Plus guest appearance by Clinton, who has been AWOL recently
Thoughts?
01-07-2017 11:52 PM
#1
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Tuition-Free College in New York StatePlus guest appearance by Clinton, who has been AWOL recently | |
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01-08-2017 01:06 PM
#2
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Amazing. I can only imagine what good Bernie could do if his supporters didn't turn their backs on him after the DNC stole the nomination from him. | |
01-08-2017 06:24 PM
#3
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Government intervention in education has already done so much damage, why not have it do more? Youths are growing up later, graduating less informed about reality, more subservient to political authority, with fewer critical thinking skills, and with fewer productivity skills and less time to use them in. We should keep doing more of what's causing that! |
01-08-2017 07:43 PM
#4
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I would like to add that I think schools are great. I can't think of a better idea. If I ever have kids, I will likely homeschool them in K through 10 then have them do running start in 11-12 then university for the remaining two years. But I think government is causing a great deal of damage to the entire school system. K-12 has become daycare, where kids learn nothing as well as they learn how to avoid effort and hate themselves. Kids would fare far better with parents deciding what kind of education they receive than the government. College is being pushed in this direction. It's turned into 13-16th grade. Standards are falling and curricula are becoming less independent of the pro-government narrative. |
01-08-2017 07:47 PM
#5
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So many people in college (and even in high school) today would be better off if they were working and developing careers and making money and developing the kind of skills that can only be learned on the job. But this can't happen as much anymore because the government pushes so much money at college that so many more people are attending college, which increases the supply of labor with degrees, which incentivizes employers to no longer examine applicants that don't have degrees. |
01-08-2017 08:01 PM
#6
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It's very hard to argue that education as a whole is something that has gotten worse when the reality is that the time frame in which education has been anywhere near it's current form means that comparing it to pretty much any other time in history now wins out by a country mile. What times specifically are you referring to when you keep saying education keeps getting worse? |
01-08-2017 08:40 PM
#7
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If we're talking price and debt, that has been quantified many times and pretty much nobody disagrees. It has been skyrocketing and this trend is recent. It correlates with government guaranteeing loans. |
01-08-2017 09:12 PM
#8
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I love the old trope about how my exams were harder than your exams. With regards to maths education, and I more so speak about the UK, what we've actually seen is an infinitely better approach to testing children than we had 40 years ago and whilst kids may not be able to do as much in terms of width of learning they certainly understand the work that they cover much better than their parents generation. |
01-08-2017 09:15 PM
#9
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I'd agree that the whole protect our children thing is mostly bollocks (not a recent thing though) what we have currently is better than when teachers used to kick the crap out of students. |
Last edited by Savy; 01-08-2017 at 09:19 PM. | |
01-08-2017 10:58 PM
#10
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In income terms, going to college instead of learning a trade probably has the highest opportunity cost right now than it ever has. |
07-01-2018 07:10 PM
#11
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07-01-2018 07:57 PM
#12
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It sounds like the results of Finnish schools could be due to one of many different reasons. |
07-01-2018 09:46 PM
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07-01-2018 09:58 PM
#14
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Last edited by wufwugy; 07-01-2018 at 10:03 PM. | |
07-01-2018 11:15 PM
#15
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07-01-2018 11:44 PM
#16
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I thought we were talking about the schools kids attend, because that is what you posted about. |
07-02-2018 12:23 AM
#17
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ALL schools are free in finland wuf, including universities. Also in Norway and Germany btw, but let's not sidetrack. Not just "the schools kids attend". | |
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07-02-2018 12:32 AM
#18
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Some marketing speak | |
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07-02-2018 12:37 AM
#19
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07-02-2018 12:52 AM
#20
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I should respond to this specifically. |
Last edited by wufwugy; 07-02-2018 at 12:55 AM. | |
07-02-2018 01:09 AM
#21
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I should clarify that it isn't the case that facts within the scope of some economic phenomenon typically point towards one thing. They usually point towards opposite things at the same time. But people tend to only see one side of it due to things like confirmation bias and selection bias. |
07-02-2018 03:08 AM
#22
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Must be convenient to work in a scientific field where all opposing experimental data can be dismissed. | |
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07-02-2018 09:18 AM
#23
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07-02-2018 09:33 AM
#24
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Free college is by far the worst idea ever thought up. It's foul manipulative demagoguery. "Hey, rich white kids get to go to college, and they do great. If your kid gets to go to college, your kid will do great too" That's bullshit. I mean, REAL wet stinky bullshit covered in flies. |
Last edited by BananaStand; 07-02-2018 at 09:37 AM. | |
07-02-2018 09:59 AM
#25
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It isn't our best uni, it's actually ranked 6th here it seems. The top one is #91 globally. There's 26000+ colleges in the world. | |
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07-02-2018 02:14 PM
#26
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Oh you Negative Nancy, you | |
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07-02-2018 02:44 PM
#27
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Despite his lapses into sensibility, you can't argue with Mr. Stand when he puts on his tinfoil hat. | |
Last edited by MadMojoMonkey; 07-02-2018 at 02:46 PM. | |
07-02-2018 03:12 PM
#28
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There, FTFY. | |
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07-02-2018 03:27 PM
#29
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Thanks for that info. The other fields get the short end of the stick. | |
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07-02-2018 09:55 PM
#30
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Finland is a pretty bad case study for education excellence and a system that should be used all over the world. There are lots of reasons for this and you can actually pick countries out that take incredibly right wing views to education and do better and have done better by the same (fairly nonsense) criteria these things are judged upon. |
07-02-2018 10:04 PM
#31
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07-02-2018 10:04 PM
#32
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07-02-2018 10:10 PM
#33
