Starcraft 2

[KoRnholio]

Judging by the small bases and the all stalker composition, looks like Lee's 3 gate blink stalker > Rager's 4 gate.

[bigred]

Not a clue what the above means

[bigred]

Do you guys like orcs or human more? I'm a big fan of playing modem games instead of computer.

[lolzzz_321]

Will be getting this soon...

[ensign_lee]

haha, well I kinda did I guess.

I got tired of normal PvP so I started off with a cannon rush that game. I didn't commit all my resources to it so by the time he dealt with the cannons in his base (and a few zealots of mine killing his probes), I already had a normal base up with 4gate and then ran over him since I had like 13 more workers than him.

Oh, and for the record, that game was a masters league ladder game.

P.S. Kudos to Kornholio for his awesome analytical skills. That's what I would have guessed from the screenshot as well.

[KoRnholio]

P.S. Kudos to Kornholio for his awesome analytical skills. That's what I would have guessed from the screenshot as well.

haha thanks. That's why I win at the pokerz! Would be great at sc2 too if only I could clickity click quickly and accurately

[oskar]

haha, well I kinda did I guess.

I got tired of normal PvP so I started off with a cannon rush that game.

Latest patch: warpgate research increased by 20sec. I'm happy about that even as a protoss. cos pvp was getting pretty ridiculous.
I haven't played 1v1 yet but I think that something besides 4-gate or cheese might become an option now.

[ensign_lee]

Latest patch: warpgate research increased by 20sec. I'm happy about that even as a protoss. cos pvp was getting pretty ridiculous.
I haven't played 1v1 yet but I think that something besides 4-gate or cheese might become an option now.

Yeah, PvP in masters was almost who can 4gate better. Very few people were able to hold off 4gate with 3gate robo

[ensign_lee]

TSL3 EPIICCCCCCCCCCCCCC!!!!!!1!

http://www.pokerstrategytsl3.com/

AAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

[boost]

TSL3 EPIICCCCCCCCCCCCCC!!!!!!1!

PokerStrategy.com TSL3 - Team Liquid StarLeague 3

AAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

is this being streamed somewhere? I haven't played in a long time, but I've caught a few streaming tourneys and they have been pretty awesome.

edit:

The TSL3 broadcast schedule is outlined below. To view the stream once the event is live, please tune in to TeamLiquidTV

nothing is displayed below this...

[ensign_lee]

The tournament is over. But every single game is available for viewing. can you not find it?

[oskar]

Thanks for the link! I tried to find it before, but with google search bringing up teamliquid and teamliquid not having any links I couldn't find it either, and then I couldn't be bothered.

In other news: +20sec on warpgate is a huge pain in the ass. It's probably for the best, but right now nothing works :'(

[ensign_lee]

MFer. +20 second on the warpgate has Fed up EVERY SINGLE BUILD I HAVE. @(^*@@%@$*&@^*@%@

Me after patch 1.3.3 - 3-15 . Are you friggin' kiddin gme. &*@^&@%^&@%(*&@^*(@%&*@%@

In masters level, I can't afford to not know my builds this is frustrating.

[oskar]

I've tried a couple of things by feel. What has worked for me so far is to use chrono on warpgates instead of cybernetics and move out at 4:something or so with two gates. While I move out I can decide wether to add another gateway, expand or go down whatever tech path. I really think it will make all matchups more interesting, but it's a huge change for protoss. My teammates are hating on me cos they don't see how two seconds less build time here and there can mess you up. 2sec supply block at 5min. is pretty terrible, even at diamond 3v3 lol.

[ensign_lee]

You know, that's not a bad idea. Just saying F it to warpgate in the early game and just chronoboosting troops out of gateways.

Would definitely help against the terran early pressure that's been murdering me lately. And maybe I could actually put some pressure on a hatch first zerg without having to blind cannon his natural... hmm...

