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Randomness thread, part two.

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  1. #21826
    Quote Originally Posted by NightGizmo View Post
    Obesity causes all kinds of other medical problems (diabetes, heart disease, joint problems, ...), which adds significant costs to the healthcare system. So their fat actually does cost me money, because my healthcare premiums go up to subsidize their bad decisions.
    Right, so I cost you money by smoking, and also by not jogging on a daily basis, also by not eating my 5 a day fruit and veg, also I have sugar in my tea... I have no idea how you even have any money left at the end of the week considering I'm far from the only person costing you money with my terrible lifestyle choices.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  2. #21827
    Basically, one can only take the view that obese people are costing you money and deserve your contempt if you're some kind of health freak. Then you might have a leg to stand on. But I also hope you hate smokers as much as fatties.

    Unless, of course, you're just using health to excuse your prejudiced views about how disgusting fat people are. Which is fair enough, but call a spade a spade.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  3. #21828
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Right, so I cost you money by smoking, and also by not jogging on a daily basis, also by not eating my 5 a day fruit and veg, also I have sugar in my tea... I have no idea how you even have any money left at the end of the week considering I'm far from the only person costing you money with my terrible lifestyle choices.
    Would be a good argument but being fat increases health problems massively of which none of the other things you mention come close to. It isn't even about being healthy having a bad diet and not being fat is much better for you than eating too much healthy food and being fat.

    Smoking creates a huge amount of tax that helps pay for the problems it creates. Food does not.
  4. #21829
    That's a reasonable rebuttal, but I'm still not satisfied that fattie-bashing is anything other than prejudism.

    Smoking doesn't serve a purpose. It's pure nurtured addiciton, there's no instinct that tells us we need to smoke. Food, on the other hand, is essential for survival. Kids need to eat. Some kids eat too much. Why? Maybe because their parents are irresponsible fat fucks who think a big mac is an acceptable regular dinner for a child. That's hardly the child's fault. Or perhaps the child is bullied at school and has distant parents, perhaps the only time little Suzy is happy is when she's stuffing her face with cake. Well, if that was literally the only time I was happy, I'd probably be a fat fuck too.

    I think in the vast majority of cases, poor eating discipline is developed as a child, and it's extremely difficult to change such habits in adult life, because it's rooted in psychology. The fact we need to eat makes it even more difficult to get control of than smoking... you can't just cut food out of your life altogether, so you'll always know how fucking fantastic eating is.

    Bad food should be taxed more for the same reason ciggies are taxed to shit. It's not the fault of fatties that it isn't.

    I don't find fat people attractive, but I don't have a problem with them per se. I think they get a rough deal. Most of them don't want to be fat, they just are.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  5. #21830
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  6. #21831
    I mean fatties get a worse deal than I do. I have made the choice to waste my life away smoking, I refuse to work, which costs the taxpayer money. More money than a fat fuck who goes to work. Yet I don't have to concern myself about prejudism, because it's not like I have an "unemployed" tattoo on my forehead. Some people have a problem with my lifestyle choices, fair enough, people are enittled to their opinion. But they only find out I'm unemployed if they ask. Fat people have nowhere to hide except their own house, with all their food.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  7. #21832
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I mean fatties get a worse deal than I do. I have made the choice to waste my life away smoking, I refuse to work, which costs the taxpayer money. More money than a fat fuck who goes to work. Yet I don't have to concern myself about prejudism, because it's not like I have an "unemployed" tattoo on my forehead. Some people have a problem with my lifestyle choices, fair enough, people are enittled to their opinion. But they only find out I'm unemployed if they ask. Fat people have nowhere to hide except their own house, with all their food.
    I'm pretty sure you've posted pics and looked like a bum.
    I'm the king of bongo, baby I'm the king of bongo bong.
  8. #21833
    Quote Originally Posted by rong View Post
    I'm pretty sure you've posted pics and looked like a bum.
    Only because you know me and know I'm unemployed. I haven't posted that many pics of me here, and one that I have done I'm wearing a suit and look smart as fuck (for me at least), so I'm pretty sure you're saying that because you are aware I'm unemployed and I have long hair so I tick one obvious box.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  9. #21834
    I look like a bum when I have a beard, but that's a rarity during summer at least.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  10. #21835
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    Parents who think frequent mcdonalds meals are ok for kids absolutely should be shamed for the sake of the child.

    Just like parents that encourage a kid to smoke should be shamed.
    Last edited by JKDS; 08-18-2016 at 08:48 AM.
  11. #21836
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    Parents who think frequent mcdonalds meals are ok for kids absolutely should be shamed for the sake of the child.

