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Trump Is Reality TV, Mueller Is The Wire

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  1. #676
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/18...s-mueller.html

    I'm starting to seriously think that it might be time to start hoarding canned goods, bottled water, and ammunition. Whether Mueller moves to indict Trump, or whether Trump fires Mueller...either way the reaction will be massive, widespread, and violent.

    It's gonna be bad.
  2. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/18...s-mueller.html

    I'm starting to seriously think that it might be time to start hoarding canned goods, bottled water, and ammunition. Whether Mueller moves to indict Trump, or whether Trump fires Mueller...either way the reaction will be massive, widespread, and violent.

    It's gonna be bad.
    Why do you think Trump hired Mueller? Why do you think he hasn't fired him at any of the points where it would have been easily justified? Why do you think Trump hasn't given Mueller a Forever Name?
  3. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Why do you think Trump hired Mueller?
    He didn't. Rosenstein did.


    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Why do you think he hasn't fired him at any of the points where it would have been easily justified?
    Because 1) he can't, only Rosenstein can; and 2) every other day he sees Dershowitz on Fox News telling him it would be a bad idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Why do you think Trump hasn't given Mueller a Forever Name?
    Maybe he's saving it for the trial.
  4. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    He didn't. Rosenstein did.

    Because 1) he can't, only Rosenstein can; and 2) every other day he sees Dershowitz on Fox News telling him it would be a bad idea.
    The Reality TV President has got the audience looking at exactly what he wants them to.
  5. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Why do you think Trump hired Mueller?
    Because he's an egomaniac unfamiliar enough with DC politics to believe that Mueller would dig into the facts, expediently find nothing, and exonerate him.

    Why do you think he hasn't fired him at any of the points where it would have been easily justified?
    Because Mueller hasn't exonerated him yet.

    Why do you think Trump hasn't given Mueller a Forever Name?
    He's waiting until he can dub him "Exonerator"
  6. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Why do you think he hasn't fired him at any of the points where it would have been easily justified?
    When was it ever "easily justified"? If we found out that THIS GUY was really Mueller in disguise, Trump still couldn't fire him 'easily'.
  7. #682
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    When was it ever "easily justified"? If we found out that THIS GUY was really Mueller in disguise, Trump still couldn't fire him 'easily'.
    I recall a few times big news breaking that showed Mueller had nothing. Trump would talk about firing him but not going through it. Then the days would go by and people would forget that Mueller has nothing on Trump until some new drama would fabricate.
  8. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Because he's an egomaniac unfamiliar enough with DC politics to believe that Mueller would dig into the facts, expediently find nothing, and exonerate him.


    Because Mueller hasn't exonerated him yet.


    He's waiting until he can dub him "Exonerator"
    I find this a credible point of view. A credible interpretation is that Trump is acting way too arrogantly here. Or stupidly (more like inexperienced in this specific domain).

    Honestly I don't even disagree with the view. I'm not sure what I think is more likely: the Trump admin is investigating other crimes with Mueller as a smokescreen or an aid, or if the Trump admin is using Mueller to get exonerated....or a third option, that the Trump admin is using it as a way to control the news cycle and get things done behind the scene. Each of these have >0 probability, and there is some overlap between them.

    It's the idea that the Trump administration is legitimately investigating itself that has near non-existent credibility. The slimest sliver of credibility it has emerges from the belief that Trump and his administration is beyond incompetent, which doesn't stack up to the evidence (yet does stack up to the hallucinations of Trump Derangement Syndrome).
    Last edited by wufwugy; 04-18-2018 at 10:04 PM.
  9. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I recall a few times big news breaking that showed Mueller had nothing.
    lol.
  10. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    It's the idea that the Trump administration is legitimately investigating itself that has near non-existent credibility.
    Do you think Nixon was investigating himself too? How about Bill Clinton?

    Explain how this is different.
  11. #686
    Wuf, you're fixated on this idea that the administration is a singular entity no matter the level of zoom. It is a bit less hierarchical than you seem to think. We don't have an autocracy, and that's a good thing.

