Do you stack off here?

V is 31/11 over 85.....
Hand converter is busted....


Full Tilt Poker Game #6036767115: Table Rain Storm - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:53:53 ET - 2008/04/14
Seat 1: Anaheim Wins ($1.20)
Seat 2: chatcat4 ($0), is sitting out
Seat 3: rn72 ($10.45)
Seat 4: sweetlemon69 ($18.10)
Seat 5: LogicPoker ($0), is sitting out
Seat 6: Dinie75 ($1.85)
Seat 8: TheGusser ($12.55)
Seat 9: wapazu ($7.90)
chatcat4 stands up
LogicPoker: lol
Dinie75 posts the small blind of $0.05
TheGusser posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to sweetlemon69 [Qc Qs]
LogicPoker stands up
wapazu calls $0.10
Anaheim Wins folds
rn72 calls $0.10
sweetlemon69 raises to $0.60
Dinie75 folds
TheGusser folds
wapazu has 15 seconds left to act
wapazu raises to $1.75
rn72 folds
sweetlemon69 calls $1.15
*** FLOP *** [6d 3h Jc]
rn72 stands up
wapazu has 15 seconds left to act
wapazu bets $1
sweetlemon69 raises to $16.35, and is all in
wapazu calls $5.15, and is all in
sweetlemon69 shows [Qc Qs]
wapazu shows [As Ad]
Uncalled bet of $10.20 returned to sweetlemon69
*** TURN *** [6d 3h Jc] [Js]
*** RIVER *** [6d 3h Jc Js] [5s]
sweetlemon69 shows two pair, Queens and Jacks
wapazu shows two pair, Aces and Jacks
wapazu wins the pot ($14.45) with two pair, Aces and Jacks
Anaheim Wins stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $16.05 | Rake $1.60
Board: [6d 3h Jc Js 5s]
Seat 1: Anaheim Wins didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: chatcat4 is sitting out
Seat 3: rn72 folded before the Flop
Seat 4: sweetlemon69 showed [Qc Qs] and lost with two pair, Queens and Jacks
Seat 5: LogicPoker (button) is sitting out
Seat 6: Dinie75 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: TheGusser (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: wapazu showed [As Ad] and won ($14.45) with two pair, Aces and Jacks

Reraise pf says no.

If you're not going to stack off, you probably shouldnt call flop 3-bet?

On one hand, what a friggen donkey hand by wapazu, on the other...well, it worked.

Limp/RR PF at 10nl is often aces. Dunno why, guess they think its clever.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Limp/RR PF at 10nl is often aces. Dunno why, guess they think its clever.

Not just at 10NL. That shit is everywhere I've been (100NL & lower)

So aside from him being a 31/11... we're not stacking off here only because everyone has pretty much been burned by this in the past... the limp/raise move with aces.

Originally Posted by sweetlemon69

So aside from him being a 31/11... we're not stacking off here only because everyone has pretty much been burned by this in the past... the limp/raise move with aces.

There's a good point here...

limp/raise from EP isn't always aces, and this villain is fairly laggy, so we could probably put him on a wider range than aces....but how wide? One where queens is flipping, or only slightly ahead? And is there any value in pushing preflop vs a laggy 3/4 stack?

...just thinking aloud...

Originally Posted by d0zer

Originally Posted by sweetlemon69

So aside from him being a 31/11... we're not stacking off here only because everyone has pretty much been burned by this in the past... the limp/raise move with aces.

There's a good point here...

limp/raise from EP isn't always aces, and this villain is fairly laggy, so we could probably put him on a wider range than aces....but how wide? One where queens is flipping, or only slightly ahead? And is there any value in pushing preflop vs a laggy 3/4 stack?

...just thinking aloud...

My thoughts exactly...

If V was nitty looking at a tight table, I might suspect AA/KK looking to be tricky, sacrificing value to get some action... I guess I need to respect these kinds of plays from all players? even dirty laggy players?

Originally Posted by sweetlemon69

Originally Posted by d0zer

Originally Posted by sweetlemon69

So aside from him being a 31/11... we're not stacking off here only because everyone has pretty much been burned by this in the past... the limp/raise move with aces.

There's a good point here...

limp/raise from EP isn't always aces, and this villain is fairly laggy, so we could probably put him on a wider range than aces....but how wide? One where queens is flipping, or only slightly ahead? And is there any value in pushing preflop vs a laggy 3/4 stack?

...just thinking aloud...

My thoughts exactly...

If V was nitty looking at a tight table, I might suspect AA/KK looking to be tricky, sacrificing value to get some action... I guess I need to respect these kinds of plays from all players? even dirty laggy players?

well villain raises 11% overall so it's prob more like 7% UTG and he def doesn't l/rr that whole range. yes, villain is loose, but he is not super aggressive.

What is this 10NL? What did he buy in with?

A Limp reraise is usually A,A, but if he came in half stacked and is 31/11 over a min of 100 hands I push to the rr preflop and expect to be ahead most of his range (quick estimate; A,A-9,9 prob.; A,Qo+, A,10s+, maybe a few more).

