/r to balance with b) and c)
    B)A6s,AQ - c/c
    C)9d8d,KdQd - options again, c/r probably
    D)The rest - c/f

    River: ($46) 2 (2 players)
    Hero bets $36, MP3 calls $36.

    Final Pot: $118

    RIVER - AQ stays in B or moves down to C?
    A)All the old stuff, plus KdQd and 9d8d which can fit a turn c/c since he bet so small - what's the best way to get his money in? Shove? Small bet?
    B)A6s,AQ - c/c? or maybe I should b/f for balance with A?
    C)nothing left
    D)nothing left

    So by the river most of my range is very strong - just bet it all?
  10. #10
    jimmy44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Place where I can spew
    I think you should redo the ABCD taking your pre-flop range.
    So you've taken preflop B.
    So FLOP should be:
    A) TT,KdQd,QdJd,8d7d,9d8d,ATs - nut range, b/3b or c/r
    B) AQ,AJs,JJ,JTs,T9s - c/c
    C) 89,87,76s,65s - c/r, b/f or b/3b the semibluffs (Here I believe you should take the same line as in A), i.e. if you c/r A you should c/r C.
    D) 88-99 - fold

    A) TT, ATs, QdJd, 8d7d - b/3b (I believe this is better then b/c due to the FD)
    B) AQ - c/c
    C) 9d8d, 8d7d, KdQd - b/3b
    D) AJs??, JJ, JTs, T9s, 76s, 65s - fold

    Here you only have AQ in your range!
  11. #11
    Keilah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Northern BC, Canada
    I reduced my range on the flop not by which section my hand fell in, but by what hands could possibly have made it to the flop the way they did. Notice AA is not in there because it would almost always 3bet but A6s, 33, and T9s are possibilities because I would sometimes call with those hands.

    It would surely simplify things if I only used my B) preflop range for the rest of the hand, though =p

    Also on turn I wrote b/c rather than b/3b because I figure if he raises the turn it'll be a shove. What I meant was, "lead out and get all the money in if he raises."

    Thanks for the feedback. It's interesting that, although my version of the analysis is more thorough and misses less options, yours is both more elegant and leads to the 100% correct hand read while mine leads to a bit a of a jumble! There's a good lesson in there, no doubt.
  12. #12
    I just read this earlier and thought it was such a brilliant concept that I should register for the forum. Here's a hand I played earlier...

    $.25/$.50 FR NLHE, 100 BB effective stacks.
    Villian (UTG) 12/8 over 150 hands or so, limps $0.50.
    Folds to Hero, (BB), dealt Ad Ah.

    Villian's range looks something like 22+ (probably 22-JJ), AQ+...heavily weighted toward pairs. It also seems unlikely (but possible) that he'll 4bet.

    Hero's ranges are something like...

    A) KK+, comfortable raising/shoving for value (mostly) or raising/calling occasionally.
    B) 22-QQ, AK, these hands we can raise/fold or raise/call (for set value) depending on the re-raise amount.
    C) 54s+, Axs+, 64s+, suited broadways, these are hands we can raise/fold.
    D) Anything else, check.

    The reason we raise our A range is for value.
    The reason we raise our B range is for value and because we can steal.
    The reason we raise our C range is because we can steal.
    The reason we have a D range to check is because if we raise 100% of hands, we're weighted extremely heavily toward stealing and this can be easily exploited, especially because we're OOP.

    Since we're in our A range, we raise.

    How much should we raise (and are we raising the same amount with each of our A/B/C ranges? I would say so...this can be debated)? Since we have 100 BB stacks, we're going to seem to give villian implied odds unless we raise huge, to like 10 BB or so. That's bad. But we're raising primarily for value, so, let's get some value.

    Hero raises $2.50 to $3.00.

    Villian calls $2.50.

    Pot = $6.00ish. (rake)

    Flop: 3s 6s 7c

    Hero's ranges now look something like...

