red light cameras

[sarbox68]

I'm pretty sure I got a f-in red light camera ticket today. $370!! WTF... this sh!t is like a f-in ATM for the city. 2 seconds too late and I got my ugly ass mug on some camera somewhere flipping Culver City 5Oh the bird two-handed ('cause i couldn't get my drawers down fast enuff to moon they b!tch ass...)

'K... that's all... just venting and sh!t... maybe I'll play a little $2nl on f-in life tilt!

[Jack Sawyer]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...nal-trend.html

[allabout]

$370 for running a red light!??! Thats pretty shitty!

[ProZachNation]

Red means stop, Green means go, just fyi

[bigred]

killing a family in a minivan by running a red light!??! Thats pretty shitty!

fyp

[dick_pump]

ya know when i went thru a red light in hollywood i knew what i was doing. so i gave the bird to the camera and when it (the ticket) came in the mail there i was middle finger saluting!

[Jack Sawyer]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080413-red-light-camera-monkey-business-may-be-a-national-trend.html

[bigred]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080413-red-light-camera-monkey-business-may-be-a-national-trend.html

Doesn't mean that red cameras are bad.

[daven]

I'm pretty sure I got a f-in red light camera ticket today. $370!! WTF... this sh!t is like a f-in ATM for the city. 2 seconds too late and I got my ugly ass mug on some camera somewhere flipping Culver City 5Oh the bird two-handed ('cause i couldn't get my drawers down fast enuff to moon they b!tch ass...)

'K... that's all... just venting and sh!t... maybe I'll play a little $2nl on f-in life tilt!

Red=stop. Be glad you got a fine rather than the guilt of killing someone through your bad driving.
/end.

[sarbox68]

I'm pretty sure I got a f-in red light camera ticket today. $370!! WTF... this sh!t is like a f-in ATM for the city. 2 seconds too late and I got my ugly ass mug on some camera somewhere flipping Culver City 5Oh the bird two-handed ('cause i couldn't get my drawers down fast enuff to moon they b!tch ass...)

'K... that's all... just venting and sh!t... maybe I'll play a little $2nl on f-in life tilt!

Red=stop. Be glad you got a fine rather than the guilt of killing someone through your bad driving.
/end.

Empty street. Empty sidewalk. Slight miss on a stale yellow not going to kill nobody.

Slamming on my brakes. Getting the car behind me up my ass. Different story.

Looks like speeding cameras (in many cases dialed to less than 5 over the limit) are the next thing. But I'm sure you're always staying right on the limit so nobody's at risk.

/end

[Galapogos]

I'm pretty sure I got a f-in red light camera ticket today. $370!! WTF... this sh!t is like a f-in ATM for the city. 2 seconds too late and I got my ugly ass mug on some camera somewhere flipping Culver City 5Oh the bird two-handed ('cause i couldn't get my drawers down fast enuff to moon they b!tch ass...)

'K... that's all... just venting and sh!t... maybe I'll play a little $2nl on f-in life tilt!

Red=stop. Be glad you got a fine rather than the guilt of killing someone through your bad driving.
/end.

Empty street. Empty sidewalk. Slight miss on a stale yellow not going to kill nobody.

Slamming on my brakes. Getting the car behind me up my ass. Different story.

Looks like speeding cameras (in many cases dialed to less than 5 over the limit) are the next thing. But I'm sure you're always staying right on the limit so nobody's at risk.

/end

Yeah, like the general public is capable of determining whether it's safe to run a red or not. People suck at driving, hence the black & white rules. Also, I live in a town where people are AWFUL for running stale yellows, and it causes an insane amount of accidents, on the busy streets and the quiet ones. I can't wait for the city to crack down on this and bring in red light cameras. I really don't want to be the victim of some jackass that doesn't want to waste 1 minute of his precious time for the next green.

Car behind you should be traveling at a safe enough distance that he can stop in time if you slam on your brakes. If he doesn't it's his fault, not yours, and insurance pays you decent money for your troubles.

[sarbox68]

Not about wasting one minute of time. Driving is situational. That's why cops can give you a speeding ticket when you driving under the speed limit, but in their subjective perspective, over the speed that is "safe". It's also why they'll ticket you for slamming on your brakes if your wheels break the limit line with cars behind on an intersection to avoid going through a potential red light (go figure!). And the car behind should be "traveling at a safe enough distance" is IMHO (at least where I live...) a joke... Drive an LA freeway for a day and tell me how well that works out for you.

Slamming on brakes on a clear intersection to avoid an arbitrary automated ticket is horrible driving advice. Yeah, you get hit and it's not your fault... try getting rear-ended at 35 mph... I have, and it ain't fun.

That's why we have cops, and not just a million sensors. It's also why cops don't routinely ticket drivers going 5-10 miles over the speed limit on the freeway. If black and white made sense, they should be pulling people over as fast as they can fish 'em off the road... lord knows the state needs the money!