If villian is at the point where he has a balanced limp/rr strategy, he is probably at the point where he doesn't limp/rr in a cash game and doesn't have a 20% difference in VPIP/PFR. He has to be doing this with like JJ or AQ to think about calling...and with no read, theres pretty much no way you can think that.

Originally Posted by Ltrain

What is this 10NL? What did he buy in with?

A Limp reraise is usually A,A, but if he came in half stacked and is 31/11 over a min of 100 hands I push to the rr preflop and expect to be ahead most of his range (quick estimate; A,A-9,9 prob.; A,Qo+, A,10s+, maybe a few more).

So he is limp/rr half his opening range? or whats he open raising then? don't think I've ever seen this with out KK+, but then I haven't played tons of 10nl. Pushing pre is the way to go tho, if you are going to play.

Originally Posted by reprisal

Originally Posted by Ltrain

What is this 10NL? What did he buy in with?

A Limp reraise is usually A,A, but if he came in half stacked and is 31/11 over a min of 100 hands I push to the rr preflop and expect to be ahead most of his range (quick estimate; A,A-9,9 prob.; A,Qo+, A,10s+, maybe a few more).

So he is limp/rr half his opening range? or whats he open raising then? don't think I've ever seen this with out KK+, but then I haven't played tons of 10nl. Pushing pre is the way to go tho, if you are going to play.

ya that range is too tight from ep. when someone does this from lp then i give them no credit at all.

Originally Posted by reprisal

Originally Posted by Ltrain

What is this 10NL? What did he buy in with?

A Limp reraise is usually A,A, but if he came in half stacked and is 31/11 over a min of 100 hands I push to the rr preflop and expect to be ahead most of his range (quick estimate; A,A-9,9 prob.; A,Qo+, A,10s+, maybe a few more).

So he is limp/rr half his opening range? or whats he open raising then? don't think I've ever seen this with out KK+, but then I haven't played tons of 10nl. Pushing pre is the way to go tho, if you are going to play.

I don't play 10NL either, so you may be right. The keys for me would be the read, which is lag (more unpredictable) and the buy in of villian, which I am assuming is half stacking for my analysis (oh well, let's push and see what happens, or, I don't believe him -- push!). If this is a full stack tag regular, different read. I don't usually analyze the ranges too much of smaller stacks since their raise/shove standards are wider that you would normally expect. Also, once you get into any kind of raising war with a short stack, you are so close to an all in you might as well just push.

My point is, you either fold this PF, or you stack off on this flop. Calling PF to fold on this flop is REALLY bad.

in my recent 10nl experience, a lot of times he has AA, but if he seems to have no idea about the value of hands, a lot of time you'll be able to tell by the rest of his play how 'excited' he gets about his low pp's. Adding that in because I read the thread, then sat at a table and, here you go, this just happened:


PokerStars Game #16762253685: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2008/04/15 - 23:10:14 (ET)
Table 'Seginus III' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: IceKingJay ($5.55 in chips)
Seat 2: IntenseDawg ($10 in chips)
Seat 3: mars13215 ($5.60 in chips)
Seat 4: Call-Me-Riba ($1.70 in chips)
Seat 5: ildus ($11.45 in chips)
Seat 6: Alt16 ($14.50 in chips)
Seat 7: tom504 ($9.50 in chips)
Seat 8: Chakaluga ($4.95 in chips)
Seat 9: mymF.Ahriman ($2.50 in chips)
Chakaluga: posts small blind $0.05
mymF.Ahriman: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tom504 [Ks 6c]
IceKingJay: folds
IntenseDawg: folds
mars13215: calls $0.10
Call-Me-Riba: calls $0.10
ildus: folds
Alt16: raises $0.30 to $0.40
tom504: folds
Chakaluga: folds
mymF.Ahriman: folds
mars13215: folds
Call-Me-Riba: raises $0.60 to $1
Alt16: raises $0.60 to $1.60
Call-Me-Riba: calls $0.60
*** FLOP *** [9h Td Qd]
Call-Me-Riba: bets $0.10 and is all-in
Alt16: calls $0.10
*** TURN *** [9h Td Qd] [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [9h Td Qd Kh] [9c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Call-Me-Riba: shows [7h 7s] (two pair, Nines and Sevens)
Alt16: shows [Ac Kd] (two pair, Kings and Nines)
Alt16 collected $3.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3.65 | Rake $0.15
Board [9h Td Qd Kh 9c]
Seat 1: IceKingJay folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: IntenseDawg folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: mars13215 folded before Flop
Seat 4: Call-Me-Riba showed [7h 7s] and lost with two pair, Nines and Sevens
Seat 5: ildus folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Alt16 showed [Ac Kd] and won ($3.50) with two pair, Kings and Nines
Seat 7: tom504 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Chakaluga (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: mymF.Ahriman (big blind) folded before Flop