Trump is the WWE and Mueller is The Undertaker

[Poopadoop]

Fucking off without telling her is a perfectly acceptable way to end a date with an idiot.

No, it isn't. Some people can't help being idiots. Doesn't give you the right to be a total loser.

I mean if she had done something to you personally like insult you or w/e, maybe it's fine, but just 'cause she has a different view of the world you don't agree with, nah, sorry that's a douche move.

[OngBonga]

I mean show some balance. If she did that to him, you'd want to high five her. Equality, yo.

[OngBonga]

Doesn't give you the right to be a total loser.

We all have the right to be a total loser. What we don't have the right to do is break the law.

[OngBonga]

Obviously he's not paying for hers 'cause he wouldn't do that if there was nothing in it for him.

I dunno, assuming you planned to go halves, well paying for the entire meal ensures she has taxi fare to get home, which ensures you're legally safe in terms of taking reasonable steps to ensure her safety.

[oskar]

http://www.msnbc.com/craig-melvin/wa...63943?v=raila& genius @ wurk


And call me shocked that banana is socially awkward and afraid of women. SHOCKED!

[Poopadoop]

I mean show some balance. If she did that to him, you'd want to high five her. Equality, yo.

No, I'd call her a classless douchebag too.

[Poopadoop]

http://www.msnbc.com/craig-melvin/wa...63943?v=raila& genius @ wurk


And call me shocked that banana is socially awkward and afraid of women. SHOCKED!

Well at least he pronounced "Niger" properly, so banana can keep supporting him.

[oskar]

C'mon guys at what point do you realize that you're mostly upset about things you're imagining. Like banana being upset that he imagines white men would be treated more unfairly than Serena Williams. Or you imagining that mexicans are majority muslims. Or you imagining how we would react if something that didn't happen would have happened.
How sheltered are you when you have to remove yourself that much from reality just to get upset.

[Poopadoop]

I dunno, assuming you planned to go halves, well paying for the entire meal ensures she has taxi fare to get home, which ensures you're legally safe in terms of taking reasonable steps to ensure her safety.

Since when, when two people go on a date, is one responsible for the other getting home safely? It's not like he took her to a dark alley and then left her there. It's a restaurant. I mean if she's only 14 maybe you'd have a valid point.

[OngBonga]

I wasn't being entirely serious. But still, that's the only way I see it being a proper dick move... if you leave her in a potentially risky situation. Simply ditching her, well it's a dick move for sure, but we're all capable of being a dick. Let's not pretend we're angels. Would I do it? If she was annoying enough.

[OngBonga]

I wonder how long the hostess waited before telling his date?

[Poopadoop]

Simply ditching her, well it's a dick move for sure,

...which was my entire point. But you think it's ok when the person annoys you. Not insults you or abuses you, but just annoys you. That's a poor excuse for being a dick imo. I mean I run into annoying people from time to time, and I work with some who are annoying, but I don't take it personally, and use it as a justification to be a dick.

[Poopadoop]

I wonder how long the hostess waited before telling his date?

It's a good question and makes the point his dickishness put the hostess in an awkward spot too.

The next question is did banana stop to rub one out in the parking lot knowing he'd made two different people suffer?

I'm guessing yes.

[OngBonga]

...which was my entire point. But you think it's ok when the person annoys you.

I think it's ok to be a dick. If I said it wasn't, well I guess I should hate myself.

[Savy]

Who makes a scene on the first date? I'd just laugh at her.

Having a girl scream at you in public always makes you look like the bad guy no matter what the reason is.

[BananaStand]

You guys can judge if you want. But this woman was fully out of control. if I went back there and said "Hey, this militant libtard act doesn't work for me. See ya", then I'm sure I would be put on facebook or something so everyone in this rural area can see the "fascist, racist, sexist ass hole". Not doing that. I'd much rather she think I ditched her because she's shockingly ugly (she also looked nothing like her pictures, which is basically fraud in my book).

I dont' see why I'm obligated to sit there, listen to her word-barfs, and pay for her lunch just because I was dumb enough to be duped by pictures that are at least five years old. Fuck that. I paid for her glass of wine, and didn't waste my time. If she feels bad, I don't care. Seriously, I don't care. She's the one who sat down and started with "I don't understand how any intelligent person can be ok with Trump".

Ok, well I'm an intelligent person. Let's see how smart you feel when you realize that not every man out there will smile, and nod, and agree with you just to get in your panties. I don't need to get laid that bad. Yeah, there were classier ways to handle this. But again. I don't care. I've already decided that this is NOT a person of value. Yes I mean that. Why do I care what her feelings are?

I honestly feel like I did a public service

[OngBonga]

I think you're in zugzwang. Whatever move you make is a bad one. If you sit there and have dinner with her, you're wasting each others' time and leading her on. If you tell her to shut up and talk about something else, you're being rude. If you ditch her, you're a dick.

People who have already judged you, well they're going to jump on any opportunity to call you a wanker.

[BananaStand]

Having a girl scream at you in public always makes you look like the bad guy no matter what the reason is.

Right.