    If you step back from this very rigid idea that the executive branch doesn't deviate from a pure hierarchy, I think the probabilities you assign to all the possible things Mueller is up to will shift dramatically.
  12. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Wuf, you're fixated on this idea that the administration is a singular entity no matter the level of zoom. It is a bit less hierarchical than you seem to think. We don't have an autocracy, and that's a good thing.

    If you step back from this very rigid idea that the executive branch doesn't deviate from a pure hierarchy, I think the probabilities you assign to all the possible things Mueller is up to will shift dramatically.
    It can certainly be the case that Mueller thinks he is up to stuff. Indeed I think it's very likely that Mueller thinks he's investigating Trump in good faith. And it's what his bosses -- Trump, Sessions, and Rosenstein -- and the boss of the latter two -- Trump -- think that also matters.

    Perhaps you are right that I'm not thinking enough about what Mueller is thinking. And you're not thinking enough about what Trump is thinking. What do you think Trump is thinking/doing? Why do you think that a man that works closely with Trump and that Trump has direct firing power of hired Mueller the very next day that Trump interviewed him? Why do you think Trump has not used any of his usual tactics to stop something to stop the supposed Mueller investigation? Why do you think Trump's very close friend, Sessions, "sits back" while his employee supposedly tries to destroy his close friend and boss? Why do you think Mueller is still around even though nothing tying Trump to a crime has come to pass, many times of which there were lengths in which the Mueller's political capital was paltry? What do you think the Reality TV President would do in this situation?
  13. #688
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Do you think Nixon was investigating himself too?
    Congress made that happen. A crime had been committed and Congress was adamant in making sure it was investigated properly. Nixon couldn't stop it.

    The current situation is nothing of the sort. No crime has been identified and Congress is not pushing for anything. This "investigation" comes from the choice of Trump, Sessions, and Rosenstein.

    How about Bill Clinton?
    Wasn't that a Congress thing too?
  14. #689
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    lol.
    Ya laugh and yet here we are, still nothing.
  15. #690
    You know what, screw that. Just look at the facts, remember them across all relevant domains.
  16. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I think it's very likely that Mueller thinks he's investigating Trump in good faith.
    Someday, someone on Mueller's team is gonna write a book about what Mueller was really thinking. That's gonna be an interesting book.

    Why do you think Trump has not used any of his usual tactics to stop something to stop the supposed Mueller investigation?
    I still say that Trump is just holding out for the big payoff. Mueller holds a press conference and says "Trump is clean". The fact that Mueller has gone so far beyond his intended scope has got to be infuriating to Trump. Mueller should have reached the end by now and had that fucking press conference.

    If this were Trump's second term, Mueller would be gone already. Not only gone, but fired in disgrace followed by weeks of developing news about Mueller's fetishes for Portuguese hotel maids and vodka enemas. But since Trump has to be re-elected he can't risk that. He would be giving the "trump is a fascist dictator" critics exactly what they want. He'll get BURIED in a debate if the other person can keep saying "If you're innocent, why didn't you let them finish the investigation?" He'll lose too many republicans on that talking point alone.
  17. #692
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Congress made that happen. A crime had been committed and Congress was adamant in making sure it was investigated properly. Nixon couldn't stop it.

    The current situation is nothing of the sort. No crime has been identified and Congress is not pushing for anything. This "investigation" comes from the choice of Trump, Sessions, and Rosenstein.
    Ah, but a crime has been committed here as well. Also the investigation was underway before Trump took over afaik, and Rosenstein's hiring of Mueller was in direct response to the Comey firing.

    Sure, Trump can do his own version of the Saturday Night Massacre if he wants the whole thing to go away. But that won't make it go away.
  18. #693
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Ah, but a crime has been committed here as well.
    Oh please.....tell me a story
  19. #694
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Ya laugh and yet here we are, still nothing.
    Don't confuse 'nothing has been made public' with 'nothing has been found'. One doesn't necessarily follow from the other.

