Randomness thread, part two.

[Poopadoop]

Very sorry for hear about your brother Mojo. Mine died from alcoholism a few years ago, and like yours we'd had a falling out. Sucks, man.

Wuffy, good to hear from you! And glad you're life is going better now and that you still love to talk.

Oskar, no-one knows what you're talking about.

[wufwugy]

Mine died from alcoholism a few years ago

Do you know about how much he was drinking and for how long?

Wuffy, good to hear from you! And glad you're life is going better now and that you still love to talk.

Oh I love to talk though I don't argue with people anymore. A real shame I know.

How are things with you?

[wufwugy]

There is nothing to know about women that wasn't already a verse in Ludacris's Area Codes.

The man's not wrong. Women typically want men that other women want.

[Poopadoop]

Do you know about how much he was drinking and for how long?

Probably a 26er (750ml) bottle of the hard stuff every day for at least a dozen years.

Funny thing was he was still functional until the last couple of years. Got up and went to work every day. Then went home and hit the sauce.

The reason we fell out: I told him he was drinking too much. Guess I won that argument.

How are things with you?

Good, apart from living in a country with shit flowing down the rivers.

I actually like where i live now though. It's in the hills, lots of green areas around I can go hiking in. And work is better because they don't insist we come in four days a week anymore since covid happened and they realised it was actually possible to do work from home.

[The Bean Counter]

Ugh, that all sucks, Monkey. Sorry to hear about the life changes but great to hear that you are coping as well as can be.

[wufwugy]

Probably a 26er (750ml) bottle of the hard stuff every day for at least a dozen years.

That seems to track with what I hear people say about many alcoholics.

I'm lucky I get such bad hangovers so I can't hit those numbers. But if I could hit them I probably would. Though I did do b/w 300-400ml a day for a couple years. Alcoholism is people coping and slowly trying to kill themselves. Maybe not always but often.

I actually like where i live now though. It's in the hills, lots of green areas around I can go hiking in. And work is better because they don't insist we come in four days a week anymore since covid happened and they realised it was actually possible to do work from home.

That's great. Hiking is underrated by many.

[Poopadoop]

That seems to track with what I hear people say about many alcoholics.

I have a friend who drinks too much. Not on the level my brother was on, but a few drinks every day.

I tried to get into having a drink every day after work, but even one drink and I was like what's the point, why do people do this?

Nowadays I have about eight or so beers about once a month.

Hiking is underrated by many.

Where I grew up was completely flat prairie. A great hiking area if you like looking at miles and miles of wheat. Or you could drive for an hour to the mountains. Here it's green and hilly and foresty and lakey and yeah much more interesting to wander around in. Are you still in the Pac NW? That's a pretty nice area.

[wufwugy]

I tried to get into having a drink every day after work, but even one drink and I was like what's the point, why do people do this?

It's a blessing that you don't like it.

People do it because they don't like life.

Are you still in the Pac NW? That's a pretty nice area.

Among the best hiking in the world. I don't live there anymore.

[MadMojoMonkey]

The whole anti-doxxing mindset is infuriating.

A) when I was a kid, a phone book was periodically distributed to everyone's doorstep. A literal book of doxxing everyone had.

B) While it is true that nefarious actors gaining access to our private information is not good, those nefarious actors ALREADY have access to our private information through online agents we cede that information to turning around and selling it to whoever without our knowledge or consent.

C) Everyone you don't want to have your personal details already has it, and not posting your personal details in ANY public forum actively prevents people you might want to talk to being able to find you.


FFS, my brother died and I tried for weeks to locate so many old friends who would definitely want to know and at least have the choice to attend his funeral.
I couldn't find 1 of them. Not 1. Occasional photos from over a decade ago with no further links and no indication they'd maintained that presence since then.

People scared of something worth being scared of, but reacting by sheer stupidity.

[oskar]

I tried to get into having a drink every day after work, but even one drink and I was like what's the point, why do people do this?

alcoholism

The whole anti-doxxing mindset is infuriating.

She just doesn't want to talk to you.





Essential emoji! How have I gone this long without it?

[oskar]

This might be a me-problem, but I don't think there's a political, religious or ethnic group whose members I haven't broadly called various ableistic, homophobic or ethnic slurs, and I would rather not make it as easy for - let's say a future employer, as googling my name plus whatever the hot topic of the day is and have my posts come up.