    Just like parents that encourage a kid to smoke should be shamed.
    Eating Mcdonalds regularly doesn't make you fat. Eating too much makes you fat. A cheeseburger is 263 calories a big mac burger is 540. Hardly mind blowing numbers. I'm actually now wondering to myself why I don't eat 8 cheeseburgers a day.
  12. #21837
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    That's a reasonable rebuttal, but I'm still not satisfied that fattie-bashing is anything other than prejudism.

    Smoking doesn't serve a purpose. It's pure nurtured addiciton, there's no instinct that tells us we need to smoke. Food, on the other hand, is essential for survival. Kids need to eat. Some kids eat too much. Why? Maybe because their parents are irresponsible fat fucks who think a big mac is an acceptable regular dinner for a child. That's hardly the child's fault. Or perhaps the child is bullied at school and has distant parents, perhaps the only time little Suzy is happy is when she's stuffing her face with cake. Well, if that was literally the only time I was happy, I'd probably be a fat fuck too.

    I think in the vast majority of cases, poor eating discipline is developed as a child, and it's extremely difficult to change such habits in adult life, because it's rooted in psychology. The fact we need to eat makes it even more difficult to get control of than smoking... you can't just cut food out of your life altogether, so you'll always know how fucking fantastic eating is.

    Bad food should be taxed more for the same reason ciggies are taxed to shit. It's not the fault of fatties that it isn't.

    I don't find fat people attractive, but I don't have a problem with them per se. I think they get a rough deal. Most of them don't want to be fat, they just are.
    Am I completely wrong here or is fat shaming really not that big of a thing? This is besides the point I'm just wondering.

    To say that there is no instinct that makes us want to smoke is false. There clearly is. That's why people start smoking. Yes it's not something you have to do but neither is eating too much food. At a certain age a kid decides how much they eat, this is harder for some than others due to the amount of food they are given and bad habits. If you're being given too much food chances are you're eating it. There are issues that need to be addressed to deal with weight problems across the world & I don't think shaming fat people does this but making out that it's acceptable certainly doesn't either. I don't buy into choices not having negative outcomes just for the sake of it, if eating makes you happy eat all you like but if someone calls you a fat fuck that just happens to be a result of your choice.

    I can't be bothered getting into a conversation about dealing with addiction and how cold turkey is a shit method and actually the way to quit things is to cut down gradually (exceptions exist obv) but I don't buy your point about food being harder to cut down on than smoking. Not really relevant to the conversation anyway.

    I don't think taxing bad food really helps the problem either. All it does it take money out of the pockets of poor people (most likely to be fat, poor diets, etc) who could use it for other things.
  13. #21838
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    Eating Mcdonalds regularly doesn't make you fat.
    Ok if you want to be particular about this, you're right. But it's a reasonable throwaway comment because it's reasonable to assume that someone who eat there on a regular basis has otherwise poor eating habits. Maccies is fine if it's like you're only treat, but maccies monday, chippie tuesday, chinky wednesday etc... these are people who generally become fat.

    And it's not always a case of eating more makes you fatter. People's bodies work differently to one another. If I eat loads, I just shit more and put no extra weight on. I'd really need to eat beyond my comfort zone to become a fattie, like keep eating when I'm full. And even then I'd probably just be sick. Some people are lucky in that regard. Others, they can eat a "normal" amount and pile the pounds on, they have to be much more careful about what they eat and in what quantities.

    It's really not a very simple issue, so the idea of shaming fat people for being fat is really not very pleasant. It's not too different to shaming someone for being anorexic, which is obviously not cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  14. #21839
    To say that there is no instinct that makes us want to smoke is false. There clearly is. That's why people start smoking.
    That's not how instinct works. There was no "hunger" for nicotine before addiction. People start smoking for many reasons, but usually it's along the line of thinking it's cool. It's not because it's in our DNA.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  15. #21840
    Am I completely wrong here or is fat shaming really not that big of a thing? This is besides the point I'm just wondering.
    It's a thing in society. Fat people are bullied for their appearance. Maybe it's not as widespread as it used to be, times are changing and people are becoming more politically correct, but fatties have been left behind while one-armed ethnic transgenders get mollycoddled. Calling someone a fat fuck isn't a hate crime, calling someone a nigger is.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  16. #21841
    Here's two scenarios...

    1. Dan's kid gets sent home from school for calling some kid a fat fuck,

    2. Dan's kid gets sent home from school for calling some kid a black bastard.

    How does Dan deal with these secnarios? Exactly the same? I doubt it. First one, he probably says something along the lines of "you really shouldn't pick on people for being fat, it's not their fault, try to be nice". The latter, I imagine Dan is going to be a lot more cross with his child, perhaps to the point of grounding or docking pocket money to really impress the point that such behaviour is unaccpetable.

