200nl rivered set 3b pot

villain is running pretty nitty tag, like 13/9 restealing at around 20% against the CO. River is kinda meh, I'm sure I'm ahead nearly always but at the same time I don't think villain will ever call when he's behind and reopening the betting kinda sucks though I don't think villain is nearly good enough to shove with like AhQd to rep the nuts. There is value in not showing the villain my hand though I'm still not sure if I should raise here.

Poker Stars $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players

MP1: $221.90
MP2: $226.75
Hero (CO): $200.00
BTN: $207.30
SB: $200.00
BB: $282.40
UTG: $207.90
UTG+1: $270.90

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is CO with 7 7
4 folds, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, SB raises to $19, 1 fold, Hero calls $13

Flop: ($40.00) 4 Q 3 (2 players)
SB bets $24, Hero calls $24

Turn: ($88.00) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($88.00) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $24, Hero raises or calls?

pre seems kind of marginal. prefer a hand like AJs (which dominates the Ax hands he is quite probably using when he 3b bluffs) or JTs-87s (which will flop well for us and allow us to be aggressive postflop)

i think i like shipping the river as flushes can be considerably discounted from his range by his turn check (unless you expect him to C/R hands which picked up a FD OTT?) and we rep so little that he may talk himself into calling us down light. if anything, his sizing seems too small for it to be a bluff very often imo - i suspect most of the time he is value-betting into what he sees as a weakish range.

i could be way off though as i suck at poker

wtf jam

^ does that mean "wtf? you should jam!"? or "wtf? you said to jam rpm?" forgive my lack of interpretative skills. drunk

I don't ever expect for you to be beat.

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

wtf jam

.

would clickitback

obv shipped it in and villian snap folded

Originally Posted by ZwiFT

would clickitback

fish monger

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

wtf jam

OP plays on what they call a 'normal' table where people can buy in for more than 20bb, and often do so.

Or as they would say in russia: raise/fold small imo.

I see what you're on about m2m, but how are we so sure that random-supernit-villain is on our level?
Even if he is, we're never running a bluff like that anyway cos we're only repping 77.

Originally Posted by oskar

OP plays on what they call a 'normal' table where people can buy in for more than 20bb, and often do so.

Or as they would say in russia: raise/fold small imo.

I see what you're on about m2m, but how are we so sure that random-supernit-villain is on our level?
Even if he is, we're never running a bluff like that anyway cos we're only repping 77.

If we're never running a bluff because we only rep 77 here (and don't expect him to fold when we rep such a narrow value range) then we should shove here and expect to get called a lot.

But as played, I think shoving is a bit of an overkill, I don't think he be more inclined to bluffcatch if we raise smaller, I mean, there's not much we can have that doesn't have enough SD value to call, right?

Call, because SB maybe have straight or flush.

Originally Posted by oskar

OP plays on what they call a 'normal' table where people can buy in for more than 20bb, and often do so.

Or as they would say in russia: raise/fold small imo.

I see what you're on about m2m, but how are we so sure that random-supernit-villain is on our level?
Even if he is, we're never running a bluff like that anyway cos we're only repping 77.

I play on 100bb tables as well. They aren't labeled 'normal' tables fwiw. You are a moron. If you are insulting me for playing CAP why don't you put your money where your mouth is. Oh that's right, I have way more than you, bitch.

LOL U MAD?

are you mad at how big of a fail your life is? because I find that quite hilarious

Dude, I was joking! wtf.

Lemme esplain 2 u cos u seem genuinely enraged:
U said: ship $166 to his $24 bet in a $88 pot. I can see where you're coming from. You want villain to go: oh, he's repping the flush, but he didn't bet the turn IP, so that makes no sense... lolherocall! But since villain seems extremely nitty and prolly just wants to get this hand out of the way so he can keep enmassing fpp's 12-tabling, I'm not sure that that's the best line.
Since I know you play lots of cap lately, I made a joke incinuating that you did not see the stack sizes, which of course I know you did.
You just were completely oblivious to the joke and decided to get an itchy vagina about it.
I find it befuddling how you can as smart about poker as you obviously are, but be such an imbecile about ridiculous stuff like this. You resort to ad-hominem faster than yaaawn can type a two word sentence.

for starters i dont believe that you were joking oskar. the fact that you made an inflammatory comment after he told you off makes it less likely that you were joking. as i think that if you were joking you would reply to his post with 'lol relax man i was trying to be funny' but instead me thinks you were serious as you chose to say something inflammatory. not to mention in your i was joking wtf post you continue to insult him about it instead of dropping it. clearly showing that you have some underlying distaste for m2m. why that is only you can say. i'd guess it has something to do with the fact that he's been more successful then you and you think that you are entitled to be successful as him. and your angry that he's been moving up while you've just flat lined and been playing the same stakes for a while now. i get jealous too man but being passive aggressive about it is pretty uncalled for. probably also immature. also fwiw a shove is barely slightly more than a pot sized bet... i dont think r/f is that bad but if you always jam here with the nuts/nutted hands then you are always raising to fold and villain if aware can b3b this river all day vs you and you'll be folding 100%. que: 'no bro i can raise small here with the nuts'