[KoRnholio]

The Most Interesting Man In The World - i dont always trash talk but when i do i..

[oskar]

In other news;
I found a way to still 4-gate pretty well by accident.
Pylon on 10!
Warpgate asap, gas asap, skip zealot if possible.
Cybernetics before second Pylon!
you can build two stalkers before research finishes.
Dunno yet when to stop chrono probes and start to chrono cybernetics. Haven't played in a week, but I did it a couple of times after I messed up my first pylon initially, and I was able to warp in at 5:30-somethin.
Cut probes at 19 for extra cheesetastic-ness.


I was surprised how well this build ties in. If I don't mess up I have 100 gas by the time cybernetics finishes. Second pylon feels pretty late, but it finishes pretty much exactly on time.
Cutting half a probe on 10 is pretty significant, but so is loosing his whole fucking base at 5:30 for KorRnholio.

Selecting 'Terran' before starting a game is also super strong.

[ensign_lee]

yeah, the problem with doing that 10 gate warpgate thing is that it's instantly scoutable. The opponent knows EXACTLY wtf you're doing since you start spending chronos on your warpgate
once it finishes
and he sees that you haven't used any of the rest on probes. Plus, you can't kill his worker until stalkers come out. :/

So he can blind prepare for you that way.

[oskar]

zomg ensign_lee plays monobattles with day9, but is too humble to make a brag bump.


Viewer Monobattles: June 12th Game 2 | Day[9] on blip.tv

[ensign_lee]

zomg ensign_lee plays monobattles with day9, but is too humble to make a brag bump.


Viewer Monobattles: June 12th Game 2 | Day[9] on blip.tv

woot woot, that's me. hehe. PM me if you want a copy of the replay with your email addy.

[Icanhastreebet]

Bump for end of season, good luck to all.

[oskar]

goddamn I haven't played in weeks. New season already? Do they restart like bi-monthly?

[WildBobAA]

New seasons are like every 3 months + 2 week freeze.

[WildBobAA]

YouTube - ‪StarCraft Geeks Pick Up Girls - Get Her Number!‬‏

[bigred]

YouTube - ‪StarCraft Geeks Pick Up Girls - Get Her Number!‬‏

Either they were being nice for the camera or I got about 5% of the ass by never asking for numbers. This depresses me

[oskar]

I think it's kind of like probe rushing - it fails a dozen times, but when it works you upload it to youtube and HI5 all your friends.

[oskar]

Either they were being nice for the camera or I got about 5% of the ass by never asking for numbers. This depresses me

I was big on collecting gyrls phone numbers as a teen. Lesson learned: phone number != Ass

[WildBobAA]

YouTube - ‪NERD ALERT - Void Rays - (Rebecca Black - Friday Parody) ft KurtHugoSchneider / HuskyStarcraft‬‏

!!!

[ensign_lee]

YouTube - ‪NERD ALERT - Void Rays - (Rebecca Black - Friday Parody) ft KurtHugoSchneider / HuskyStarcraft‬‏

!!!

ehhh....pale in comparison to BANELINGS. The lyrics are forced, and top it off, Plastic League's "Funday Monday" already did this song.

That failed to hit the mark for me, and I had such high hopes.

[oskar]

Show some goddamn respect you non-contributing consumer whore!

Funday Monday version was better, but another Husky music video is better than none.

[ensign_lee]

hahaha

In true FTR fashion, Starcraft Heads up For rollz?

[WildBobAA]

Yeah, song is definitely the worst of the three but still good imo. They could have done a better job with the lyrics.

[oskar]

I'm up for some HU 4 rollz. I'm StaraCroft.423 on Battlenet. Maybe we can get a small tourney going as well.

[WildBobAA]

I'll play if Lee doesnt

(b/c he would just crush everyone)

[caddie444]

Korean Starcraft Shadow Mime | Kontraband

[ensign_lee]

I'm up for some HU 4 rollz. I'm StaraCroft on Batzlenet. Maybe we can get a small tourney going as well.