[Poopadoop]

This might be a me-problem, but I don't think there's a political, religious or ethnic group whose members I haven't broadly called various ableistic, homophobic or ethnic slurs, and I would rather not make it as easy for - let's say a future employer, as googling my name plus whatever the hot topic of the day is and have my posts come up.

I thought that's what pseudonyms were for.

I don't have a problem with a rando googling my name and finding out where I work and my work email and phone. It's not like I'm a secret agent or anything.

[OngBonga]

Fortunately I don't put "OngBonga" as my name on my CV, nor do I disclose any of my various Twitter names. I generally give the impression that I am not active on social media. Being a boring 45 y/o fart, that's entirely viable. And it's not far from the truth, my trolling days are largely behind me.

I don't want randos getting my phone number. I don't want salespeople trying to sell me shit, I don't want scammers telling me i missed a delivery I'm not expecting, and I don't want some clever cunt who I offended on Twitter texting me insults.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Exactly. IDK if you can link my actual name to this online name. I mean... I'm sure some could, IDK how, but it feels naive to assume I've perfectly kept these data isolated from each other.

If you google my actual name, though, you can find my contact info, at the very least through my employer.


I guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite in that if it weren't for my employee information being posted by my employer, IDK if anyone would be able to find me, either.
I don't even know whether or not I'm in the phone book because the phone book now requires a monthly subscription to use, so fuck that.

Honestly... IDK what even exists to address this issue, but there must be something.

[OngBonga]

I doubt anyone could successfully dox me without already knowing key information like at least my date of birth. My name is just too common, and my employer doesn't publish contact information for their non-executive staff.

I had someone once pretend they'd doxed me. It was funny because they obviously had nothing but my IP address, which only vaguely gives the location. He was insisting I was in Shrewsbury, which is the most populated town in the region, while not even knowing my real name. It was actually quite pathetic.

I'm sure someone with law enforcement style motivation and resources, like a PI or a determined hacker, could dox me, but they'd probably have to trick me into downloading something to my devices, or actively track me. I'm just not that interesting though, if someone where to go to that trouble it would be a hilarious waste of money.

[CoccoBill]

Really sorry to hear that MMM, condolences.

Exactly. IDK if you can link my actual name to this online name. I mean... I'm sure some could, IDK how, but it feels naive to assume I've perfectly kept these data isolated from each other.

It's 100% possible, depending on what you've done to hide yourself it might take some time and effort. Always assume everything you say and do online will be linked to you.

[wufwugy]

My name is just too common

Pretty sure Twat McBummerface is not that common

[OngBonga]

It's Matt McBummerface you arsehole.

[MadMojoMonkey]

McBummerface?

I hardly know 'er face!

[Poopadoop]

Jesus Christ.

[MadMojoMonkey]

If that's the worst of police corruption, then I think we'd be fine, actually.

A bit hesitant to the be the one to fuck over your colleague/friend's life even though it's obviously the right thing to do?
I'm not upset. The right thing was done in the end. Some compassion and heart was shown along the way. I'm OK with this.

My only gripe would be the compassion and heart were shown to a fellow officer because they were a fellow officer and not because they were a fellow human.
But that's me extrapolating a greater commentary than what's shown in the video.

[Poopadoop]

Dunno, he came pretty close to letting the guy drive home... "you sure you're ok to drive?" when he's obviously not. Then the guy offers him his keys and he doesn't take them. Then when the guy says he's going to drive home the answer is "ok, do what you're gonna do then..."

I mean 1) take his keys when he offers them, so he can't run to his car and take off; then 2) don't keep asking him if he's ok when he's obviously not; and then 3) don't say 'ok' when the guy says he's going to drive home.

It worked out ok in the end but fuck he gave that guy way too much rope.

[Poopadoop]

The public's safety is wayyy more important than making sure Officer McPissedOffHisFace feels good about himself. I get that you wanna feel sorry for the guy but that's the second priority here.

[Poopadoop]

Also, the guy's pissed enough at work to crash his cruiser into a semi. Makes you wonder if this might not be the first time he'd had a drinky-poo or twelve before work, and if so, that would presumably have been noticed by someone.

Can't say for sure from what's in this video obviously but these things tend to be patterns of behavior rather than one-offs.