oh, also your reasoning for shoving being bad doesn't really make much sense if that's your reasoning then shoving should be no different than raising small. a legit reason to raise/fold small is to allow yourself a bluffing range in this spot for this size and try to get thinner value should you ever get to this spot with a hand of similar strength (read 56s and 33,44,JJ?,AA?). not because "hes a nit 12 tabling who will just fold to a jam but if i raise small hell be way more likely to call (false)." also in terms of balance assuming that you are capable of both shoving and raising small both for value and as a bluff i'd like to hear what ranges you are doing both with and why. im curious to see how balanced you are here even though it is a rare spot

That depends on what range I would check back the turn with. But you're right, I would never shove in this spot and only raise/call the nuts until I have a note that villain is capable of running a bluff like that.

you also happened to mis-quote me in your sig. there was no exclamation mark after I said bitch.

too many ego's ITT

Egomaniacs itt

Villain has kq, aq, kk, and aa most of the time here ( as far as value hands go). I think shoving gets folds loke 90%+ here so i'm looking for a simple value raise to something like $70.

that's crazy talk, might want to get your eyes checked.

Originally Posted by reDZill4

that's crazy talk, might want to get your eyes checked.

+1

did you read any of redzills posts?

This nit semi ss'er tag villain donk probably isn't good enough to say to himself, "this shove is a bluff at least a third of the time." The board completed a flush, his bet screams one pair and he should know we know this, and our image is not yet that of one who might bluff here.

If we had air, this is a great shoving spot but it's not one where we have to balance it. The calling chance is just so far apart with shove vs 2.5/3x.

3/4 pot bet turn anyone?

Not really.
I like the check behind to attempt to control the size of the pot with a mid pair facing two overs.

checking behind the turn isn't really so much about controlling the pot as it is about not lighting money on fire. given the board texture I think we might get c/shoved on a decent amount or just c/c'd by AA/KK Qx Jx that isn't betting the turn. I think it's best to just check and try to get to showdown. I don't like using the term 'control the size of the pot' based on your hand strength because you should be thinking more about your range vs your opponents range and less about the absolute strength of your hand. Not sure if I totally got my point across clearly here so if needed I can try to elaborate.

Originally Posted by Shotglass

Not really.
I like the check behind to attempt to control the size of the pot with a mid pair facing two overs.

do you think his range only consists of unpaired cards? if so you should be betting this 100%. the fact that you only seem to analyze one part of his range (one that you beat) i suggest you look much closer into your assessment of ranges. as this seems like an overly optimistic range. and its likely that your overly optimistic range assessments bleed into the rest of your game. also i hope you mean overs to 77 and not the board because i think overs to the board are not even in his range a good portion of the time.

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

checking behind the turn isn't really so much about controlling the pot as it is about not lighting money on fire. given the board texture I think we might get c/shoved on a decent amount or just c/c'd by AA/KK Qx Jx that isn't betting the turn. I think it's best to just check and try to get to showdown. I don't like using the term 'control the size of the pot' based on your hand strength because you should be thinking more about your range vs your opponents range and less about the absolute strength of your hand. Not sure if I totally got my point across clearly here so if needed I can try to elaborate.

this

small raise!

@ zilla - I did mean that on the turn the board is showing two overs to our hand (77), maybe I should have written that and no, I don't think that his hand is only unpaired cards. With his stats and a 20% resteal v co I put him on all pp's, most broadways, Axs and a bit of garbage @<10% of his range. It'd be interesting to know what his c-bet % is because his flop bet sizing looks like a standard c-bet and I'd be inclined to float and try to take it away from him on scare cards on later streets, because right now I'm thinking that I'm behind most of the time. Which brings me to this:

@ M@M:

you should be thinking more about your range vs your opponents range and less about the absolute strength of your hand. Not sure if I totally got my point across clearly here so if needed I can try to elaborate.

Yessir, you got your point across clearly. That's one of my biggest problems (that I know of, I prolly have bigger that I haven't discovered yet)



Of course, I'm prolly totally wrong with everything that I just wrote because I still suck

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

just c/c'd by AA/KK Qx Jx that isn't betting the turn. I think it's best to just check and try to get to showdown.

Why aren t those hands betting the turn :S
are you assuming they would check behind hands that would bet sometimes for balance?

Villian has TT> Tbh

Originally Posted by rpm

pre seems kind of marginal. prefer a hand like AJs (which dominates the Ax hands he is quite probably using when he 3b bluffs)

Where did you get that info from :S :L

the book of standards

Originally Posted by The Edlets

Why aren t those hands betting the turn :S
are you assuming they would check behind hands that would bet sometimes for balance?

its 200nl every reg who plays 200nl is a huge clueless bitch who can't vbet worth shit and plays poorly in 3bet pots.

why is this thread still going

Originally Posted by bikes

why is this thread still going

at least 3 bc'ers have posted in it