The Ultimate Dilemma

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[Fnord]

A few thoughts

o The 9-5 games suck, as they're filled with pros and wanna-be pros. Expect a lower win-rate.
o Poker makes a great second job.
o Consider finding a 9-5 job you like, but may not have the huge salary you want.
o The poker bubble could burst. Particularly given the amount of money that's being sucked out of the poker economy right now via rakes, pros, jackpots, etc.

[Humphrind]

Well Rippy, I have been in a dead-end job for the past 5 years. So I'm sorry I can't feel much sympathy. I've almost gotten to the point that I expect it as part of life. You go to the job you hate to live the life you love.

If you are seriously considering going pro just to avoid "the man" than you may want to wait. Not for a lack of skill. You know what you are doing and you are a great player with a great chance at going pro. But it is a rocky business, pro poker. It's a lot more than playing winning poker. You have to manage finances and keep perfect records.

I am leaning toward Fnords idea of making poker a second job while making your 1st job something you like. Maybe you could be a casino dealer and still be around the game while making a steady paycheck. Just an idea.

But you make your own decisions. And good luck with whatever you do.

[fishstick]

A few thoughts

o The 9-5 games suck, as they're filled with pros and wanna-be pros. Expect a lower win-rate.

so, expect a lot of evenings and weekends. personally, this wouldn't bother me - i like being off when the rest of the world is working.

o Consider finding a 9-5 job you like, but may not have the huge salary you want.

that may actually be the ideal approach.

o The poker bubble could burst. Particularly given the amount of money that's being sucked out of the poker economy right now via rakes, pros, jackpots, etc.

because of this, i would make sure i could hold my own in B&M games as well.

*********

rippy, you know how i feel about this. we've talked about it enough. you're a single guy, and winnie would love you being around more.

the only thing i would strongly urge is if you give it a shot, plan for it.

get yourself some buffer cash ahead, if you've got debt, get it paid off first, etc. you're a big boy, you know what you need to do.

and if you can't tell, i'm all for it!

i have the easiest job in the world, for the nicest company in the world, and still dread coming in everyday. i feel your pain.

good luck, rip!

gimpstick

[Krapp]

Well it sounds like your a bit unconstrained currently in life (maybe most of the marrired folks gave-up on this type of thought many years back) other than paying the bills and debating the dilema of working (any type of work where your an employee seems unfullfilling) to pay the bills vs playing poker (but its not a slam-dunk living salary). I say that b/c once you get married, have kids, have debt, etc... people generally realize life is a balance of individualistic enjoyment vs sacrifice.

Ok, so what to do? Well working 10-hours a day to make a meager salary and wasting another a fews hours to prepare for work is a complete waste to me other than paying the bills. The accomplishments made at work are remotely satisfying and maybe some character building (soft skills, tech skills, etc), but overall a waste. Especially true if your spiritual, non-confirmist, etc. However, working is comfortable and does provide an "easy", "non-stressful" way to pay the bills. In my experience, it never gets better than that. You sacrifice 14-hours / day for a "nice", "easy" salary. You give-up enjoyment for comfortability... Sales folks have it a little easier, since you are commisioned based, but you still deal with the same garbage of being an employee.

Ok, so what do these folks do? Go back to school, work for a dot.bomb, quit, or become an entrapuneur (either consulting or own business, self sales (insurance, homes) etc). For me, not doing anything is not an option. I either must be accomplishing something or at least occupied. With those needs, I would prefer some type of self business (consulting, sales, franchise, etc). Typically the investement type of self-businesses require upfront capitol, which most people dont have at a young age. Consulting requires an expertise in a subject (maybe Poker Tutor). So a likey choice is sales of some sort. The main requirement for these is some type of license (home, insurance, stocks, etc). These types of work get you unbound from a typical corporate environment and the amount of pay vs time invested is not as linear. My vote would be to get some type of license, develop product knowledge, soft skills, and you should be successful.

Why do I say this? Well, with the self sales type of jobs, you dont necessarily need alot of time to make a comfortable living and the rest of your time you can play poker. These types of jobs can make great money, hours are flexible, etc.

What I wouldnt do. I wouldnt just start and play poker full-time, unless you are 100% convinced you can make a decent living (pay the bills) at an acceptable level of hours spent. For example, if I can track at $100 / day playing poker, but my comfortability is at 52k / year, I would want to prove consistently that I could make $300 ($400 for safety) / day. I would be a bit turned-off at correlating that to living off of tourney wins. For one, I dont have experience in them and it would be hard to demonstrate the you would be good enough to make money at live or online tournies. However, if you could play 3-4 3/6 tables profitable, I would think that would be enough to secure 200-300 bucks a day at least. Plus the ring games give proven performance of profit over time so can have some comfortability that youll pay the bills.