    A) 77, 66, 45suited, 89s, 9Ts, A4s, A5s - These are hands we're prepared to felt on the flop. Bet/Shove (mostly), CRAI (possibly, allows villian to bet overpairs). I can't see us Bet/Calling, but feel free to give an argument for it if you wish.
    B) xys, 89 - These are hands we can probably bet/call (depending on the odds we're getting). CRAI might be FPS here, but if the villian is really aggro post-flop, it's an option. Also, it saves us some head-scratching if villian just calls and we brick the turn.
    C) 88+, 9T - These hands we're bet/folding, but we have a little bit of equity if called. We might 2-barrel with these? --- (Or should we actually check these? I think check/calling is bad because we'll never be getting proper odds. If the villian checks behind and we hit, we're golden. If the villian checks behind and we miss, I think we're pretty much in the same situation as we are now. Which means we check the turn again, hope he doesn't bet, and check/call the river if we miss? This seems awfully weak to me, but maybe it's the best way to go.)
    D) Everything else - These hands we're bet/folding and giving up on the turn if called.

    We're betting everything, so we bet $5.

    Villian Minraises $5 to $10!

    Hero folds, not getting the proper odds to spike his 2-outer.


    Replay the hand with Ts Js.

    Everything is the same up until the last action?
    Hero calls because he's getting great odds, probably CRAI on any spade turn. And doesn't get stupid when a J or T hits.

    Please rip this apart.
  13. #13

    Default I'll give it a shot...

    Since I have been studying this for the past 3 hours I figured I would give it a shot...

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from

    SB ($1.09)
    BB ($4.34)
    UTG ($1.08)
    UTG+1 ($3.38)
    MP1 ($4.90)
    MP2 ($6.43)
    Hero (MP3) ($4.95)
    CO ($1.65)
    Button ($3.01)

    Pre Flop:
    A: (TT-AA, AK, AQ) - Raising/3betting
    B: (AJ, KQs, KJs, 66-99) - Betting a majority of the time/calling a bet. Possibly folding to a 3bet or calling depending on odds (more folding).
    C: (56s-QJs, 22-55, Axs, KTs) - limping or folding depending on image. But sometimes may raise or call a raise for deception (not likely).
    D: (the rest we fold)

    Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J, J
    UTG bets $0.08, UTG+1 (poster) calls $0.06, MP1 calls $0.08, MP2 calls $0.08, Hero raises to $0.24, 4 folds, UTG calls $0.16, UTG+1 (poster) calls $0.16, MP1 calls $0.16, MP2 calls $0.16

    A: (AA, AK, 44, 22, 56s) - betting/3betting, Value bets as well (56s isnt likely at this point but the $level of play is to fishy not to include it). Will stack off.
    B: (AQ, Kxs, TT-KK) - Bet or c/c and re-evaluate turn
    C: (55-99, 76s-QJs) - Could call light but most likely folding. Checking for sure.
    D: (check/fold rest)

    Flop: ($1.23) A, 4, 2 (5 players)
    UTG bets $0.34, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.34, Hero folds

    A: (22, AA, 44, Q+ flush) - betting for value, 3betting, stacking off
    B: (AK, AQ, AJ, J-T high flush) - c/c, bet, bet/c
    C: (9- flush, 99-KK) - c/c and re-evaluate, c/shove for value bluff, fold
    D: (c/f rest)

    Turn: ($1.91) 2 (2 players)
    UTG bets $0.50 (All-In), MP2 calls $0.50

    A: (22, AA, 44, Q+ flush) - trying to get as much as we can (77 didn't make it this far...Should it have?)
    B: (AK, AQ, J-T high flush) - betting for value (sometimes), c/c, bet/c, bet
    C: (9- flush, AJ) - c/c, c/f, sometimes bet
    D: (c/f rest)

    River: ($2.91) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Total pot: $2.91 | Rake: $0.10

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