anyone see this differently?

My image: tagg Villain:tagg Anyone play this differently?

Seat 1: JLexMAN ( $38.30 )
Seat 3: waupaca111 ( $24 )
Seat 4: yournodaisy9 ( $100 )
Seat 5: joshuapriest ( $96.35 )
Seat 6: blueboy2323 ( $84.50 )
Seat 8: ffffthis ( $77.70 )
Seat 9: DrFeelinFine ( $113.60 )
Seat 10: jmb71 ( $130.90 )
Seat 7: nutsinho ( $117.10 )
Seat 2: Leleng ( $99 )
Leleng posts small blind [$0.50].
waupaca111 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to nutsinho [ Kd Ks ]
>You have options at Table 69820 Table!.
yournodaisy9 folds.
joshuapriest folds.
blueboy2323 folds.
nutsinho raises [$4].
ffffthis folds.
DrFeelinFine raises [$10].
jmb71 folds.
JLexMAN folds.
Leleng folds.
waupaca111 folds.
nutsinho calls [$6].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qc, 9s, 7h ]
nutsinho checks.
DrFeelinFine bets [$16].
nutsinho folds.

I'd bet the flop and see what he does, it sucks being out of position with this hand. It could be a continuation with AK. Maybe if he's loose it's AQ and I could also see JJ played the same way.

Anyone else reraise preflop and probably fold if he pushes... Can you can conclusively know you're against AA or QQ because of one raise preflop?

Re-reraise preflop. Don't see why you're calling his re-raise OOP.

Bet 3/4 on the flop. If he calls, he's JJ/AQ or QQ (or is a VERY good player with a good read and has AA), then valuebet the turn and check/call the river.

Weak-tight, not tight-aggresive.
You don't have to reraise preflop, but almost no one bets 3/4 pot after hitting top trips. TAG players will reraise with AK/AQ out of position, its possible you are up against this. Either way, flop play is meaningless these days, you must venture deeper into the hand to find out where your really at.

I like reraising preflop if I'm not sure if he has aces.

Also, I'm usually in the boat of not worrying about AA when I have KK.

I'd probably lay down that flop if I don't think he's c-betting it. AA and QQ both have me beat now, and most players aren't reraising AQ or potting that with missed AK.

Rereraising preflop is one option in this hand but I don't like doing that because a smart player with aces will know you've got kings and smooth call the rere to represent queens and take your money on the flop.

I wanted the focus of the discussion to be on the flop play. I was over 95% sure that he had aces or queens because he seemed to be playing tight ABC poker. How is it even close to +ev to put any more money in the pot when that queen hits the board and he makes a bet that makes me almost positive he's got aces?

if you have kings and somebody else has aces you are going to pay them off a lot. i dont think you should lable yourself tagg after you played that hand like that. you should have reraised pf and you should have raised on the flop.

First of all, this hand does not reflect me at all as a player in terms of aggression and I am in fact very aggressive. Anyone here who plays 100nl on PP can probably verify that.

I have thought a lot about whether or not reraising preflop is good in this situation. Based on my reads, this guy has QQ-AA. If anyone here put him on a broader range, you're giving too little credit. If he has KK, I obviously can't put him on it. So here is what happens when I reraise to $25 preflop:

Case 1: He's got Queens...He calls my reraise, putting me on KK-AA and looking for the set. I don't get a nickel out of him if he misses.

Case 2: He's got aces....He either reraises me again and I fold, or he smooth calls to represent less than kk and he stacks me on the flop.

As I played it, all my money is going in on a flop other than Q or A high, expecting to get called by both QQ and AA. If it's A high, I can find out which one of the two hands he's got inexpensively and perhaps win the pot. If it's Q high (just 11% of the time) I dump my kings figuring to be behind and move on to the next hand (I lost 10 bucks, who cares?).

I'm anxious to hear an explanation of why my play is wrong from someone with a clue...(FNORD)

ok if you have a good read and really believe he has aces then that ok. i was just saying unless you have a really good read you should have played those kings more aggressively.

I don't know why QQ is going to be willing to get it all in on a blank flop, but not before the flop.

Or, why QQ isn't going to give you another dime without hitting.

Anyway, as I said, I like the fold the way it's played.

if you think hes betting more than 3/4 pot with top trips then your insane, hes protecting whatever hand he has.
I play the same way with AK, i reraise preflop and aggro bet after flop regardless of what is there. Weak-tights will always laydown without hesitation. You nut-straddlers gotta open up

"if you think hes betting more than 3/4 pot with top trips then your insane, hes protecting whatever hand he has. "

That's why I put him on exactly AA at this point.

If you really think I'm weak tight you're incredibly wrong. I had a read that this guy was very tight so I thought AK/JJ or worse were extremely unlikely. I was beat.

I don't hate your line, and I might even play it the same way. Preflop I like the call, because a reraise chases out any weaker hands for a thinking player. QQ, JJ will play only for set value and AA will probably smooth call and trap you.

The flop is the tricky part IMO. I think leading the flop for about $12-15 is okay, but again if I was the villian sitting on AA here, a smooth call wouldn't be out of the question, figuring that he's either way ahead or way behind here.
I would probably put in a healthy check-raise to about $40. If he raises or calls, I am done with the hand. It is an expensive way to find out if you're beat, but any other line w/KK is weak-tight IMO. KK is the 2nd best starting hand, and you shouldn't be afraid to play it aggressively, but be willing to fold it if you sense you're beat. Since you don't have position it makes the hand difficult to play. With position I probably just call the flop bet and reevaluate the turn.

On the flop, if you really put him on AA/QQ then the fold is a no brainer. It's just that from most players experiences it is practically impossible to put a player on two specific holdings with 95% certainty from only one reraise.

The entire hand hinges on that unlikely read. If one has that certain a read then this hand does not deserve discussion. Personally, I would have to have played thousands of hands against one player and have him showdown those specific hands numerous times and play them exactly the same way as in this hand to not take a different line- i.e. reraise preflop or lead the flop or check-raise the flop.

Tight aggresive players will reraise with any PP > TT, AK, AQ when out of position and make a strong cont bet if they manage to isolate. That's how tight -->AGGRESIVE<-- plays.

Iconoclastic put it best, it is indeed impossible to put a player on an EXACT holding. Only if a weak-tight or any other varation of a passive player reraises you preflop can you put them on a specific holding.

I think a lot of players mis-label weak-tights as TAGs.

Assume the read is weak-tight Tom, that change your opinion?

fucking nit

As villain, I play this way with ATC because it is against nutsinho. It's the sort of pot won where you can brag to your friends after.

As hero, I know this. Which makes me want to slow play a little more.

he's always been a nit

lol.. Not sure which is funnier... The fact that now nutsinho would 4b/call A2s here, or that he used to play FR.

oh that drfeelinfine, always crushing my soul

quality bump

I was like, WTF?

this thread is pretty damn lol

wow, this was standard?

standard nitsinho