[Poopadoop]

Having a girl scream at you in public always makes you look like the bad guy no matter what the reason is.

Who freaks out on a first date? You guys are imagining things that just aren't very likely.

And so what if you look like 'the bad guy'. It's funny imo. Just smile and turn and say 'it's alright folks, it's our first date, she's a little nervous'.

[Poopadoop]

People who have already judged you, well they're going to jump on any opportunity to call you a wanker.

Well first, yeah, it's an awkward situationh. But second, taking the pussy way out shouldn't be the default solution. At least he paid something.

[BananaStand]

Who freaks out on a first date? .

This broad!!!

[BananaStand]

You'll get a kick out of this one Poop.

I was once just mere hours from a first date with an absolute smokeshow. Then this uppity bitch decides to get all cautious and safe or whatever and decided she wanted my last name. Something about telling a friend who she was with or some paranoid feminist crap like that.

So I told her my last name. Date cancelled.

Turns out my ex wife is her therapist.

We really could do a whole thread on Banana's crazy dating stories.

[OngBonga]

a) she has every right to cancel a date for any reason she sees fit,
b) she's a cunt and should be ashamed of herself.

[Poopadoop]

Assuming the story is being relayed accurately, she should have done her homework before agreeing to the date. But, once she found out it was banana, its hard to blame her for wanting to bail.

What's more interesting to me is the sequence of events involving the smoking fox and banana's ex, and how banana came to find out that relationship existed, and then how he came to find out he'd been outed as a consequence.

I imagine it went like: smoking fox makes the date with banana. Before she goes on it though, she has a session with her therapist that goes like this:

Therapist: So what's new?
SF: I met a guy online and we're going on a date.
Therapist: Great! Don't forget to take your anti-psychotics this time. Tell me about him.
SF: His name's banana and he's an accountant, yay tall and with yay hair and yay eyes.
Therpaist: Oh God no!
SF: What?
Therapist: I think you'd better find out his last name. I think that's my angry cunt of an ex.
SF: Really?

Next day, SF calls banana
SF: So say banana, what's your last name?
b: Why, bitch?
SF: I just wanna know, that's all.
b: Fuck you.
SF: Is it 'stand'?
b: Ya, so what bitch?
SF: The date's canceled. Have a nice life.
b: FUUUUUCK YOUUUUUU!!!!!!
SF: No, you won't.

then banana gets on the phone to his ex and she says 'ya I saved my patient from you, you angry cunt.'

Seems about right.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Must. not. ridicule. over. failed. marriage.
Keep it together, Monkey.
It takes 2 to make it good or bad.


Whew.

Close one.

[BananaStand]

wow, that's some imagination you got there.

It went like this:

Fox: What's your last name?
me: Stand
Fox: Wait, are you related to Mrs. Stand?
Me: Yeah that's my heartless cunt of an ex wife
Fox: Oh that's my therapist
Me: Oh shit
Fox: Yeah, guess we can't be friends, that would be too weird.

Quite harmless really. It's just the small-world coincidence that makes it one of my more unusual dating anecdotes. But I see it's not landing here. I have other stories if you want. Just ask me "Hey Banana, what happens when you answer a craigslist ad in Vegas"

[Poopadoop]

wow, that's some imagination you got there.

Thanks.

It went like this:

Fox: What's your last name?
me: Stand
Fox: Wait, are you related to Mrs. Stand?
Me: Yeah that's my heartless cunt of an ex wife
Fox: Oh that's my therapist
Me: Oh shit
Fox: Yeah, guess we can't be friends, that would be too weird.

Apart from 'heartless cunt of an ex-wife', I like my version better.

[BananaStand]

Must. not. ridicule. over. failed. marriage.
Keep it together, Monkey.
It takes 2 to make it good or bad.


Whew.

Close one.

Not sure what I posted that's worthy of ridicule here? But as I've said before, my ex wife has more rings than Belichick. If you think she's easy to get along with, I'll be happy to introduce you.

[Poopadoop]

Not sure what I posted that's worthy of ridicule here? But as I've said before, my ex wife has more rings than Belichick. If you think she's easy to get along with, I'll be happy to introduce you.

She sounds lovely.

You're probably better off not dating her patients from the sound of it.

[BananaStand]

I like my version better.

As you do with most factual accounts.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Not sure what I posted that's worthy of ridicule here?

Nothing at all. That was my point. It takes 2 to make a relationship good. It takes 2 to make it bad. If even 1 person is really trying to make it work, it will be OK, but not good or bad. It goes bad once both people stop trying to make it work. That's not a condemnation of anyone or anything. Relationships are hard work, and not all relationships are worth the effort.

[BananaStand]

Nothing at all.

Well something sparked your compulsion to ridicule. Feel free to say what it is. I'm not afraid of any conversation. Don't worry about pulling any punches with me man.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Let's just say that I was tempted to say something stupid and mean for the sake of amusing myself, and I decided that wasn't a good enough reason to be stupid and mean.

I don't actually wish unhappiness on anyone.
Even though I did take some personal joy in recently dusting off the banhammer, I don't wish unhappiness on you, either.