I don't know what your experience with red light cameras is going to be. The experience here is it hasn't changed behavior one bit. Mostly 'cause the streets they're on are so congested that their mostly catching people just flat out caught in the flow of traffic (where, IMO you'd get more and worst accidents with excessively aggressive braking than late yellows) and there's not much to change there. They guy dialing his cell phone and blowing thru the light into a minivan is going to end up doing that whether there's a camer or not... And most people aren't even aware the cameras are there until it's too late... and awareness is a prerequisite to changing behavior.

But these ain't about changing behavior... they're ATMs for the city, plain and simple. If they really wanted to change something in a meaningful way, they'd put speeding cameras on residential through streets, where people blow through at 35-40 on a 25 to short cut congestion for cut & dry no other reason than to save time.

Also interesting point... the city doesn't pay for the cameras. The company that makes, installs and maintains them (also coincidentally in culver city...) covers that cost for a % take on the ticket revenue. And I'm sure their selection of placement is driven completely by an overriding interest in public safety....

[Jack Sawyer]

ITS REVENUE GENERATION I TELL YOU

FUCK PUBLIC SAFETY, AS LONG AS WE CAN FILL COFFINS WITH MONIES

MINIMiZE THE TIME YELLOW TAKES, AND BOOM! INSTA-SURPLUS FROM TICKETS! WAT AN IDEA!

[sarbox68]

ITS REVENUE GENERATION I TELL YOU

FUCK PUBLIC SAFETY, AS LONG AS WE CAN FILL COFFINS WITH MONIES

MINIMiZE THE TIME YELLOW TAKES, AND BOOM! INSTA-SURPLUS FROM TICKETS! WAT AN IDEA!

lolz... now city governments wouldn't do THAT....

My favorite is the whole safe driving distance thing. And again, put in perspective, I spend most of my time driving in LA, SFO & NYC... not exactly soccer mom suburbia. Safe driving distance is 1 car length for every 10mph. So at 35 mph, person behind me is 'spose to leave 3 1/2 car lengths. You know what happens if they were to try and leave 3 1/2 car lengths between them and me out here??... 4 cars would try to squeeze in with at least 2 of them giving each other a horn and the finger when they can't all fit...

I'll take a ticket from a cop that says I did something unsafe any day of the week (have had 1 in the past 15 years for making a right hand turn on a red light...). But you never gonna convince me that this kinda subjectively random automated bullsh!t is a good thing...

[Galapogos]

Not about wasting one minute of time. Driving is situational. That's why cops can give you a speeding ticket when you driving under the speed limit, but in their subjective perspective, over the speed that is "safe". It's also why they'll ticket you for slamming on your brakes if your wheels break the limit line with cars behind on an intersection to avoid going through a potential red light (go figure!). And the car behind should be "traveling at a safe enough distance" is IMHO (at least where I live...) a joke... Drive an LA freeway for a day and tell me how well that works out for you.

I'm not saying other drivers abide by it, I agree, they're awful for it. But I'm saying if you get into an accident because of it, it's their fault. For a cop to give you a ticket for driving under the limit you have to have been going REALLY under the limit, to the point that your slow speed is actually endangering other people. That's pretty hard to do.

Also, I have never heard of someone getting a ticket for slamming on their brakes to avoid running a red. My g/f got in an accident a few years ago because a guy in front of her slammed on his brakes to let someone onto the street who was trying to exit a 7-11 parking lot. That has to be one of the dumbest reasons to slam on your brakes. They both told the cop the story and he ticketed her and the insurance company put her at 100% fault because even though she wasn't tailgaiting she still wasn't far enough behind to react to the unexpected. The cop basically told the guy he was an idiot, but technically, she was the one at fault.

Slamming on brakes on a clear intersection to avoid an arbitrary automated ticket is horrible driving advice. Yeah, you get hit and it's not your fault... try getting rear-ended at 35 mph... I have, and it ain't fun.

I honestly don't know how you get in a situation where you have to slam on your brakes for a red light in a clear intersection going 35mph unless you screwed up in your judgement. Plus, if it's a stale yellow, the guy behind you should be well ready to stop as I'm sure it's not his plan to follow you through. And if it was his plan, I definitely don't see how you can be faulted for that.

That's why we have cops, and not just a million sensors. It's also why cops don't routinely ticket drivers going 5-10 miles over the speed limit on the freeway. If black and white made sense, they should be pulling people over as fast as they can fish 'em off the road... lord knows the state needs the money!

True, but they do have other duties and need to take on what they can handle. People would definitely not be going 5-10 miles over the limit if they knew the camera was watching and would be nailing them every time they made an infraction.

<bunch of stuff about cameras being ATMS>

I don't know exactly how much money they make off them. But if they are making a lot, I think it's awesome. They are making extra revenue by catching more people who are breaking the law. Would you rather a tax hike? People so often get away with small infractions they think it's their right to go 10mph over the limit or something.