I need your character code as well in order to find you.

Mine is ensignlee.689

[ensign_lee]

I'll play if Lee doesnt

(b/c he would just crush everyone)

That's not necessarily true. I think I'm pretty susceptible to cheese. And PvP is always a relative crapshoot.

[oskar]

I need your character code as well in order to find you.

Mine is ensignlee.689

I've tried to add you but it doesn't find you.
I'm staracroft.423

[WildBobAA]

Did anyone see the balance blog blizzard posted last week?

StarCraft II: Balance Snapshot - StarCraft II

NA/EU Masters/GM Zergs were getting stomped by P and T (Korean server was fairly even) before the 1.4 patch and Blizzard still felt the need to nerf the infestor. Now that 1.4 has hit, I do not know how zergs are supposed to deal with the Void/Stalker/Collosus death ball. Pre-patch, you could just neuro the collossus but the neuro-nerf makes it damn near impossible to do that now. Corruptors suck and are pretty bad vs voids since the voids get charged up pretty easily vs corruptors and not to mention that the corruptors get focused down by stalkers before they can actually kill the Collosus. The obvious response to this is "well don't let them build up a death ball" but in practice, this is pretty damn hard because it's fairly easy for a protoss to FFE and it's fairly easily for a competent toss to defend his 3rd on most ladder maps. I even had a game last night where I killed the 3rd and he still just moved out w/ his army on 2 bases vs my 4 bases and crushed me. I guess the only real response is to tech straight to ultra/bood lord but then you're just hoping the toss stays in his base mid game and doesn't pressure you which never happens vs good toss's. I'm to the point where I don't want to play anymore b/c it's just so frustrating losing game after game when I know exactly what the other player is doing and I can't do anything about it b/c the race I want to play sucks so badly.

cliffs: ZvP imba, f this game, going to play Gears of War 3 until Blizzard fixes this shit

[oskar]

Have you seen Thorzain vs DRG? The answer is 300 APM I guess :P
thorzain vs dongraegu g1 - YouTube

sc2 is barely a year old and I think the patches so far have been pretty reasonable. I think that a lot of 'imbalances' may disappear in the future when people figure more stuff out. I don't think one huge nerf will be the end to this.

What I can say from a noob perspective is that it always looked like Zerg was weak in direct engagements, but then Zerg can macro up so insanely fast, you get map control so easily with creep/mutas and you're the only race that can have a 300+ food army.

[WildBobAA]

Well that game is ZvT. I think ZvT is more or less balanced and the infestor nerf doesn't affect it a ton (Terrans were hurt more in the matchup because of the barracks and hellion nerfs). There's just no good way to deal with colossus pre-hive anymore without neuro.

[ensign_lee]

Uh yeah, ZvP *is* imba...FOR ZERG.

Protoss are posting 40% win rates against Zerg. I don't see how you can cry that ZvP is imbalanced for Protoss. What exactly are our options for harass that don't put us all in to prevent you from getting 3 bases and rolling over us?

You can deal with colossus by making sure we never get to 3 bases. We don't have enough gas to support colossi, stalkers, and upgrades.

[WildBobAA]

Uh yeah, ZvP *is* imba...FOR ZERG.

Protoss are posting 40% win rates against Zerg.

What? Where did you get that 40% number? Did you look at the link I posted? That is put out officially by blizzard. On the North American server, Protoss had a 57% winrate vs Zerg at the Masters and Grand Masters level and that data was compiled before the infestor nerf took place.

[boost]

Have you seen Thorzain vs DRG? The answer is 300 APM I guess :P
thorzain vs dongraegu g1 - YouTube

sc2 is barely a year old and I think the patches so far have been pretty reasonable. I think that a lot of 'imbalances' may disappear in the future when people figure more stuff out. I don't think one huge nerf will be the end to this.