Sorry that attempt at finding love didn't pan out for you.
I hope you find what you need in that department, and if your current single-status is not helping, then that sucks.

[Savy]

Who freaks out on a first date? You guys are imagining things that just aren't very likely.

And so what if you look like 'the bad guy'. It's funny imo. Just smile and turn and say 'it's alright folks, it's our first date, she's a little nervous'.

A normal person wouldn't but people are weird.

Also your last comment just makes me assume you've never had a girlfriend lose her shit with you in public.

[Poopadoop]

you've never had a girlfriend lose her shit with you in public.

No because I'm too cool and don't do tactless shit.

[BananaStand]

Let's just say that I was tempted to say something stupid and mean for the sake of amusing myself, and I decided that wasn't a good enough reason to be stupid and mean.

Alright, but please know that you'll get no such courtesy from me.

I don't actually wish unhappiness on anyone.

We should have a talk about the Amish. Also, have you spent any time with someone who chews tobacco??

If you could push a button that would give you free cable for life, but it means 3 tobacco chewers would die, would you do it??

I fucking would. Twice.

Even though I did take some personal joy in recently dusting off the banhammer,

That was kind of a cunty move. You know exactly what that guy was.

If you'd like, I could enlighten you on the difference between a dignified, valuable, socially well adjusted gay man, and a person who should be set on fire for absolutely no other purpose than utilitarian efficiency of helping to set something larger on fire faster. But to explain that, you'd have to put the ban hammer down

I don't wish unhappiness on you, either.

Did you not know that I'm white? Or are you some kind of racist?

Sorry that attempt at finding love didn't pan out for you.

Honestly, I think it was fine. I think I knew early on it wasn't gonna last. It ended relatively amicably. I got three healthy kids out of it. And I broke free while I can still get erections. Not ideal. But not all that bad.

I hope you find what you need in that department, and if your current single-status is not helping, then that sucks.

I'll admit, whatever I'm seeking is a rare bird that even I cannot define. Most of the women I attract are either A) divorced, with kids, and looking to play brady bunch. B) baby crazy. Or C) About to become baby crazy. I have no interest in any of that.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Alright, but please know that you'll get no such courtesy from me.

It wasn't a courtesy to you, but to myself.

We should have a talk about the Amish. Also, have you spent any time with someone who chews tobacco??

I've never met an Amish person, so I have no opinion about any Amish people.
I don't recall ever hearing of an Amish crime wave or any genocides committed by anyone saying it's the Amish way.
So it's got that going for it, I guess.

I'm friends with a guy who chews tobacco and yeah, it's not an attractive look, but I'm not trying to date him, so I don't care. Besides, I got married women telling me like once a month they'd ditch their husband for that guy. So I guess it's not too ugly.

I'm more offended by unwashed heathens on the metro sharing their BO with the rest of us.

If you could push a button that would give you free cable for life, but it means 3 tobacco chewers would die, would you do it??

lol, no. WTF?
Them chewing tobacco is nothing to me.
I don't have or want a cable subscription, either. TV is the opposite of entertainment, and there isn't a single non-entertainment news source on American TV, so I'll stick with my internets.

I fucking would. Twice.

Right. But... the chewing tobacco thing was a red herring, wasn't it?
You'd press any button that kills 3 random humans that aren't you or your kids for a piece of gum.

That was kind of a cunty move. You know exactly what that guy was.

Kinda funny how there wasn't a single complaint from anyone that I acted out of line, though, huh?
Kinda interesting that the conversations over that day you were gone involved a lot of people pretty much understanding each other and progressing from point to point in an organized manner.
Kinda interesting that people actually were able to educate each other without the white noise of condescension and (frankly) expertly veiled insults you shovel around, huh?

I don't know 'exactly' what anyone is, not even myself. I've surprised myself at what I can accomplish many times, often good, sometimes bad. I've seen both my parents reinvent their lives after they were over 60. No one knows the depth of what they are / will be.

If you'd like, I could enlighten you on the difference between a dignified, valuable, socially well adjusted gay man, and a person who should be set on fire for absolutely no other purpose than utilitarian efficiency of helping to set something larger on fire faster. But to explain that, you'd have to put the ban hammer down

What have I ever done that even hints that I would like that?
I have never cared for your spew of ridiculous, insular justifications of why you happen to be the arbiter of what is good and right in this world and whom deserves what - as if there isn't a clone of you half-way round the world saying identical shit, but they're the hero in their version, and you're the villain. Difference? Location of birth.

Did you not know that I'm white? Or are you some kind of racist?

I've heard you tell us you're white and I have no reason to think otherwise.

IDK, maybe I am the kind of racist who wouldn't turn down a bank loan which would be denied to me if I wasn't white. Maybe I am the kind of racist whom gives lip service to equality but will take advantage of the rights and services I receive based solely on my skin color. I probably am. It'd depend on my knowledge of the severity of the situation before I denied myself services I need on moral grounds.

Honestly, I think it was fine. I think I knew early on it wasn't gonna last. It ended relatively amicably. I got three healthy kids out of it. And I broke free while I can still get erections. Not ideal. But not all that bad.