It doesnt sound like your the type of person that would just quit and play poker unless you had a proven revenue steam (rich wife, parents [j/k]) and it doesnt sound like poker is a proven revenue stream currently. I would suggest in your spare time, building a convincing track record of making profit at tournies and when the stats show you are dominating, make the leap.. results over time the only indicator of success. Of course, you could win the lottery, WSOP and retire and then play poker w/o any constraints.

I have been toying with the idea of how much money I could make at poker if I spent my whole time at it. I am tracking about $100/day and could push $200+ if I moved up in the limit tables. However the losing streaks are stressful (even more stressful if I was counting them as primary income), but I havent had a bad week in a few months and I am average 600+ games / day. At these rates, I could entertain maybe 52k before taxes... maybe the same amount as a college grad... is it worth it? probably not since I a have a family and kids. However when it gets to 100k+, Ill be the first one to give my resignation.

Good luck and maybe someday you can "crack the nut"

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[FyrFytr998]

Damn Rippy I feel for you. Hope it works out for the best.

[chanman83]

rip,

I feel for ya bro. Its tough to have to work a 9-5 job where you know in your heart your REAL 9-5 is poker. I know all us here would rather be a pro in poker than have to work a 9-5er to DA MAN. Myself, I know its my career and that I still have time for poker. Your right, life is short and we must take full advantage of it. I know you hate doing that new job you got but... it helps pay for that roof on your head and keeps money in your wallet.

I think as Fnord said, you can still rock the poker world and still work. Again, I'm a bit differetn for i'm twenty years young, but all that exp that you go, I know you have a great chance of going pro.

Hey bro, if you feel ALIVE and well at the poker table than damn, If I was you work to get that bankroll up and then boom, say f u to the job and make poker your job full time. I know you got the skills bro, but gotta take home the bling in those games.

As always you got my full support on what you decide but I'm still saying you should work for a bit then once that bankroll is ready... BOOM poker FULLTIME!

[jmrogers7]

Well, this is definitely something that I would say the majority of people battle with within themselves each and every day. I would be lying if I said that I don't wish that I could play poker for a living. Hell, what I would really love to do is be in a rock band and make music for a living. For me, there is nothing like the release of making/playing music. You get lost in another world when you are giving your soul to something that you truly enjoy doing. When I'm playing my guitar or seeing myself outplay an opponent at the poker tables it's like everything in the outside world is gone and it's just me doing the activity that I love and feeling the rush (from poker) or tranquility (from music) that is the incredible product of what I'm doing at that moment. And for that, there is no substitute.

However, I have to keep telling myself that this is REAL life. This is not some romanticized movie where the dreamer always achieves his dream at the end. In life, we have things that we have to take care of. Like it or not, we all have bills, need food to survive, and whether we want to admit it or not, we all have a need for a certain level of security within our lives so that we know that we can take care of our basic needs regardless of anything else.

So, that leads to making compromises. I know that in order to provide for my family I have to forego some of the joy that I get from music and poker in order to meet the needs that I and my family have. I know that in order to live the life that I am accustomed to and provide that same level of life for the people that I love I must give up some of the personal satisfaction that I get from the things that I am most passionate about.

But, you know what? I am OK with that. These are sacrifices that I am willing to make because I could not live with myself as a person if I were to let down myself and the people that love me by pursuing something that is selfish in nature. Granted, my family would fully support any endeavor that I might want to take on should I ever choose to do so. I am blessed in that way for certain. And if the opportunity ever presented itself where I knew that I could sustain a certain level of stability for myself and my family then I would most certainly jump at the chance to chase my dream. But, I am alright and at peace with myself knowing that I can still enjoy the things that I love to do without it costing me the things that I love to love. Make sense?

I don't know how much help any of this is. It's merely my take on a subject that I think everyone deals with more frequently than they would probably admit.

I guess the one last thing that I would say to you is, don't over-romanticize the life that you think that you want based on things that you have yet to truly experience. I know that you aren't naive enough to believe that you won't struggle. You seem to be intelligent and I think that you are probably aware that you will probably endure some tough times, especially at the beginning. Lastly, don't live your life with any regrets. But, don't dive in unprepared. Not wanting to look back on your life and seeing things that you regret not trying is admirable. Just be prepared before you begin trying.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[heatman]

I echo what others have said. You're relatively foot-loose and can make decisions based on what you want. I can't, I've got a family to feed.