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Yeah it's recently pumped loads of money into the system and completely change the way they are going about things. It's had good results for a fairly short amount of time. You'll see this type of pattern happen every 5-10 years and as soon as testing criteria starts to change they tend to start performing worse again and the countries that change their approach for the new testing criteria tend to do better etc. |
07-02-2018 10:14 PM
#34
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07-02-2018 10:18 PM
#35
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It's also massively important to realise that cultural differences mean that what works well in one country has absolutely no guarantee to work in another. If you tried doing what they were doing in Finland in the US it literally would not work and there would be uproar. There is also pretty big evidence that what benefits the whole doesn't necessarily result in the best outcomes. IIRC the best results are something like Chinese kids living in Australia and they blow away other similar samplings. Yet Australia doesn't do well in test scores internationally, doesn't get looked at as an example of education. |
07-02-2018 10:20 PM
#36
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07-02-2018 10:33 PM
#37
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I never expressed an opinion about the Finnish system. |
07-02-2018 10:40 PM
#38
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Savy hit on several of the important components for why univariate analyses of school systems aren't useful. |
07-02-2018 11:01 PM
#39
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I made a mistake in using the "free" framing of school. |
07-02-2018 11:10 PM
#40
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Where did you get this information? Also, shouldn't any system be constantly refined and improved? | |
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07-02-2018 11:12 PM
#41
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07-02-2018 11:17 PM
#42
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07-02-2018 11:31 PM
#43
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I realize I've been trying to talk in shorthand and it's making things confusing. |
07-02-2018 11:39 PM
#44
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I've spent the last year learning about education, talking to people involved in shaping education, particularly in maths in this country so they tend to be pretty aware of what's going on in the world scale. |
07-02-2018 11:39 PM
#45
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This article offers some insight: | |
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07-02-2018 11:43 PM
#46
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As for the constantly improving and changing part of your argument yeah they probably should but it's very hard to do. Places that do well tend to have a more long term educational policy and stick to it because funnily enough a plan tends to be better than flip flopping every few years like we do in the UK. |
07-02-2018 11:44 PM
#47
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07-02-2018 11:44 PM
#48
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And one of the reasons the educational system in America is so bad is because schools literally can't fail. Waiting for Superman is a very good film about it, I suggest watching. |
07-02-2018 11:45 PM
#49
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07-02-2018 11:49 PM
#50
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Hmmm | |
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07-02-2018 11:58 PM
#51
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07-03-2018 12:47 AM
#52
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The US certainly does have two school systems (roughly speaking), though I would caution about the claims made as for why that is. The mainstream view today may say things like "legacy of segregation", but top tier thinkers like Thomas Sowell would point out that these failing communities did very well in spite of segregation and that it was after segregation ended that different nefarious policies were instituted that caused the issues we have today. |
07-03-2018 08:03 AM
#53
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You're really not helping your case here. The premise of this conversation is that Finland has this sensational, world class, education system. And yet, your *best* university barely cracks the top 100. Does not compute. |
Last edited by BananaStand; 07-03-2018 at 08:06 AM. | |
07-03-2018 08:26 AM
#54
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C'mon man, you have to admit, that "marketing material" wasn't exactly blowing anyone's hair back. |
07-03-2018 09:17 AM
#55
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That video is bullshit propganda. |
07-03-2018 11:41 AM
#56
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Now that is news. | |
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07-03-2018 12:34 PM
#57
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ooooohhhhhh Nokia.....I'm sooooooo impressed!!! |
07-03-2018 12:43 PM
#58
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#90 is an abysmal result for a country boasting the *best* k thru 12 program. |
07-03-2018 12:45 PM
#59
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Oh yes, walmart | |
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07-03-2018 12:47 PM
#60
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07-03-2018 01:29 PM
#61
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07-03-2018 02:40 PM
#62
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07-03-2018 04:20 PM
#63
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07-03-2018 04:32 PM
#64
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I didn't spin any math, its facts, brought to you by your own apparent research, as university rankings seem of utmost importance to you | |
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07-03-2018 04:44 PM
#65
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what is 0/00? I've never seen that before. | |
07-03-2018 05:21 PM
#66
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07-03-2018 05:56 PM
#67
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Huh, cool. Never seen that used before. | |
07-04-2018 05:51 AM
#68
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Finland supposedly has the best educated, most prepared college aged population of anywhere else in the world. Therefore, it would follow that Finland's top university is the creme de la creme |
07-04-2018 09:13 AM
#69
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Sigh. Here troll, come take a bite. No one afaik claims that Finland has "the best educated, most prepared college aged population". Many seem to think though that Finland's educational system is one of the best in the world. The university rankings you keep quoting for some reason are based on things like student/teacher ratio, international student ratio, expert opinions etc. Nothing to do with student performance, and how could they be since there are no standardized tests. The standardized international tests that do exist, such as PISA, generally always rank Finnish students near the very top. | |
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07-04-2018 10:42 AM
#70
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Can I have some of what you're smoking? Seriously. Did you really just say that? Are you that bad at reading, or did you just go to a Finnish school? |
Last edited by BananaStand; 07-04-2018 at 11:05 AM. | |
07-04-2018 10:57 AM
#71
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07-04-2018 11:59 AM
#72
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I find the strategy of ignoring him is going exceedingly well. | |
07-04-2018 12:19 PM
#73
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Given what I know about how the Finnish system works, there's plenty that I can think of that could positively impact people. |
Last edited by wufwugy; 07-04-2018 at 12:24 PM. | |
07-04-2018 12:29 PM
#74
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The value of an education is not just what you learn; it's in learning HOW to learn. | |
07-04-2018 12:31 PM
#75
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