That's... the most healthy-minded, adult thing you've ever posted on FTR.
I'm glad to hear it.

I'll admit, whatever I'm seeking is a rare bird that even I cannot define. Most of the women I attract are either A) divorced, with kids, and looking to play brady bunch. B) baby crazy. Or C) About to become baby crazy. I have no interest in any of that.

Don't stop looking. It doesn't matter what "women" like. Just the one woman you're looking for. She's looking for you, too. The rest of them can do whatever, look like whatever, be as crazy as whatever, etc.
When you find the right woman, it will blow your mind at how easy things can be. Relationships are still hard, and will always involve sacrifices and compromises, but when you find the right one, all the negotiations become a passing conversation where you both immediately get where the other is and adjust accordingly.

[BananaStand]

Don't stop looking. It doesn't matter what "women" like. Just the one woman you're looking for. She's looking for you, too. The rest of them can do whatever, look like whatever, be as crazy as whatever, etc.
When you find the right woman, it will blow your mind at how easy things can be. Relationships are still hard, and will always involve sacrifices and compromises, but when you find the right one, all the negotiations become a passing conversation where you both immediately get where the other is and adjust accordingly.

I'm guessing you've never been married

I think my plan is to continue with the status quo until my kids are grown. After that who knows. I'm perfectly content being solo and have passed up opportunities for a serious relationship because I value my independence. I'm worried I won't like it so much when I'm in my 50's though. So maybe by then I'll find some transplanted Florida trash in her mid 30's, buy her some new tits, and spend the rest of my days yelling at her piece of shit son to get off my god damn couch

[MadMojoMonkey]

Never married, but with the same woman for over 10 years.
No kids. I don't want kids because I value my independence.
Look at that, we have something in common.

[Poopadoop]

It doesn't matter what "women" like. Just the one woman you're looking for. She's looking for you, too.

Maybe banana should change his ad to say: "Angry cunt looking for woman who doesn't have or want kids. And you better support Trump and watch Fox News, bitch. p.s. Fuck you."

There's gotta be someone out there who'll respond to that. I mean women marry serial killers on death row, so there's obviously a market for angry cunts.

[BananaStand]

Never married, but with the same woman for over 10 years.
No kids. I don't want kids because I value my independence.
Look at that, we have something in common.

But you're in a monogamous, long term, committed relationship. Do you live together?

Where is the "independence"?

How old are the two of you? It's possible that her "baby-crazy" just hasn't kicked in yet.

Feminism has pushed the schedule back quite a bit in recent decades. Chicks don't really start to panic until after 35

[MadMojoMonkey]

Yes, monogamous, long-term, living together.
The independence is in my lack of obligations to raise children occupying 90% of my waking thoughts.
The independence is in the lack of a need to ever find a babysitter.
The independence is in the lack of needing to spend most of my money on clothes, food, school supplies, etc. for any children.
The independence is in the freedom to take a week-long vacation without needing to buy 2x as many plane tickets, meals, hotel rooms, etc.
The independence is in never being awoken in the middle of the night by a screaming human whom is too ill-equiped at their current age to deal with simple human emotions like being afraid of the dark.

Seriously, I could go on for quite a while.
The benefits of having kids are all lies told by the limbic system.
People say their kids make them happy, but I'm not buying it. Sure, there are little spurts of happiness, but on the whole it's a shitshow of stress and obligation. I can accept that you get a great deal of fulfillment from raising a family, but fulfillment is not the same as happiness.

After you've invested a couple decades of your own stress, you get a human friend whom is among the best, most loyal to be had. That's a great bonus after all that stress, but not worth it, IMO.

[The Bean Counter]

Having a girl scream at you in public always makes you look like the bad guy no matter what the reason is.

Was chatting to a couple of serial Tinder-ers in the office over a beer recently and there's a fair few head cases out there and there's a good reason why they're single.

Who pays seems to still be a problem as well. The standard still seems to be the guy offers to pay, but the key is for the woman to offer to pay half and you can either agree if it didn't go well, or suggest she pays for the next date if everything is good. If a woman doesn't offer to pay half then you know she's a princess and you wouldn't call her back anyway.

Anyway, long story short. Guy at work offers to pay in full (edited: wrote half before), gets shouted at in the restaurant for making the suggestion, having the audacity to think she can't pay her way, etc. Then at the end of the night, is surprised that he doesn't want to see her again.

[The Bean Counter]

Never married, but with the same woman for over 10 years.
No kids. I don't want kids because I value my independence.
Look at that, we have something in common.

How are you managing to avoid the marriage question? I'm asking for a friend...

Assuming you both agree on that and the kids?

[OngBonga]

I'd offer to pay for the first date, with the caveat she can pay for the next one. If she doesn't want another date, fair enough.

Then again, if I didn't like her, I'd probably suggest she pays half. Either that or do a banana.

[BananaStand]

Wow...

maybe I'm just old fashioned. Or maybe I'm just a sexist chauvinistic pig. I really don't know.