[MadMojoMonkey]

My internet bill went up by 50% in the past 2 months. I got the bill today with the 2nd increase on it in a row and I got in touch with my internet provider to fix that shit.

yada yada long convo with customer service agent

My current bill is what it is and wont be changed. I can lower my internet speed to reduce my bill going forward.
Fine... whatever it takes. I'll see if I can live with slower internet.

I start googling alternative internet providers in my city and see adds from my provider for almost half what they're charging me this month.
I ask the CS agent... what's up with that?
They give "introductory rates" to attract new customers.
So... a loyal customer who's been paying their bills on time every month for decades gets a worse rate than some new customer? And that sounds 'right' to you?

blah blah

OK, fine. I'll be switching internet providers to use one of their introductory rates ASAP.
I ask the CS agent with my current provider: How long do I need to be using a different internet service before I qualify for your introductory rates again?
They answer, "30 days"

30 days?!?


You're kidding me? The introductory rate periods last at least a few months, up to 1 year.
So the whole system incentivizes changing providers every few months? And all that changing is just more man-hours of work for each company to send someone out to my place to rewire things? And that's your system?

No sweat to me.

Guess I'll be switching to AT&T for a while soon.

[Poopadoop]

My internet bill went up by 50% in the past 2 months. I got the bill today with the 2nd increase on it in a row and I got in touch with my internet provider to fix that shit.

yada yada long convo with customer service agent

My current bill is what it is and wont be changed. I can lower my internet speed to reduce my bill going forward.
Fine... whatever it takes. I'll see if I can live with slower internet.

I start googling alternative internet providers in my city and see adds from my provider for almost half what they're charging me this month.
I ask the CS agent... what's up with that?
They give "introductory rates" to attract new customers.
So... a loyal customer who's been paying their bills on time every month for decades gets a worse rate than some new customer? And that sounds 'right' to you?

blah blah

OK, fine. I'll be switching internet providers to use one of their introductory rates ASAP.
I ask the CS agent with my current provider: How long do I need to be using a different internet service before I qualify for your introductory rates again?
They answer, "30 days"

30 days?!?


You're kidding me? The introductory rate periods last at least a few months, up to 1 year.
So the whole system incentivizes changing providers every few months? And all that changing is just more man-hours of work for each company to send someone out to my place to rewire things? And that's your system?

No sweat to me.

Guess I'll be switching to AT&T for a while soon.

Pretty unsurprising really. The business model is obviously to get people to sign up, then jack up the price and assume not enough people will be bothered to switch suppliers.

It doesn't have to work on everybody, just enough to make it worthwhile. And apparently it does.

Still a pain if you're a consumer though.

[CoccoBill]

Even worse with mobile providers (at least over here). Basically everyone is always on a 12 month discounted subscription, having to shop for a new contract once a year. The best deals you can get are typically 40-50% cheaper than the regular prices. Annoying as a consumer but not much you can do about it.

[Poopadoop]

I assume I'm the only here who watches hockey, apart maybe from Cocco.

But ok, the Stanley Cup Finals this year between Florida and Edmonton are absolutely insane. It's a best of seven series, so whoever wins four games wins it all.

Florida won the first three games pretty handily, apart from Game 3 which was close. So Florida was up 3-0. Pretty much everyone thought the series was over. No-one goes down 3-0 then comes back to win. Ok, one team did it but that was in 1942.

Then it happened.

Edmonton came out and smoked Florida 8-1 in Game 4, 5-3 in Game 5 and 5-1 in Game 6. They didn't just win, they kicked the shit out of them. Their whole team is playing like Bobby Jeebus Gretzky, and Florida looks like a bunch of amateurs out there. So now it's 3-3.





In this scenario, anyone with a brain must think Edmonton's the favourite to win Game 7 and the series, right? I mean they've won the last three games, and delivered a shitkicking each time. They must have all the confidence in the world and Florida's heads must be spinning out of control.

I just checked the betting line for the game. Florida is the fave at 113:100.

People who bet on sports are idiots.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Thanks for explaining what a best of 7 is. I'm sure everyone on this gaming forum was confused and befuddled as to what that is.


Sorry... low hanging fruit and all.

Watching hockey live at the game is intense. As a non-sports person who doesn't even know what offsides or icing is or why they're allowed to just punch each other in the face for a while in this sport, it's so fast-paced and the action is so intense that I can't take my eyes off it.

But watching it on TV is no less boring than watching golf, IMO. Or any sport, really. At least hockey is engaging live, which is more than I can say for almost any other sport.