    And what exactly do you expect from Mueller, daily updates on who's being looked at and what evidence was uncovered lately? Keeping secrets from suspected parties is paramount to having a proper investigation.
  20. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Don't confuse 'nothing has been made public' with 'nothing has been found'.
    Don't confuse "nothing has been found" with "a crime has been committed here"
  21. #696
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...egal-team.html

    Giuliani,..... told The Washington Post that he joined the team with the intent of bringing Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s probe to a conclusion.
    Mayor time!
  22. #697
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...ler-probe.html

    It shouldn’t take more than “a week or two” to come to a resolution on the probe, Giuliani said.
    Hmmm, I'm gonna bet on the 'over' on this one....
  23. #698
    What crime has been committed?
  24. #699
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    It can certainly be the case that Mueller thinks he is up to stuff. Indeed I think it's very likely that Mueller thinks he's investigating Trump in good faith. And it's what his bosses -- Trump, Sessions, and Rosenstein -- and the boss of the latter two -- Trump -- think that also matters.

    Perhaps you are right that I'm not thinking enough about what Mueller is thinking. And you're not thinking enough about what Trump is thinking. What do you think Trump is thinking/doing? Why do you think that a man that works closely with Trump and that Trump has direct firing power of hired Mueller the very next day that Trump interviewed him? Why do you think Trump has not used any of his usual tactics to stop something to stop the supposed Mueller investigation? Why do you think Trump's very close friend, Sessions, "sits back" while his employee supposedly tries to destroy his close friend and boss? Why do you think Mueller is still around even though nothing tying Trump to a crime has come to pass, many times of which there were lengths in which the Mueller's political capital was paltry? What do you think the Reality TV President would do in this situation?

    Mueller was not tasked with investigating Trump or anyone narrowly.

    Russia interfered with our election. There is enough evidence that Americans may have assisted them to investigate this claim. Some of these Americans are associates of Trump/the Trump campaign.

    Sessions and Trump are not close friends by any reasonable measure.

    The Mueller/Trump Interview is interesting-- It's not crazy that a person would be on the short list of candidates for both positions. There's a lot of overlap.

    Trumps "usual tactics" are a form of bullying. It's the same reason you don't see him using these tactics with Putin. Similar reason at least-- Putin is a much more seasoned bully, Mueller is relatively impervious to his bullying because of the structuring of his position and Mueller, unlike Trumps other targets is capable of hitting back in a meaningful way.

    Sessions recused himself, presumably under the good advice of career DOJ staffers-- possibly under the advice of his former colleagues in congress. Even if he wanted to play an active role in protecting Trump, that path is fraught with all sorts of danger, political, legal, legacy, etc.

    I don't think Mueller's political capital since being appointed to his current position can ever be said to be "paltry."

    In what situation are we talking? The one that is reasonably reflective of reality? I think he would do just what we see him doing-- becoming agitated, flailing about, attempting to distract. He may prevail, he may be innocent, but he certainly is in a tough spot with no easy ways out.

    Oh, also, why are you keeping up this charade after the FBI/DOJ raided Cohen's office/home/etc and seized decades of records? This is all for show? A judge signed a warrant for a raid of an attorney's records-- wait, not an attorney, that's telling enough, but not just any attorney, the Presidents personal attorney-- because...?
  25. #700
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Russia interfered with our election. There is enough evidence that Americans may have assisted them to investigate this claim. Some of these Americans are associates of Trump/the Trump campaign.
    What is the evidence of crime?

    Oh, also, why are you keeping up this charade after the FBI/DOJ raided Cohen's office/home/etc and seized decades of records? This is all for show? A judge signed a warrant for a raid of an attorney's records-- wait, not an attorney, that's telling enough, but not just any attorney, the Presidents personal attorney-- because...?
    What are the facts? Is Rosenstein stating that Cohen was not raided in relation to Trump a fact?
  26. #701
    What does Devin Nunes mean when he says that when he examined the intel of what led to the investigation of Trump and collusion that there was no intel?
  27. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    What does Devin Nunes mean when he says that when he examined the intel of what led to the investigation of Trump and collusion that there was no intel?
    Link?