But I find it dubious that you all call yourselves "men" and don't just simply assume, going in, that you'll be paying fully for the first date, and several dates after.

Seriously you guys.......do you even like pussy?

[Poopadoop]

The standard still seems to be the guy offers to pay, but the key is for the woman to offer to pay half and you can either agree if it didn't go well, or suggest she pays for the next date if everything is good. If a woman doesn't offer to pay half then you know she's a princess and you wouldn't call her back anyway.

This is my understanding of the protocol too; seems to work for me.

Anyway, long story short. Guy at work offers to pay half, gets shouted at in the restaurant for making the suggestion, having the audacity to think she can't pay her way, etc.

Does not compute. If he's only offering half how is that thinking she can't pay her own way?

That said, I always offer to pay the whole thing every time whether I like her or not. I've been on some first dates who rubbed me the wrong way, but never did it occur to me to lolbail without saying anything. I've cut a couple short though, and never got a freaked out reaction about it. Maybe I need to date more immature women, dunno.

[Poopadoop]

Wow...

maybe I'm just old fashioned. Or maybe I'm just a sexist chauvinistic pig. I really don't know.

But I find it dubious that you all call yourselves "men" and don't just simply assume, going in, that you'll be paying fully for the first date, and several dates after.

Seriously you guys.......do you even like pussy?

Ya, I think you should well into the relationship before you worry about whether she should start putting up cash. If she offers before then, great, but if not I don't think that's a red flag exactly.

I wouldn't be on the second or third date thinking 'she better offer to pay half this time or this thing's over.'

Might be different for younger people though; I'm closing on 50 so...

[BananaStand]

Yes, monogamous, long-term, living together.

I notice you didn't answer the age question. I'll take that to mean that her biological alarm hasn't gone off yet. So if you're at all serious about this no kid thing....I'm going to give you some sincere advice right now. Secret Vasectomy. You're welcome.

The independence is in my lack of obligations to raise children occupying 90% of my waking thoughts.

What??? Just don't be a bad parent, and take a big % of your thoughts back.

The independence is in the lack of a need to ever find a babysitter.

Ummmm.....they have a mother.

The independence is in the lack of needing to spend most of my money on clothes, food, school supplies, etc. for any children.

This is kinda pathetic. Kid clothes are cheap. They eat very few calories, and in the first years, they get it right from the cow anyway. And how much do you think school supplies are? Kids have smartphones now. They don't need to buy graphing calculators. If any of this is a problem for you, then you need to find a better job. The kids aren't the problem here. If you're saying that not having kids gives you the 'freedom to underachieve'.....that's not a reason to celebrate.

The independence is in the freedom to take a week-long vacation without needing to buy 2x as many plane tickets, meals, hotel rooms, etc.

I can see how this might be a problem if you're someone who rides the bus to work. However, if you had a kid, I'm guessing you'd get yourself a car. Now, imagine you had a car. A car can take you roughly 400 miles in a day. Draw a circle on a map around teh city of St Louis with a radius of 400 miles. Are there any viable vacation spots in that circle?

Why would the kids get their own hotel room? And if you didn't go on vacation, you'd still have to buy the kids meals.

The independence is in never being awoken in the middle of the night by a screaming human whom is too ill-equiped at their current age to deal with simple human emotions like being afraid of the dark.

Right, you need your rest for that grueling work day you have, lol. And honestly, this almost never happens. If you're a good parent, your baby will be sleeping through night by 4 months old, and then you get on with your life.

Seriously, I could go on for quite a while.

Please do.

I can accept that you get a great deal of fulfillment from raising a family, but fulfillment is not the same as happiness.

Happiness is not a viable goal. Check out Jordan Peterson (maybe you already have). He explains it best. Life isn't about finding happiness. It's about cultivating a 'meaning' that will sustain you through tragedy. Huge difference.

Take the people who aspire to retire "sipping margaritas on a beach". That's not happiness. That's a travel brochure. In real life, after 8 margaritas, you wouldn't be good for anything except a hangover. After a week of that, you'd be bored out of your mind. After a month, you'd be horribly depressed, of not suicidal.

Happiness is just not a viable doctrine. It takes more to live a good life.

After you've invested a couple decades of your own stress, you get a human friend whom is among the best, most loyal to be had. That's a great bonus after all that stress, but not worth it, IMO.

Dude....you are in denial

I mean, you've already explained to me that you get satisfaction from seeing students learn how to blow up soda cans. Imagine teaching a person more than just blowing up soda cans. Imagine you get to impart every single piece of knowledge and wisdom that you know. And then you get to watch that manifest in another human being. And when you see that human being succeed because of it, it is indescribably validating. Basically your alleged job-satisfaction x1,000,000,000.

How in the world did you come to the conclusion that the only "bonus" here is making friends??

[MadMojoMonkey]

How are you managing to avoid the marriage question? I'm asking for a friend...

Assuming you both agree on that and the kids?