If playing poker is what you want to do, I say go for it. But do it wisely and do your best to ensure success. Get a bankroll, whether its through playing big tourneys in your spare time, or through saving every dime you can from that job until you can give this a run for a year or more.

Try to look at your job as the enabler you need to cover your fixed costs and put a little aside. If you can't get excited about the work itself, get excited about it because its what is going to make your dream a reality.

Here's a suggestion:

Figure out what you will need for living expenses if you play poker full time. If you think you can make that playing poker, prove it to yourself by sucking that much out of your poker bankroll and putting it aside for a year, while you play part-time. You might have to pro-rate, given that you won't actually be playing full time. But say you need $50k from poker to cover living costs, and can only play 30 hours per week right now. If you assume you'll be playing 60, plan on taking $2k a month out of your bankroll. Don't touch that money. If you were playing full time, you wouldn't have it, the landlord would.

Match that with what you can save from your job, and if you're successful at the end of the year you'll have a stake that could cover a little over half a year's expenses. Watching that bankroll grow would keep me motivated to go sell advertising, and putting a year of focused money management behind me would give the confidence to go for it.

Good luck!

[leon_rts]

I say Pursue your dreams , Later when your older youll Regret , at least its what all the old chaps i know say about various stuff in life they look back and wish had done things different

[allLiving]

I'm only 17, but I will just give you my insight. (Probably a goofy one)

You only live once right? I say you pursue your goal of being a poker pro. You definetly have the skills to do so. I also feel the same way about poker and jobs. Although I haven't had a REAL career, I can already see that that type of lifestyle will be boring. Unless I'm my own boss I don't think I'm going to enjoy working like that, in a cubicle or wherever it may be. I'm more independant, and I like to feel the thrill of winning a huge pot. The enjoyment and craving to feel alive is enough for me personally to want to continue playing poker. It's your choice, but I say you only live once so you might as well live it up.

This plan probably isn't the answer you're looking for, especially with the benefits of jobs and the amount of $$ you would make, I'm just saying that I'd rather have fun and feel alive and possibly make less, or quite possibly make alot more than have a job that I don't enjoy.

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[allLiving]

I think that's a smart, well-thought out plan you've just considered. You'll do well at those live tournies. Keep your head on straight and have some confidence. I'll see you on the WSOP someday and I'll be able to say "I know that guy!"

[FyrFytr998]

I don't know Rip. Is there anyway to play the live games without sacraficing your online play? From all I know about you. You just seem to have the knack for killing the online rooms. Wouldn't that help your purse a little better than playing live against a little better caliber of player? And please don't take that as a slander of your skill. I just think there is more fish for you online than live. I mean we saw the cr(gay)ew segment where they're running like multiple computers with multiple screens. Could you handle something like that? Where you just get in that zone.

Either way good luck whatever the choice.

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[FyrFytr998]

Rippytyde wrote:
Plus the whole point of wanting to play professionally is to take my game to a different level and travel to play big events. Sitting in my office 8-12 hours a day staring at a monitor(s) whether I was making a living or not doesn't seem that attractive of a prospect.

But just imagine the comforts of being able to play in your very own FTR thong!! Just like the ones Fishstick wears. :P You could even do him one better and add the FTR stiletto heels in patent leather.

[krazyace5]

I just read through alot of posts and have forgotten half of my replies...
I will post what I can remember.

As far as a job, if you go poker pro check out getting a real estate license, you are in sales and this would be something you could do when you want if needed.


Lots of pros came from worse jobs than you and made it, wasn't Scotty Nguyen a dishwasher? Of course that probably makes the decision easier too.


As far as live play being tougher than online play-I do not believe that is the case. I play online right now in the $1-$2 games. When I played live all they had was $5-$10 games and I had no problem with those crappy players. Even my first and only(so far) live casino tourny I played in had some of the worst players I have ever seen. I have heard the same from others too.

If you have never played live(besides home games) give it a shot, very fun and lots of fish.

[thenextbigthing]

Goodluck on your desicion bro. I have yet to venture this deep in the poker world so I could not possibly give you sound advice...

I just know it sounds cool on TV or major tournys where they say "heres John/Jane Doe at the final table, hes an accountant/construction worker/writer/ or home wife"...you have to pull for that guy/woman because they are able to balance a normal life with poker, hence why we love seeing Chris Moneymaker win the wsop last year and why we love seing the normal guy win.

I imagine playing poker fulltime would present you with alot of stress, alot of unwanted stress over a period of time.

Goodluck in whatever you decide, keep us updated.