[Poopadoop]

Watching hockey live at the game is intense. As a non-sports person who doesn't even know what offsides or icing is or why they're allowed to just punch each other in the face for a while in this sport, it's so fast-paced and the action is so intense that I can't take my eyes off it.

I've heard it described as a combination of figure skating and boxing.

But watching it on TV is no less boring than watching golf, IMO. Or any sport, really. At least hockey is engaging live, which is more than I can say for almost any other sport.

If you don't live near a city that has a team, you're kinda stuck with watching it on TV if you want to see it.

What I find weird are the people who go outside the stadium and watch it on a big screen. I guess it's all "be a part of the crowd" thing, but you're still just watching on TV, then sitting in a traffic jam for half an hour afterwards. Never used to be a thing but now it is apparently.

[OngBonga]

Do people watch hockey for the hockey?

[Poopadoop]

Do people watch hockey for the hockey?

The violence is certainly part of the appeal, but there's also a hell of a lot of skill involved. The first two goals on that clip I posted were examples of perfect "saucer" passes. The puck is made to go up in the air just enough to clear a defender, then land back on the ice, right on the teammates' stick blade. All while skating at high speed. It takes years of practice to be able to do that.

[CoccoBill]

I personally prefer watching games on tv, far easier to keep up with what's happening and you see much more, even compared to the best seats. If it's something like a game 7 or a World Championships final, yes it's worth it to go see it live just for the atmosphere which can be insane, if it's just a regular season game with no extra stakes it can be boring af live. I do like hockey but really only watch the big tournaments, not the regular season of any league.

That said, I'm probably staying up for the game 7 on Tuesday night, the puck drops at 3AM local time. FLA has 5 Finns on their roster and Barkov needs a ring.

[oskar]

Since hockey is nowhere on my radar, it's weird to be reminded that that's a real sport. Feels more like the 90's sci-fi movie vision of a future sport... but I'm all there for it.

no extra stakes

That's my problem with sports. I can't get myself to care. I might care if I bet on it, but I don't care enough to start betting.

[OngBonga]

I actually quite liked playing field hockey at school, even though it's considered a girl's sport. That's definitely sport. Ice hockey though, I mean it's actually a great game in terms of skill but for me the fighting as a spectacle just renders the whole thing to be absurd. Why the hell is it even allowed? It promotes thuggery, it sets a terrible example. But it also becomes the brand, the reason people watch. Which of course is why it's allowed. If they banned it, people would stop watching. But it would become a more respectable sport.

[Poopadoop]

I actually quite liked playing field hockey at school, even though it's considered a girl's sport. That's definitely sport. Ice hockey though, I mean it's actually a great game in terms of skill but for me the fighting as a spectacle just renders the whole thing to be absurd. Why the hell is it even allowed? It promotes thuggery, it sets a terrible example. But it also becomes the brand, the reason people watch. Which of course is why it's allowed. If they banned it, people would stop watching. But it would become a more respectable sport.

There's actually a lot less fighting in hockey than their used to be. No fights in this final series, for example. The league has tried to clean things up quite a bit. Goon hockey had it's heyday in the 1970s, and ever since then the game has gradually seen less fighting.

That said, having played hockey I can confirm that it is played in a constant state of aggravation. Playing is basically trying to get from point A to point B while someone does their best to stop you in any way they can. If that means hurting you, so be it. If it looks like you're about to score, then they'll happily take a penalty by chopping at your legs or arms with their stick. If they "accidentally" whack you in the face, well, shit happens. So it's understandable players often lose their cool at some cunt who's trying to do surgery on them with a hockey stick.

[oskar]

I've never been into any team sport. I've discovered open water swimming for cardio in the last couple of years, and it's great for me because I lack discipline, but with open water swimming you either finish your workout, or fish will eat you.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Do people watch hockey for the hockey?

I'm lucky that a "city" just outside of St Louis has a minor league hockey team. The action is amazing, though real fans can probably note where the minor league is a teensy bit slower than the pros.

The thing is that there's no fighting in the minor leagues. Those guys want to get moved up to the big leagues way more than they want to get injured for "strategic" reasons.

The strategy I've been told is that if you can get one of the "worse" players on your team to get in a fight with one of the "better" players on the other team, then both fighters go to the penalty box, but the net effect is a pro for the team with the worse player taken off the ice.

Which, there's a sense to it, but then... why would the "better" player ever get involved in a fight?