Neither of us is at all excited about big formal affairs, or of big social events, or about keeping up appearances for the rest of the world.
Her parents sometimes give her a hard time about getting officially married, and that makes her a little antsy for a few hours, but then that passes and we're back to normal.
Having a piece of paper that is recognized by the state which affirms that we love each other is worth literally nothing to either of us. The fact that we're expected to throw a huge party and invite a bunch of people whom are acquaintances at best is a turn-off to both of us. Her family (her mom, really) has made it clear that they'll be disappointed if we just go to city hall and have no celebration.

We don't care one way or the other about the marriage title. Her parents want her to do something that neither she nor I want to do, and she doesn't want to disappoint them or do something she doesn't want to do, so here we are.

I made it 100% clear the moment there was a hint that we'd be dating that I am never going to want kids, and that this isn't something for her to ignore or to think she can change my mind about. I definitely do not want kids and if she sees herself as a mom someday, then I am not the man for her. She's never tried to broach the subject to change my mind.

[MadMojoMonkey]

@Nanners:
Are you seriously trying to convince me* to want kids?
After all your BS about how you're literally scared for society that a man like me is allowed to be an educator?

I'd think you'be be singing praises that my genetic line ends with me.
You're a basket case, you know that?

*No. I'd wager you're trying to convince yourself that your choices are the best and only acceptable choices and when confronted with another person's choices, you are personally so insecure about what you have chosen that you must do what you can to convince that other person to agree with you.
The notion that someone could think differently than you and still have a perfectly consistent and working world-view is beyond you.

[OngBonga]

Wow...

maybe I'm just old fashioned. Or maybe I'm just a sexist chauvinistic pig. I really don't know.

But I find it dubious that you all call yourselves "men" and don't just simply assume, going in, that you'll be paying fully for the first date, and several dates after.

Seriously you guys.......do you even like pussy?

And several dates after? That's why you're getting dates but not action.

I mean, if the woman expects me to keep paying, I assume she's just in it for a free dinner. It's not a good start. Show some self respect, some independance. Make me think that if I dumped you, you wouldn't go psycho.

[BananaStand]

@Nanners:
Are you seriously trying to convince me* to want kids?.

No, I'm challenging you to think critically about the validity of your objections to kids.

After all your BS about how you're literally scared for society that a man like me is allowed to be an educator?

Maybe you'd change your ways if the stakes were higher.

I'd think you'be be singing praises that my genetic line ends with me.

I'm not complaining

You're a basket case, you know that?

Hmm, I'd wager this statement is just you trying to convince yourself that your choices are the best.

*No. I'd wager you're trying to convince yourself that your choices are the best and only acceptable choices and when confronted with another person's choices, you are personally so insecure about what you have chosen that you must do what you can to convince that other person to agree with you.

lol, wrong again. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to not have kids. You haven't named one. Pointing that out is not me trying to convince myself of anything.

[BananaStand]

And several dates after? That's why you're getting dates but not action.

Who said I'm not getting action?

I mean, if the woman expects me to keep paying, I assume she's just in it for a free dinner

If she was just in it for the free dinner, she would only do it once. That seems to be the norm. Too many desperate guys out there to buy the next dinner.

It's not a good start. Show some self respect, some independance.

I think being a stickler for the $50 it costs you to pay for her half of the date, is probably the least independent-looking thing you can do.

Make me think that if I dumped you, you wouldn't go psycho

what patriarchal misogynist crap is this? If a man pays, a woman owes him? And if she withdraws, she should legitimately be worried about a psychotic reaction? That's crazy. And if you're playing along with that narrative by making the woman pay, you're just retarded.

[OngBonga]

Who said I'm not getting action?

I thought you implied it. Maybe you didn't. But you're still dating, so clearly you haven't found a keeper, even if you're getting laid sometimes.

If she was just in it for the free dinner, she would only do it once. That seems to be the norm. Too many desperate guys out there to buy the next dinner.

I suppose, but then again why not get as much out of dude #14 before moving onto dude #15?

I think being a stickler for the $50 it costs you to pay for her half of the date, is probably the least independent-looking thing you can do.

Respecting and expecting independance from a woman shows a lack of independance on my part? On the contrary, a man who is happy to keep paying is probably insecure and doesn't want his date to find another mug.

what patriarchal misogynist crap is this? If a man pays, a woman owes him? And if she withdraws, she should legitimately be worried about a psychotic reaction? That's crazy. And if you're playing along with that narrative by making the woman pay, you're just retarded.

You misread that. The "you" i was referring to was the woman. My language wasn't the best. And I wasn't being totally serious, I was intending to imply that women who are not independant are needy and more likely to go psycho if you leave them.

[BananaStand]

I thought you implied it. Maybe you didn't. But you're still dating, so clearly you haven't found a keeper, even if you're getting laid sometimes.

I'm really not sure I want a keeper. You can't convince me that life-long monogamy is something that's even natural or healthy for human beings to do.

I suppose, but then again why not get as much out of dude #14 before moving onto dude #15?

because you have to talk to dude #14 more than once, and in between dates. Most women are self-serving bitches. Their egos can convince them that they're legitimately open to having a relationship with guy #14, and thus they don't feel guilty for exploiting him for a free meal. But if you want two free meals, then you have to sociopathically lead this guy on. And you'd have to do it knowingly, which results in guilt. And why do all that when guy #15 is sitting there with his credit card out.