    Are you referring to something recent? Because this sounds like old news. Steele compiled a dossier of rumors he heard from Russians who wanted to give him bad rumors. One of those rumors was that Manafort and Carter Paige met with someone directly connected to Putin and discussed, specifically, the favorable treatment of Russia by the US in return for Russia doing things to influence the election outcome.

    This was the meeting where Carter Paige was promised something like $12Billion dollars in shares of a Russian energy company for his role in coordinating this.

    As a result, Carter Paige was under surveillance for a year, yet he's not charged with anything and he's still poor. Meanwhile Manafort got busted on some unrelated, but seemingly serious shit, and hasn't cashed in his "get out of jail free" card. Oh yeah, and did I mention that Steele was working for Hillary and paid by the DNC? Did I mention that Steele leaked/gave the info to Yahoo news, who printed it. Then the FBI decided to perceive Steele and Yahoo as separate corroborating sources, which was what drove them to get a warrant on Carter Paige.
  28. #703
    It's from a new interview with Nunes

  29. #704
    The TLDR is that Nunes says that he examined the intel on Trump/Russia collusion and it didn't exist. Then he claims his committee and the IG are investigating why that is and investigating others and that the Clinton camp is implied to be among them (and preliminarily believed to be the driver)

    You know, the basics.
  30. #705
    Yeah, that's all old news. They're probably just refreshing everyone's memory because of Comey's book.

    remember, Comey was either duped by Steele, or purposefully partisan.
  31. #706
    Makes sense that it's old news, because I recall hearing that a while ago.

    I'm just wondering what this sort of information means to the bubble of Facts Are Irrelevant.
  32. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I'm just wondering what this sort of information means to the bubble of Facts Are Irrelevant.
    They've silently conceded defeat. But rather than just say that, they moved on to "Obstruction!" and "Campaign Finance Violation!"
  33. #708
    Historian with high contacts in the conservative sphere, and who has been following this from Day 1, explains the case that Sessions is investigating the Obama administration crimes.

    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/heres-...ing-4-d-chess/

    I'd say it's a good read because it covers some important facts that have come out yet not been touched by the mainstream media.
    Last edited by wufwugy; 04-26-2018 at 12:31 AM.
  34. #709
    Can't wait for Poopadoop to tell me the REAL reason this happened, and why it's such a nefarious outrage.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...-restored.html
  35. #710
    In the words of a very huge Bernie Sanders fan

    https://twitter.com/langdaleca/statu...52917147226112
  36. #711
    I've seen people ask hypothetical questions around here trying to insinuate that Republicans are going to bring about the apocalypse if Trump loses in 2020. Such a notion is absurd of course. But here's a more realistic hypothetical....

    What if Manafort walks?

    Day 2 of the trial today and it's not going great for Mueller.
  37. #712
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    I've seen people ask hypothetical questions around here trying to insinuate that Republicans are going to bring about the apocalypse if Trump loses in 2020. Such a notion is absurd of course. But here's a more realistic hypothetical....

    What if Manafort walks?

    Day 2 of the trial today and it's not going great for Mueller.
    It does not appear to me how Manafort has any relation to the accusations about Trump (accusations made up to explain losing an election and to trick people).
  38. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    It does not appear to me how Manafort has any relation to the accusations about Trump
    That's probably because you're an intelligent and informed person. Manafort's crimes have nothing to do with the Trump campaign. You're right.

    But he prosecutors don't actually care. They're going to try and demagogue the jury into convicting this guy based on his grotesque-ness alone. Judge has already shit on the prosecutor for trying to demonize Manafort for being rich. Like, why would the Jury care how much he spends on a watch?

    (accusations made up to explain losing an election and to trick people).
    Well that's kinda why this trial is relevant to Trump/Russia

    Manafort was part of the made up accusations. Steele's dossier claimed that Manafot was the guy actually in the room, along with Carter Paige, when the deal was made with the Russian governement. Manafort was actually the one who said the words. He represented Donald Trump in a deal that exchanged favorable treatment from America for the service of hacking Podesta and the DNC.