[The Bean Counter]

I've watched all the North American sports live a few times. I like hockey and baseball a lot for different reasons: the hockey for the aggression and baseball for the laid back nature of watching it and all the stats (which is also why I like watching cricket). I find NBA and NFL a bit dull to watch live. With the NFL, it's mostly because I don't understand the intricacies of the plays and find it better to watch on TV.

There's a UK hockey league that's decent enough for the uneducated like me. I've been to the Sheffield Steelers a few times and like the family friendly nature of it.

[Poopadoop]

And the winner of the Stanley Cup is...


Boris Johnson!?!?!




(congrats Florida. p.s. i hate you)

[Poopadoop]

And the winner of the Stanley Cup is...


Boris Johnson!?!?!




(congrats Florida. p.s. you suck)

[MadMojoMonkey]

I find NBA and NFL a bit dull to watch live. With the NFL, it's mostly because I don't understand the intricacies of the plays and find it better to watch on TV.

My dad played college (American) football, and after college played in the minor league for a year. But then that team's coach stole all the player's money and disappeared and left them all totally fucked, so he had to get a real job.

Point is, he loved the game and was an avid fan throughout my childhood, and so... I've been exposed to that sport more than any other (except maybe bowling, also due to Dad's hobby) and I do know the rules and whatnot.

I've never been to an NFL game live. I can watch it on TV, though, if that's what other people in the room are excited to do, and I can follow along and cheer at the right moments and call the refs "blind / idiots" at other moments and mostly sounds like I know what I'm talking about.

[MadMojoMonkey]

1 = 1
1 = sqrt(1)
1 = sqrt( (-1)(-1) )
1 = sqrt(-1)*sqrt(-1)
1 = i*i
1 = -1

Math is a lie. They've taken us for fools!

[OngBonga]

It's fine until the 4th one.

sqrt is not a value, it's a function. You can't multiply by a function. What's ten multiplied by multiplication? But that's what you're essentially doing. You're breaking the bracket by multiplying -1 by square root.

I think. I'm not great with this sort of thing but obviously there's some hand waving nonsense going on here.

[MadMojoMonkey]

It's fine until the 4th one.

sqrt is not a value, it's a function. You can't multiply by a function. What's ten multiplied by multiplication? But that's what you're essentially doing. You're breaking the bracket by multiplying -1 by square root.

I think. I'm not great with this sort of thing but obviously there's some hand waving nonsense going on here.

You can totes multiply functions. You can even put functions inside other functions and multiply those by other functions.
You're mixing up functions and operators, though. Multiplication is an operation. A function may not imply operations.
f(x) = 2 is a function, but no matter what input you give f, f always returns 2. No operation was performed.
As long as the output is uniquely determined by the input, it's a function.

SQRT is, as such, technically, not a function, but an operation. However, it's common in proofs and math texts to use notation that where not explicitly stated, the SQRT operator returns a positive value, and is therefor defined as a function.

Depending on how you look at the 2nd line, that's the problem or the 4th line is the problem because of the 2nd line.

The 2nd line says 1 = sqrt(1), which is, strictly speaking, not true. sqrt(1) = +/-1.
If you don't ignore the negative part of the square root, this line is simply false.

However, given the form of the proof, it is a reasonable assumption that they're using the notation in which since the negative wasn't explicitly stated, we're using the function form of the square root.
With that interpretation, we have a problem going from line 3 to line 4.

The rule applied is valid
sqrt( a*b ) = sqrt(a)*sqrt(b)
if we allow all the sqrt()'s to be + or -.


However, if we strictly interpret those sqrt()'s as positive, then that rule breaks if both numbers are negative and you don't cancel the minus signs before you break it up.

[MadMojoMonkey]

The fact that you can break up sqrt( a*b ) into sqrt(a)*sqrt(b) is really a special case of a much more general rule.

(a*b)^c = a^c * b^c

It's just that when c = 1/2, that exponent is the square root.


Fractions in the exponent are like this:
x^(2/3) is the cube root of x squared

x^(1/2) is the square root of x

[OngBonga]

I'm still none the wiser lol. Only thing I'm sure of is 1 does not equal -1

0.9999999..... recurring does precisely equal 1 though.

[Poopadoop]

I've never been into any team sport. I've discovered open water swimming for cardio in the last couple of years, and it's great for me because I lack discipline, but with open water swimming you either finish your workout, or fish will eat you.