I'm no traffic nit or anything like that. I do speed and I'm guilty of running the odd yellow if I'm late for something. But I do realize every time that if I'm caught it's my fault. And not the city scheming to get rich off poor 'lil me. If I don't want the "greedy" city to make money off me, I obey the rules of the road.

[sarbox68]

Galapogos - I respect your opinion and am happy to just go with we disagree on this. The following are just a couple of responses in the spirit of that....

I have never heard of someone getting a ticket for slamming on their brakes...

Technically, if you don't come to a complete stop behind the limit line, you have run the red light. As soon as you break the plane, you are in violation. If you break the plane, and then slam on your brakes for some reason (I don't know... 'cause you're worried the yellow isn't going to hold and you can't risk a weeks pay on photo ticket...), and the person behind you macks you in the ass, you can (and usually will) be considered partially at fault. At minimum, the cop will usually give you a citation and you'll get hit with a % of at fault. The thought process is that, since you effectively entered into the intersection, the person behind you had cause to believe you would continue through. Therefore, you become the proximate cause of the accident when you question your commit and decide to stop instead. That being said, this is for Cali only... and is prolly different in other states.

I honestly don't know how you get in the situation where you have to slam on your brakes...

That's easy. Variable yellow light times, especially short. In an ideal world you'd know you had, let's say, 3 seconds from yellow to red. You assess, plan, commit and execute based on that and what's going on around you. Take that out and instead give you a random number from 1-5 seconds. Add on the "gotcha" that if you guess the wrong amount you'll get hit for $370 regardless of any situational factors or creation of unsafe conditions. Then throw in the usual flow of traffic. Intersections open, light just turned yellow as you pass the commitment line... oh sh!t, short light, hits red... and instead of safely continuing through and out the other side, you slam on your brakes instead in a desparate attempt to save yourself some $$.

<Tickets are good 'cause they make money from bad people stuff>

Sure, that's the classic sin tax argument. It creates a couple of problems tho'. Red light cameras and speed cameras have no situational awareness. You got a douche in a Danali on your ass at 35 who's not stopping, run the stale yellow to avoid getting creamed (and potentially launched uncontrollably god knows where across the intersection...) and a cop will usually give you a pass within context. The camera sends you a ticket, and to add insult to injury, won't ticket the douche 'cause it's not capable of taking closely sequential pictures.... Accelerate over 65 miles an hour to pass safely or avoid someone merging on top of you. Cop leaves well enough alone. Speed camera would rather you get in an accident and will penalize you for avoiding it. Laws require context... so does enforcement.

Another interesting twist is it lets the "man" get deeper and deeper into your sh!t. And I do believe the "sin tax" concept should have very real limits. When I worked in Amman, the Jordanians had a primitive yet effective way of collecting speeding revenue. Every commercial vehicle was required to have a device that recorded their speeds over the preceding 100 miles or so. Go over the speed limit, it made a mark. Cops at any time would randomly pull these vehicles over, review the device, and ticket for any violations they saw. And of course, for a hundred reasons, just about every vehicle had a violation within the recording period, so they basically could just random ticket the hell outta everyone.

Fast forward.... freeway speed cameras and, next step, GPS monitoring. Somebody watching you everywhere you go and siphoning your bank account everytime you make a mistake. You may be cool with that, as it's just people paying for their mistakes instead of raising taxes, but I will always have a problem with that.

And if it's not an ATM and instead public safety... then there are far more effective ways to accomplish that...

Anyway, I feel better now. I made enough money playing online poker over the past couple of days that should take care of the ticket. Oh wait... isn't that wrong too? Guess I find out soon whether the feds really do cookie my sh!t...

/rant (thank god for everyone else who's already, like, WTF -- drop this already!

[Stacks]

luls... There goes your 25nl roll imo...

[sarbox68]

luls... There goes your 25nl roll imo...

roflmao... and ain't that a mutha-f-ckin b!tch...

[daven]

But I'm sure you're always staying right on the limit so nobody's at risk.
/end

if i get a ticket, I'll pay it.
unlikely though, since my impreza got stolen a few weeks ago and i haven't got around to buying a new car yet

[Galapogos]

/rant (thank god for everyone else who's already, like, WTF -- drop this already!

Works for me.

[bigred]

/rant (thank god for everyone else who's already, like, WTF -- drop this already!

Works for me.

you won anyway

[ProZachNation]

there is a rant thread for this kinda thing MOTHER FUCKER CANT USE SEARCH AND CANT FUCKING NOT RUN RED LIGHTS BAN HIS ASS IMO

/thread?

[sarbox68]

there is a rant thread for this kinda thing MOTHER FUCKER CANT USE SEARCH AND CANT FUCKING NOT RUN RED LIGHTS BAN HIS ASS IMO

/thread?

dude... no need to be a douche