    That's the accusation.

    All Manafort has to do is say: "yes that happened", and he's free. this trial would be abandoned an Rick Gates would do a million years in jail while everyone forgets his name.

    But Manafort hasn't

    Moronic pundits and half-assed conspiracy theorists (eg Vox) have speculated that he's freerolling. He can either win at trial, or get a pardon if he loses.

    Why the fuck would Trump pardon him?
  39. #714
    The facts that Trump interviewed Mueller the day before he was hired and that Trump complains about him yet hasn't given him a Forever Name are enough to warn that what the eye sees is probably not what's going on.
  40. #715
    I must be mentally dense here....

    Someone help me unravel the five-dimensional chess game that's going on here....

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/02/polit...ler/index.html

    it's no secret that he is absolutely fixated on the Russia investigation and his belief that this is all one big hoax
    Wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute.

    is CNN saying that it believes that Trump believes that the Russia story is a big hoax? Why would Trump think that if it was real? Wouldn't he know? Hey Chris Calizza, are you telling me that you believe that Trump is sincere in his denials of russian collusion? Are you saying that Trump is being truthful when he says that there was no collusion??

    Trump has been absolutely adamant that he took part in "no collusion" with the Russians and has zero to hide. And I believe he believes that.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/04/polit...iew/index.html

    Why would Trump adamantly believe something that he knew to be untrue? Why would you trust the sincerity of his belief if you suspected that he actually did take part in collusion??

    If Trump believes he is innocent
    And Trump's belief is to be believed
    Then what's the point of trying to prove his guilt?
  41. #716
    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment...-election.html

    OMG, the democrat candidate hasn't even conceded yet and they're already speculating about Russian meddling

    Why else would anyone cast a protest vote in Ohio
    Perfectly legitimate question!!! Anyone who isn't on the liberal bandwagon MUST be a Russian agent. /sarcasm

    Stupid bitch can't even do math. Even if all the Green Party voters went Dem...they'd still lose!

    I can't believe I masturbated so much to someone this cunty.
    Last edited by BananaStand; 08-08-2018 at 04:00 PM.
  42. #717
    Watching the press piss their pants over anything that's even slightly salacious used to be hilarious. Now it's getting kind of sad.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/09/polit...ity/index.html

    This reads like a script for a House of Cards episode. An member of a progressive activist group goes undercover to expose the secret agenda of republican elites. He catches "a top Trump ally" on tape talking about "protecting" the President. The story goes on to tell us that Nunes is suspected of helping Trump with the Mueller investigation all along. And it's all captured in this "secret" recording that was never meant for public ears.

    I mean give me a fucking break. Here's another story that CNN ran the exact same day.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/09/polit...sia/index.html

    Statement from Trump's attorney:
    (the President) needs something to energize his voters because the Democrats look like they're energized. Nothing would energize (Republicans) more than, 'Let's save the President.' "
    So in public, republicans will say one thing about their agenda. But then behind closed doors, in private, in secret, in the company of their evil capitalist donors, they will say.....THE EXACT SAME THING!
  43. #718
    Anyone else think Omarosa is kinda hot?
  44. #719
    No, can't say she does it for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  45. #720
  46. #721
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
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    The 80's sitcom music is perfect.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  47. #722
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
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    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    BTW, with all due respect to boost - he could't have known how retarded things would get, but the thread title is just clearly wrong. I propose we move this thread, which seems to have turned into a carbon copy of every other active thread over here:

    https://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerf...44#post2291544
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  48. #723
    I think we need several threads to keep up with the stupidity of Trump and his trumptards.

    As far as I can see, Omarosa's only two qualifying credentials for her position at the WH were:
    1) she was one of the few black people who could turn a blind eye to Trump-the-racist; and
    2) she'd been on TV

    If that's why you hire someone is it any surprise they turn out to be a dingbat?

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