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 Originally Posted by OngBonga
I didn't read your wall to poop before replying to you, so I see you've covered the "science" issue. Something like... we all start off female in the womb, so therefore "male" and "female" are not mutually exclusive.
Keep reading, it gets more complicated. Whether or not someone was born with a penis is not necessarily indicative of their chromosomes. Without a DNA test, no one would even know that person is trans. No one would disallow them from competing as their external plumbing indicates, regardless of any "unfair advantages" their chromosomes offer.
This is how it has always been.
Your argument that someone should compete in whatever category based on their biological sex is a radical change in how we choose who is and isn't allowed to play in our sports today.
The science has shown that we already don't care about chromosomes or unfair advantages, we only care about external appearances.
So why is it different if someone chose to change their plumbing? Your argument that it should matter implies we should be DNA testing every athlete to ensure no "unfair" advantages are in play.
That seems like a crazy invasion of someone's private medical information over something so trivial that we've not cared at all for centuries, or at least the 3 decades since we've known.
 Originally Posted by OngBonga
This doesn't change the fact that males are born with a natural advantage over women when it comes to things like strength and stamina.
Lol. Ong thinks a baby male can beat up a grown woman. Such natural advantage! OMG!

Seriously, though. You're uninformed, and you're not even asking questions. Any google search on the topic will show you that human biological sex is not a 2 state system.
Many factors play into human biological development.
I think we can at least make a clear distinction between people who have transitioned prior to puberty. For those people, they never experienced those later growth spurts that convey these "unfair" advantages of which you speak.
So at the bare minimum, if that's your argument, you should be making a clear exception for trans people in this category.
And no, I'm not saying those trans people should have different rights. I'm saying that even your own argument is flawed if you are trying to find a reason that all trans people have "unfair" advantages.
 Originally Posted by OngBonga
I can't produce milk. That's science. Is science discriminating against me? Something clearly happens in the womb to cause ~50% of unborn babies to develop differently. That development creates these advantages when it comes to sport. You can't undo this, science is not able to (at least yet) perfectly change these traits.
Dude. WTF. Do some research.
You're not a medical doctor, and you're making claims that are medically disproved, and you're not even trying to enlighten yourself in this conversation. I've explained many, many times how convoluted human biological sex is, and you keep insisting it's a 2-state system. This is demonstrably false.
Whether or not you can lactate is irrelevant. Are you suggesting that a woman who can't lactate is not a woman, anymore?
C'mon, man.
If you are trans, then more power to you. If you're a liar who is trying to be a jerk, then knock it off. We should be accommodating and compassionate to everyone who is not a liar or a jerk. I don't even see the problem, here.
 Originally Posted by OngBonga
So males or born with a sporting advantage over females. Not in every case, but in general, which is why there are 9000 men faster than the fastest woman over 100m.
No, males are not born with a sporting advantage. Not in any case. The infant 100 meter sprint isn't a thing.
Babies are too stupid to even feed themselves, or clean their own ass, regardless of anything. Lots of potential, sure, but dumb as a post at first.
Who cares why? Should we not allow women to run next to men who are running? Is there some problem with allowing them to compete against each other? We already have an asterisk next to their "bests," don't we? There's the fastest person, then the fastest person *(excluding over half of all competitors).
We already agree that separate categories make sense, at least more sense than excluding people who are "in the running" as a top competitor.
Since we don't have that - any categories for trans people - and it's been 30 years since we've KNOWN that medically, we've already been ignoring these "unfair" advantages for all of history - and our only reason to not have enough categories is that we've been soooo busy for the past 3 decades... Well, screw you and your busy, these people are here, they're perfectly normal, they want to compete, and if you're too damn lazy to accommodate them, then quit crying about them competing in the "wrong" category.
I don't really think a dozen or more categories of biological sex is going to make any sports "better." But good people are being excluded over stupid hyperbolic reasons, and if you're on the team that's looking for excuses to keep it that way, then you're on the wrong team.
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