What I can say from a noob perspective is that it always looked like Zerg was weak in direct engagements, but then Zerg can macro up so insanely fast, you get map control so easily with creep/mutas and you're the only race that can have a 300+ food army.

sick series... seems to be a really close match up, which is always fun to watch. Also watching a best of 5 with 15k on the line is fun

[ensign_lee]

What? Where did you get that 40% number? Did you look at the link I posted? That is put out officially by blizzard. On the North American server, Protoss had a 57% winrate vs Zerg at the Masters and Grand Masters level and that data was compiled before the infestor nerf took place.

Korea, where everything should be balanced around:

http://i.imgur.com/HvaeL.png

Check out bottom right graph.

Protoss is really struggling to compete. oGs.MC and Slayers.Alicia recently fell from Code S to Code B (falling straight through Code A in the process). oGs.MC is a 2 time world champion at Starcraft 2.

[WildBobAA]

Judging race balance by only considering the top 0.0001% of players (progamers) is a poor way to do it imo. If Nestea crushes every Protoss he plays, does that mean it's imba or does it mean that Nestea is just that much better than everyone?

[ensign_lee]

Judging race balance by only considering the top 0.0001% of players (progamers) is a poor way to do it imo. If Nestea crushes every Protoss he plays, does that mean it's imba or does it mean that Nestea is just that much better than everyone?

That's the *only* way to do it. You should only ever balance around the top of the heap, as that is the only place where true imbalance is shown.

Everyone else, by virtue of the ladder system, is going to be 50/50 no matter what except for the top of the heap and the very bottom of the heap.

[WildBobAA]

Why are you even complaining? For the league you play in, I already showed that Toss has a massive advantage. And lol at the ladder system being 50/50. I already showed that it's not based on a blog post put out by the makers of the game.

[ensign_lee]

Because I post a stupid 30% win rate vs zerg, and feel like unless I all in every game, I have closer to a 10% win rate, relying on massive mistakes by the zerg in order to win.

I have no way to pressure a zerg without committing to an attack that is at least semi-all in, if not fully all in.

[oskar]

grudgematch itt?
Whoever looses wins the argument?

[WildBobAA]

wouldn't be fair since lee plays an op race

[ensign_lee]

wouldn't be fair since lee plays an op race

trollolol

I see what you did there

[a500lbgorilla]

If neither of you will sack up to a match, then I'll call it.

Whole game is imba, best choice is to just wait for starcraft 3.

[bode]

internet slang is getting out of control. imba? really?

[a500lbgorilla]

lol old man bode

imba = imbalanced. Fewer syllables, same information. Seems like language is passing you by.

[ensign_lee]

lol ok. I'll play bob. ensignlee.689

[WildBobAA]

I mean, I'll play for fun but playing a match to settle this argument is pretty stupid since we are arguing that the race the other person plays is OP. This would mean that the loser would technically be the winner. What would make more sense is if I played Protoss and Lee played Zerg.

[KoRnholio]

internet slang is getting out of control. imba? really?

quit being so bm

[ensign_lee]

I mean, I'll play for fun but playing a match to settle this argument is pretty stupid since we are arguing that the race the other person plays is OP. This would mean that the loser would technically be the winner. What would make more sense is if I played Protoss and Lee played Zerg.

I like that idea. let's do it lol.

(I don't even know how to play zerg lolol)

[WildBobAA]

I actually wouldn't mind playing a bunch of games on our normal races for practice. ZvP has suddenly become my weakest matchup by far and I definitely need some practice games.

[ensign_lee]

k well add me on bnet or post your character ID here.

[bode]

lol old man bode

imba = imbalanced. Fewer syllables, same information. Seems like language is passing you by.

i gathered that's what it meant, but its still ridic.


















































(you see what i did there?)

[ensign_lee]

Actually hey bob. Just PM me your email addy and I'll add you on bnet.