Respecting and expecting independance from a woman shows a lack of independance on my part?

If you think asking a woman for money is the same as "respecting her independence", then we really need to have a talk about the birds and the bees man.

On the contrary, a man who is happy to keep paying is probably insecure and doesn't want his date to find another mug.

Maybe this is true, I just don't like how you worded it. Men do all kinds of things to impress women. Women find all kinds of things impressive. Financial security is a major turn on. No matter what those militant feminists tell you....women LOVE being treated.

[Poopadoop]

Anyone who goes around expecting women to pay half right from the get-go is a cheapo imo. It's nice if they offer but if they don't it's not strike 3 or even strike 1 or 2.

Can you be exploited? Sure, if you're an idiot and don't have your radar up, I guess you can be convinced someone likes you when they don't. Most people aren't that dumb.

[BananaStand]

Anyone who goes around expecting women to pay half right from the get-go is a cheapo imo. It's nice if they offer but if they don't it's not strike 3 or even strike 1 or 2.

Can you be exploited? Sure, if you're an idiot and don't have your radar up, I guess you can be convinced someone likes you when they don't. Most people aren't that dumb.

I dont' even like when they offer.

There's something primal and manly with providing a woman with food. I mean, it's not like "Here, eat this mammoth, and thank me for helping you not die of starvation by making babies!", but it's definitely run by the same neurological reward system.

[The Bean Counter]

Does not compute. If he's only offering half how is that thinking she can't pay her own way?
[/QUOTE]

My bad. Meant to type in full. Have edited.

[BananaStand]

BTW....@MMM just get fucking married huh?

If it's your assertion that your life would be exactly the same except you'd have a piece of paper, then why NOT do it?

You know your assertion is wrong, right? Your life would be exactly the same, but you'll have contributed to the meaningful fullfilment of your lover's parents. Obviously, it means something to them. Their role in your successful relationship is not small. Making people that you love happy seems like something you're into. So just fucking do it.

Also....probate. The longer you live unmarried, the more this becomes a problem. Don't fall for the "but common law, 7 years...." myth. It's not that simple.

[The Bean Counter]

Neither of us is at all excited about big formal affairs, or of big social events, or about keeping up appearances for the rest of the world.
Her parents sometimes give her a hard time about getting officially married, and that makes her a little antsy for a few hours, but then that passes and we're back to normal.
Having a piece of paper that is recognized by the state which affirms that we love each other is worth literally nothing to either of us. The fact that we're expected to throw a huge party and invite a bunch of people whom are acquaintances at best is a turn-off to both of us. Her family (her mom, really) has made it clear that they'll be disappointed if we just go to city hall and have no celebration.

We don't care one way or the other about the marriage title. Her parents want her to do something that neither she nor I want to do, and she doesn't want to disappoint them or do something she doesn't want to do, so here we are.

I made it 100% clear the moment there was a hint that we'd be dating that I am never going to want kids, and that this isn't something for her to ignore or to think she can change my mind about. I definitely do not want kids and if she sees herself as a mom someday, then I am not the man for her. She's never tried to broach the subject to change my mind.

Pretty much agree on the marriage thing. I find the idea a bit ridiculous, plus I'm not religious. I've been under pressure in the past (I think she feels societal pressure and likes the idea of it), but that's waning. We have a mortgage together and never argue, so all good.

On the kid front, I'm getting to the point in my life when I'm more for it. Completely agree that you need to get that sort of thing straight into the open though (if you're definitely against it). Better that than somebody thinking you've led them on for years and taken away some of the best years of their life.

[BananaStand]

I made it 100% clear the moment there was a hint that we'd be dating that I am never going to want kids, and that this isn't something for her to ignore or to think she can change my mind about. I definitely do not want kids and if she sees herself as a mom someday, then I am not the man for her. She's never tried to broach the subject to change my mind.

Sheesh. You make it sound like this is a collaborative engagement.

All she has to do is "forget" to take a pill and you're done. In fact, if she hasn't done this yet, you might start to wonder what that says about you.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Are you seriously trying to tell me my love life isn't good enough for you as though I give a nanoshit about your judgement?

Clown.

[BananaStand]

Are you seriously trying to tell me my love life isn't good enough for you as though I give a nanoshit about your judgement?

No, that's you reading one thing, and then turning it into something else completely different just so you can get a hate-on for me.

You obviously give a nano-shit about something.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Sorry, but my emotional response to you is indifference, not hate.

[BananaStand]

Sorry, but my emotional response to you is indifference, not hate.

Who are you trying to convince? Me or you?

Just so we're clear, there are many things about your life that I consider as failing to meet a reasonable standard. Your love life isn't one of them.

I will say you're making a mistake not getting married if you indeed do intend to spend your life with this person. It's obviously a major source of life anxiety for her parents. And she can obviously be compelled to care about it quite easily, so that's not nothing. And the probate considerations are significant. It's one fucking day of your life and a little bit of jewelry. Stop being such a pussy.