Stupid Eurolibtards and their poo-free water. With fish in it no less! Ha!

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'm still none the wiser lol. Only thing I'm sure of is 1 does not equal -1

Maybe an example will help?

sqrt(36) = +/-6
sqrt(4*9) = +/-6
sqrt(4)*sqrt(9) = (+/-2)(+/-3) = +/-6

sqrt(36) = sqrt(4)*sqrt(9)
+/-6 = +/-6

with a quick note that whenever you see multiple +/- in any equation you must always pick the upper or lower sign in all cases.
So the above says 6 = 6 AND -6 = -6.
It does NOT say 6 = -6 or -6 = 6

Now if I pull the trick from above,
sqrt(4*9) = +/-6
sqrt( (-4)*(-9) ) = sqrt(-4)*sqrt(-9) = (+/-2i)(+/-3i) = +/-6 i^2 = +/-6 (-1) = +/-6

sqrt(36) = sqrt(-4)*sqrt(-9)

This is a valid application of algebraic logic. I always acknowledged that the square root has 2 results for any non-0 input at every step and it all worked out fine.

Note in the 2nd example, if you multiply +/-n by (-1), it does not change +/-n.
In some contexts, you may see a textbook say +/-6 * (-1) = -/+ 6, with the +/- sign flipped. That doesn't change the result, but it can be useful notation in other situations. It is not relevant here; I only include this fact to show that the multiplication by -1 technically does do something to the +/-. It's just that in this case, what it does has no effect on our equation.

[oskar]

Stupid Eurolibtards and their poo-free water. With fish in it no less! Ha!

Oh, there's definitely poo in it.

[CoccoBill]

0.9999999..... recurring does precisely equal 1 though.

Now I ain't no mathematician but this gotta be sum bullsheet. It'll never reach 1.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Now I ain't no mathematician but this gotta be sum bullsheet. It'll never reach 1.

As long as there's infinite 9's, 0.999... = 1
If there's any fewer than infinite 9's, it is not equal.

Which isn't as weird as it seems at first.
1/3 = 0.333...
but only if there's infinite 3's. For any fewer than infinite 3's, 0.333... does not equal 1/3.
You can do long division on 1/3 and see exactly why it works out that way.

Well, after you did that long division, it's relatively easy to see that 0.333... * 3 = .999...
But 0.333... = 1/3, and 1/3 * 3 = 1.
So 0.999... = 1


It's much more than that, though.

0.125 = 0.124999...
(repeat the 9 infinite times)


The deeper true fact that is weird is that all numbers with terminating decimal expansions - that is, all numbers that can be writing with a finite number of digits - can also be written with an infinite number of digits by reducing the final digit by 1 and then tacking on infinite 9's.


It's not even a quirk of the decimal system. It shows up in binary and hex, and indeed all number systems. It's weird, but also everywhere.
In binary, you apply the above rule, but tack on infinite 1's.
In hex, you apply the above rule, but tack on infinite 15's.

Whatever the base, if the number can be written in a finite number of digits, it also has a way to be written with an infinite number of digits.

[CoccoBill]

I'm sure the history is that they just decided it should be like that since it works. More a matter of notation, while the difference is infinitely small (I guess for all intents and purposes meaningless), there's still a difference. "~=" would be easy to agree with.

[Poopadoop]

I'm sure the history is that they just decided it should be like that since it works. More a matter of notation, while the difference is infinitely small (I guess for all intents and purposes meaningless), there's still a difference. "~=" would be easy to agree with.

While I agree it's counter-intuitive, if you take his example of 1/3 = .333 repeating, then imagine you divide a 1 three times and so have three separate numbers that are all .333 repeating. Add those three numbers back together and their sum has to be the 1 you started out with.

IOW, .333 repeating x 3 = 1. You could also reasonably say that .333 repeating x 3 = .999 repeating.

The only logical conclusion then is that .999 repeating = 1.

I think the problem here is your mind assumes the repeating number ends at some point, when it doesn't.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'm sure the history is that they just decided it should be like that since it works. More a matter of notation, while the difference is infinitely small (I guess for all intents and purposes meaningless), there's still a difference. "~=" would be easy to agree with.

Everyone who first hears this thinks it's some trick or otherwise a nonsense that someone who certainly knows better is trying to fool you with. Even mathematicians. It's just so bone simple to prove, though, that it is what it is. It's counterintuitive, but easily provable in many, many ways from utterly simple to brain-bleedingly complicated.