[oskar]

Lee, what is your basic build after you scout a terran who has already walled in with two depos and a barracks and only keeps one or two marines behind to kill off scouting probes?
You basically have to account for: cloaked banshees, early marine push, MMM drops, right?. That's all the stuff that can come in before I can safely scout. I have looked on Teamliquid but the noise level is ridiculous.

[KoRnholio]

^ Saw a PvT just today where the Protoss rolled the Terran strat you describe with a proxy stargate. He basically stayed on 1 gate, chronoboosting out stalkers while his SG built. Then added an expo, gateway and a robo after the 2nd VR started building.

[oskar]

I don't go stargate so much on the newer bigger maps cos I do need to proxy to make it effective, but then they're really only useful for 2-4 void rays anyway, so I might as well proxy.

I'm also thinking I could chrono boost out two stalkers and harass his front. At least he has to pull his units to the front and I get to see what he got so far.

[LuckySlevin]

who cares about this stupid kids game? Play poker mooore? ok?

[ensign_lee]

Lee, what is your basic build after you scout a terran who has already walled in with two depos and a barracks and only keeps one or two marines behind to kill off scouting probes?
You basically have to account for: cloaked banshees, early marine push, MMM drops, right?. That's all the stuff that can come in before I can safely scout. I have looked on Teamliquid but the noise level is ridiculous.

Fast expand (like off 1 gate and 1 core). Drop a robo. See wtf he is doing with your obs. Drop 4-5 more gates (or stargate if you see dual banshee).

Constantly warp in units if you don't see an expand, because he *will* come and you don't want to get caught with your pants down.

Oh, and if you don't see an expand, don't worry about saturating both bases, You just need to survive his push. Do *not* let your warpgates stay long on cooldown once you see wtf he is doing.

[LuckySlevin]

ok you win innuendo prize of the decade, just when i thought this game sounded boring, grats!

"Oh, and if you don't see an expand, don't worry about saturating both bases, You just need to survive his push. Do *not* let your warpgates stay long on cooldown once you see wtf he is doing. "

[oskar]

The last game I've played was exactly that. My first observer finishes at 6:45, at 7:00 he's at the front of my base with 16 marines. (cut scv's at 15, 5 barracks without addons) In fairness I could have held it off with a 3rd gateway and a better unit composition.
edit: tried the expand thing. I think I can have enough to hold most cheese off and get an observer out early. tyty

[bikes]

slevin dont you owe someone monies still?

youve been accused of theivery iirc

[ensign_lee]

The last game I've played was exactly that. My first observer finishes at 6:45, at 7:00 he's at the front of my base with 16 marines. (cut scv's at 15, 5 barracks without addons) In fairness I could have held it off with a 3rd gateway and a better unit composition.
edit: tried the expand thing. I think I can have enough to hold most cheese off and get an observer out early. tyty

Alternatively, you could go robo before nexus. This allows you the option to cancel your nexus if he barrels down your front with 16 marines +SCVs and hold your ramp with FFs. I hear it's also good vs 1-1-1

[oskar]

I played a pretty hilarious game recently where I decided to build a proxy gate at one of three possible spawn locations and the two out of three times I end up at the wrong base I would just continue to play standard, but with my gateway at another base and the cybernetics behind the mineral line of that base. Ended up proxying the wrong base.
Freaked him the fuck out. He had two scv's scouting for my structures until the 8min mark when I just walked in and killed him cos he was preparing for proxy gates the whole time.
I'll do that a bit more against P and T cos it's so much fun.

[ensign_lee]

lol, wouldn't he notice the fact that you have assimilators gathering gas?

I guess if I walked into a base and saw no structures for the first time, I might ignore it too lol.

[oskar]

proxy stalkers? who knows.
Yah and if I scout a toss base with no pylon and a gas building, my first thought is not: oh he must be building his base somewhere else. I'm more likely to think: what a lame diversion from his cheese.