(the normal guy)

-TNBT

[!Luck]

I am young as well, but maybe i can give you at least one bit of advice. You said you grew bored with the play online? Didn't when you start playing online you would start at 7pm and then realize it 4 am. It WAS exciting it was unbeliable(win or lose) but over time you needed more. What if you are succeful at pro poker but it becomes just as boring. Just compare how long it took you to get bored of online poker as compared to your job and the many challanges it has. Just a thought good luck with your choice.

[michael1123]

I thought about that exact same question in Luck's post. Definitely something worth considering.

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[stuck]

Perhaps you could try a sort of half-way step before making the leap (or not making the leap). Get your bankroll high enough, then take a two week vacation from work (if this is in any way possible) and then play poker full time during those two weeks, and see how it goes. Certainly it might not be the best of sample sizes, but it could give you an idea of how you'd do long-term.

I'd treat it as nothing more than as an item to help you make your decision, though.

[TheDoc]

words of another taken from www.tuckermax.com

It took me over a decade to realize my destiny. I fought it forever; econ major in college, went to law school, quit/fired as a lawyer, went to work running my dads business--I finally had to have a crisis of conscience before I quit that whole path and could force myself to do what I should have done the whole time: Write. I was writing on the side the entire time, I just refused to recognize that this was my passion. Me as a writer didn't fit my pre-conceived model of success.

My life is nothing at all how I predicted it. I knew I would achieve some measure of success and fame, but I never allowed myself to believe it would be in the entertainment industry. I always thought I had to check the boxes and follow a conventional path to success. Ironically, I took the conventional path for so long because I thought I "had" to be a success, and I was worried that by taking a non-traditional route I would fail, so I had to be a lawyer, I-banker, whatever.

But even once I knew I would become a writer, this is not what I thought it would be like. I thought I would become a writer by imitaing the standard "writers" voice and then going through all the same channels that everyone else does. I did that, got turned down at every stop, and finally just said fuck it and went at it completely my own way.

The irony is that once I got rid of that notion, I took a route so non-traditional it was literally unheard of--if I succeed, I will be the FIRST totally non-mainstream writer to go from the internet to where I am going. I will have skipped most of the "traditional" steps in between, even in my chosen field.

The best advice I can give you is to stop and figure out what it is you love to do. What motivates you. You can only find that by exploring lots and lots of different things. You may end up stumbling backwards into your passion like I did, or you may find it right away, but either way you have to get out of the bullshit you are doing to find it. You can't see the sun if you are buried in shit.

[Bite]

If you make a big score that boosts your bank roll then give it a shot. Why not? You should be able to get an ordinary job again if everything else fails right?

However, I think as well as Luck and michael1123 that it could become a boring job in the long run grinding it out in long hours every day. Unless you become a really successful pro (Chan, Ivey etc.) you will have to put in a lot of hours to be able to earn a good living on it. I think you will have no problem living on it if you give it a serious shot but I wouldn't wanna grind it out every day just to earn a little more than I do in a day job with social insurances and stuff. To be worth it I think I would multiply that sum by 10 or 20 per year at least. I played long hours of poker for a couple of months and I got really tired of it tbh. I got tired of the stupid one's, the ones that made me money. It felt like a regular job. I too think live games are more fun but I think that would change too if I had to grind it out every day.

But as you mentioned in a post above, life is short and you should do something you love to do. So if you really think you can keep your passion for the game even during the hard times then why not go for it? I assume you won't be standing on the street if it should fail but that you can get a descent job again. Otherwise I would probably not take the shot.

[Radashack]

go to the job you hate to live the life you love

I disagree with that statement. You should use the job you hate as a stepping stone to the life you love, If you have condemed yourself to this philosophy you will never get past it. If you have goals for nothing bigger, nothing better. You'll will achieve what you want. Its like a gerbal who will run on wheel for hours, never getting anywhere. I used to think the same way, because it was drilled into me. By parents, by teachers, by friends fo the family, by friends, ect.

Now I can't stand to be a moment in my life, when I don't have atleast 1 plan on how I will take my life to the next level. The job I type this at currently is a stepping stone. A launch pad for the rest of my goals.

Ripp, you are a great player, your understanding of the game is solid, your fearless approach makes you a animal. Never comit your life to the 9-5er if thats not what you truely want. Opportunity often arrives at the most inopportune time, sieze it. Read the stories of the people who make it in life, Poker pros, big businessmen, entrapeneurs. These are the people that planned for their passions, often risking much, and often crashing a few times. The make it however.

Best of luck you you, I'll help you out every step of the way.