Another elegant proof (aside from 1/3 * 3) is as follows
Assume we have some object, 0.999... and we call it N.
We don't know what it is, we just thought it up, and we're going to play with it, just for fun.

N = 0.999...
then
10N = 9.999...
so
10N - N = 9.999... - 0.999... = 9
(10 - 1)N = 9
9N = 9
N = 9/9
N = 1

We started by saying N = 0.999..., and we conclude that N = 1. All we did was utterly rudimentary algebra.

We could ask, what is 1-N?
1 - n = 0.000...1
That doesn't look like 0 at first glance, but, and this is VITAL, that "..." represents an infinite number of zeros. We will never even get to that last digit 1. That's no different than 0.000... It's exactly equal to 0.
Then 1 - 0.999... = 0.
So it must be that 0.999... = 1

Here's Vihart from 12 years ago talking about it.
If this isn't your speed, I think every math YouTuber is required by law to do a video on this topic.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I think the problem here is your mind assumes the repeating number ends at some point, when it doesn't.

I've explained this to dozens of people. That's one of the potential hang-ups, but not the only 1.

A lot of people just don't like the notion that every (rational) number has 2 "names" on the number line. But at the end of the day, it's not really different than 1/2 = 0.5. It's just 2 names for the same number, in a manner of speaking.


If you can find someone who has computer knowledge about binary, octal, and hexidecimal bases, then you can show them how this annoying counterintuitive double-name problem is an artifact in all these systems.
in binary, 0.111... = 1
in octal, 0.777... = 1
in hex, 0.FFF... = 1

in any base, 0 point [largest digit represented in base] repeating = 1.

[Poopadoop]

I'm sure the history is that they just decided it should be like that since it works. More a matter of notation, while the difference is infinitely small (I guess for all intents and purposes meaningless), there's still a difference. "~=" would be easy to agree with.

While I agree it's counter-intuitive, if you take his example of 1/3 = .333 repeating, then imagine you divide a 1 three times and so have three separate numbers that are all .333 repeating. Add those three numbers back together and their sum has to be the 1 you started out with.

IOW, .333 repeating x 3 = 1. You could also reasonably say that .333 repeating x 3 = .999 repeating.

The only logical conclusion then is that .999 repeating = 1.

I think the problem here is your mind assumes the repeating number ends at some point, when it doesn't.

[OngBonga]

Stupid Eurolibtards and their poo-free water. With fish in it no less! Ha!

Austria might have clean rivers but the French don't. Looks like they won't be able to use the Seine for the Olympics because it's full of shit, rather than fish.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I heard about that. The French have some big plan to clean up the river, but it's not at all a given that it can be done to the scale needed in the time limit they face.

They say the plan wouldn't be only for the Olympics, but would continue afterward. They say they want the river to be a safe place to swim going forward.

I mean. When it comes to rivers I wouldn't swim in, St Louis has 2 of them.

[CoccoBill]

You guys must have meant "1/3 ~= 0.333...".

[Poopadoop]

You guys must have meant "1/3 ~= 0.333...".

[Poopadoop]

Austria might have clean rivers but the French don't. Looks like they won't be able to use the Seine for the Olympics because it's full of shit, rather than fish.

It's bad to have your busiest waterway polluted, but not uncommon. I think the UK is taking it to a new level though. I live out in the country and I can't let my dog swim in the local river because he comes out smelling like a sewer.

[MadMojoMonkey]

You guys must have meant "1/3 ~= 0.333...".

[OngBonga]

It's bad to have your busiest waterway polluted, but not uncommon. I think the UK is taking it to a new level though. I live out in the country and I can't let my dog swim in the local river because he comes out smelling like a sewer.

It comes down to population density, plain and simple. The UK has high population density compared to, say Austria. That means there's more human filth and industrial waste that needs to go somewhere.

I wish our rivers were cleaner, obviously, but just wishing them clean isn't going to make them clean. And it's not a problem that the UK has and Europe doesn't as you tried to imply. In fact, if you bothered to actually research it, you'd find our rivers are no worse than many in Germany.

What's also interesting is if you look at a map of waterway pollution in the UK, it's England, Wales and Northern Ireland that have dirty rivers, while Scotland and RoI are very clean. So... the filth is where the people and industry are.

[OngBonga]

I heard about that. The French have some big plan to clean up the river, but it's not at all a given that it can be done to the scale needed in the time limit they face.