Your reasons for not having kids are pretty weak. Incredibly weak actually. It looks to me like you felt that way when you were younger, drew that line in the sand, and are now afraid to waver. You've cognitive-dissonanced yourself into this position and now you're stuck. But whatever, maybe you do have a legit reason for not wanting kids, and you just dont wanna say it here. That's fine.

But if that's your stance, then put your vas deferanse where your mouth is and get snipped. Bitches say they're on the pill, but they lie! Yes ALL of them! Also, it's totally possible to just get one by the goalie

[Poopadoop]

You told me you don't want my advice and you obviously don't respect me at all, so here's what you should do...

lmfao what a loser.

Like I said, "oblivious."

[BananaStand]

lmfao what a loser.

Like I said, "oblivious."

Somebody has to set the boy right.

And he totally does listen to me. That's obvious.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Ummmm... you're so out of touch with what's going on here, nanners.

I'd have more respect for a retarded person whom is kind than a genius whom is a douchebag anyday.

You are a tool of epic proportions. You haven't humbled yourself to learn from anyone here on any topic discussed.
You're here to preach, and nothing more.

The occasional smart thing that comes from you is great and all, but you're still reprehensible when it comes to your people skills. That's coming from me. Damn, you're bad at conversing. Bad at listening. Bad at distinguishing what you assume from what you know. Bad at offering the benefit of doubt to people whom are putting up with your shit.

Pull yourself together, man.

[BananaStand]

You are a tool of epic proportions.

How much longer do you wanna do this?

This is your reaction to being challenged to explain your objection to Tucker Carlson? Your explanation was shit, and I explained why, extensively, using factual details. Your response is "but you're so mean!!".

fine. You don't wanna sit here and say something like "ok Banana, you make salient cogent points, I admit I can't find a logical way to support the notion that diversity for diversity's sake is a good idea" I get that will never happen. It's kinda disgusting though that your endgame here is this puerile tantrum. Do you feel good now?

Sorry if I'm not moved by the rantings of a professional soda can blower upper who rides the bus to his job as lab-bitch for spoiled snowflakes, and then rides the bus home to a woman who doesn't seem to value your presence enough to codify it permanently. I got a feeling that you were the smartest kid in school, but then in real life you got clobbered by guys like me. And maybe that's helping to drive all this resentment.

Anyway, I hope you got it all off your chest. Anytime you wanna get back on topic, the question at hand is

"Is Diversity our Strength"

Is that true? Why is it a mantra repeated so much? What does it mean? Are there times when non-diversity could be preferable? What binds America together? What shared values makes us a country?

If you think those are racist questions...please tell me why you think that, in detail, using facts and logic please.

[Poopadoop]

Personally, I think banana has a superb point and he should continue to explain it in great detail, and with as little regard for social decorum as possible.

It's the only way we'll learn.

So please banana, enlighten us with your vast wisdom regarding why diversity is America's Achille's heel, and why all that stuff they wrote on the Statue of Liberty and in the Constitution is leftist crybaby snowflake bullshit.

[BananaStand]

It's the only way we'll learn.

Don't tell me it hasn't worked in the past.

[OngBonga]

To those throwing the word "diversity" about like it's a badge of honour... if you take 100 white people, you have a diverse group of people, since everyone is different. People who say that to be diverse means that some people are white and some people are black, those are the people obsessed with skin colour.

Now tell me, if we take a group of sheep, and throw in some foxes, is that diversity good? What about if we introduce grey squirrels into a territory controlled by red squirrels?

How about... I'm different because I smoke weed. So let me go to a school and talk about the diversity of intoxicating substances. Or maybe I can talk about how being single and watching porn is less stressful than a meaningful relationship.

Diversity is great if what makes people different from one another isn't a clash of culture.

[CoccoBill]

From my understanding, those who talk for diversity typically mean that it isn't something that should be avoided at all costs, it's not something that's necessarily negative. This pertains to all kinds of diversity, be it color, culture, skills, world views, tendencies. Anyone who's ever worked knows that the most effective team is one with multiple strengths, we need people who are good at mathematics/technical skills, people with social skills, people with decision-making skills etc. All cultures have something for others to learn from, if nothing else by bad example. On the other hand, if someone thinks diversity is only positive in all cases, they're clearly an idiot.

Then there are those who oppose diversity, and this is pretty much all borne of fear. Fear of strangers, of people that look different and seem scary, of losing your job/spouse/economical stature, of violence, crime and terrorism. They see diversity, immigration and change overall as threats, and if you're only using your lizard brain, fear is by far the strongest emotion and motivator.

Diversity can be a big asset, but it requires an environment open to integration, giving the immigrants possibilities to act as productive members of society and feel welcome. If immigrants feel accepted, they are far more likely to adopt the new culture, aka integrate. Prejudices are probably the biggest reason for failures in integration.

[Poopadoop]

Don't tell me it hasn't worked in the past.

Really? Well maybe it will work now then.

ANSWER THE QUESTION !!!!! WHY IS DIVERSITY BAD?????? I'M FREAKING OUT AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!