They say the plan wouldn't be only for the Olympics, but would continue afterward. They say they want the river to be a safe place to swim going forward.

I mean. When it comes to rivers I wouldn't swim in, St Louis has 2 of them.

I wouldn't swim in British rivers, because I don't like cold water. People do swim in our rivers though without getting the plague. Remember where we hung out at the bridge in Ludlow? That's a popular swimming spot. The river Teme isn't even all that clean but it doesn't stop people from taking a dip. They're not that bad. If you're near a sewage outlet, obviously it's worse, but that shit has to go somewhere, and however you treat it, it's still pollution.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I wouldn't swim in British rivers, because I don't like cold water. People do swim in our rivers though without getting the plague. Remember where we hung out at the bridge in Ludlow? That's a popular swimming spot. The river Teme isn't even all that clean but it doesn't stop people from taking a dip. They're not that bad. If you're near a sewage outlet, obviously it's worse, but that shit has to go somewhere, and however you treat it, it's still pollution.

I know much smaller bodies of flowing water are still rivers, but when you grew up in St Louis, where 2 of the largest rivers on North America come together, I just don't think of a bit of shallow water I could walk across as a river.

They are, of course, rivers. Just not what comes to mind first for me.

But yeah, that spot was awesome. I hope to go back some day!
I could totally see dipping my feet in the water on a hot day. Even getting in for a dip. The water's clear and you can see the bottom. The current is not so strong that you can't beat it.

Near St Louis, the Mississippi is like 600 m across, and ~8 m deep, but with huge variation in the depth. The current is strong, and the water is silty and dark, so you can't see very deep into it. Swimming from a boat out in the river is a bit safer because A) you have a rescue craft right there and B) you wont be able to touch the bottom and whatever sharp garbage might be down there.

I'm sure there's plenty of pollution in the rivers by the time it gets to St Louis. Everything that gets dumped in the Missouri River surely makes its way here and into the Mississippi. Everything upstream of us makes its way here, then down to the Gulf of Mexico.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Funny story. Both Allison and I kept hearing your accent saying the Seven River instead of Severn, and just rolled with it the whole time we hung out with you. What the hell do we know? Never heard of the Seven River, but now I have.

It was only later that we heard someone with a different accent say Severn that we were both like, "OOOOOhhhhhhh."

[OngBonga]

Ha yes the River Severn is basically pronounced like the number 7, although some accents might have a subtle difference.

Though I still work in Ludlow, I now live right next to the River Severn, where I am that ranges from around 0.5m in depth to 4m for a normal range, and close to 6m in peak floods. It's nothing compared to the Mississippi obviously but for British rivers it's a beast, the longest in Great Britain. People do go for a dip in there at this time of year when it's at it lowest level but I can't imagine it's very clean. We're just downstream from Worcester, a city the river flows through, and it's already been flowing through several other large towns, and lots of farmland. So the River Severn is likely to be filthy. But the Teme is much nicer

[oskar]

Yesterday I noticed a new uneven mole on my head, and I thought: I knew I shouldn't have skipped that third layer of factor 50 sunblock and now I'm riddled with cancer. I scratched it, and it fell off. Just dirt. That was my big health scare for the year.
Don't forget to use sunblock, everybody!

[Poopadoop]

...

[Poopadoop]

Goddamn Eurolibtards with their sunshine. I bet it even gets above 20C where you live too.

There've literally been 3 sunny days here since April. I know because I've counted them.

Worst. Summer. Ever.

[oskar]

...about that. If it got below 20C at any point, I would be so happy.

[Poopadoop]

Gott in Himmel!

Ok look assholes. I've been driving a petrol car my whole life, heating my house with gas, occasionally burning leaves in my backyard, and my whole attitude to recycling has been pretty lackadaisacal. So where's this global warming you promised me??? Why is it all going to Eurolandia?

[MadMojoMonkey]

Meanwhile in St Louis.. flash floods today.

I was just about to leave work and my phone went nuts with an emergency klaxon heralding doom and destruction.
It was like, DO NOT go outside. FFS. Are you crazy? They replaced the roads with rivers for a while.
Just chill for a couple hours until it goes away. mmmkay?

It's like this whole climate change thing is about the increasing of extremes, and not really "Oh shit it's 2 degrees warmer outside"

[Poopadoop]

I wonder how Liz' first day at Microsoft is going?