    That's what I mean by it's a thing in society. It's much worse being racist then being fattist. Mocking fat people is pretty much socially acceptable in most cases.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  17. #21842
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Ok if you want to be particular about this, you're right. But it's a reasonable throwaway comment because it's reasonable to assume that someone who eat there on a regular basis has otherwise poor eating habits. Maccies is fine if it's like you're only treat, but maccies monday, chippie tuesday, chinky wednesday etc... these are people who generally become fat.

    And it's not always a case of eating more makes you fatter. People's bodies work differently to one another. If I eat loads, I just shit more and put no extra weight on. I'd really need to eat beyond my comfort zone to become a fattie, like keep eating when I'm full. And even then I'd probably just be sick. Some people are lucky in that regard. Others, they can eat a "normal" amount and pile the pounds on, they have to be much more careful about what they eat and in what quantities.

    It's really not a very simple issue, so the idea of shaming fat people for being fat is really not very pleasant. It's not too different to shaming someone for being anorexic, which is obviously not cool.
    The reason I make the distinction is because it is an important one and a myth that damages most peoples health.

    Eating too much does make you fat. If peoples bodies work differently all that means is that some people can eat more than others and have a different effect, but if you eat too much for you you will get fat. That's how it works. It's also complete rubbish that skinny people think they can eat loads and not get fat. Most of this is them not realising what they're actually eating on a daily basis. To think that fat people aren't eating much and getting fat is also rubbish. You'd have to be an absolutely tiny woman living a very sedentary life for eating 2000 calories a day to make you big & if you're that small it becomes much harder to eat that much.

    It's worth noting that fat people have the same problem in reverse. They don't realise the amount of food they are eating and underestimate it when asked. Lots of studies show this, when people keep food journals and don't write at the time of eating they always miss out tonnes of extras. Like saying I had a salad for lunch, the base of which might have been a couple of hundred calories and I think I'm being healthy but not when I add tonnes of dressing, nuts, croutons, bacon bits which add up to more than the actual salad part of the salad.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    That's not how instinct works. There was no "hunger" for nicotine before addiction. People start smoking for many reasons, but usually it's along the line of thinking it's cool. It's not because it's in our DNA.
    Yet eating too much is? Rubbish. It's exactly the same.
    Last edited by Savy; 08-18-2016 at 09:26 AM.
  18. #21843
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Here's two scenarios...

    1. Dan's kid gets sent home from school for calling some kid a fat fuck,

    2. Dan's kid gets sent home from school for calling some kid a black bastard.

    How does Dan deal with these secnarios? Exactly the same? I doubt it. First one, he probably says something along the lines of "you really shouldn't pick on people for being fat, it's not their fault, try to be nice". The latter, I imagine Dan is going to be a lot more cross with his child, perhaps to the point of grounding or docking pocket money to really impress the point that such behaviour is unaccpetable.

    That's what I mean by it's a thing in society. It's much worse being racist then being fattist. Mocking fat people is pretty much socially acceptable in most cases.
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's a thing in society. Fat people are bullied for their appearance. Maybe it's not as widespread as it used to be, times are changing and people are becoming more politically correct, but fatties have been left behind while one-armed ethnic transgenders get mollycoddled. Calling someone a fat fuck isn't a hate crime, calling someone a nigger is.
    There's a massive difference between the two. Just put it in some historical context.
  19. #21844
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  20. #21845
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    Yet eating too much is? Rubbish. It's exactly the same.
    Eating is insticnt. Eating too much, it's probably psyhcology at play, not instinct. But the desire to eat is pure instinct, and our brains are flooded with dopamine when we eat, we get a natural reward for doing something we insinctively knew we had to do. Being fat is not a choice in the sense "i know I'll get fat by eating too much".

    Me, I eat until I'm not hungry any more. If I'm hungry, I want to eat. What makes other people more hungry than me? I really do not know, but obviously hunger is something that we all have different levels of, and it affects us differently. I can deal with hunger for an hour maybe, two at a push. Some people can't cope with it for five minutes.

    Honestly, if being hungry made me unhappy, and eating solved that problem, and being fat didn't make me more unhappy than being hungry, then I'd eat more. Being unhappy is unhealthy too.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  21. #21846
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    There's a massive difference between the two. Just put it in some historical context.
    Oh history, yeah. So we need to shame fatties for another century or so before we acknowledge that prejudism is the same across the board, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  22. #21847
    Alright, well calling someone a trasngender fuck is a hate crime, calling someone a fat fuck is not. History irrelevant here.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  23. #21848
    Gingers get a rough deal here too. Gingerism should be a hate crime too.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  24. #21849
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Oh history, yeah. So we need to shame fatties for another century or so before we acknowledge that prejudism is the same across the board, right?
    This is you missing the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Alright, well calling someone a trasngender fuck is a hate crime, calling someone a fat fuck is not. History irrelevant here.
    I mean it probably is just isn't precedent for it to be treated as such. Same for gingers too. Calling someone names isn't a hate crime either.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/di...nd-hate-crime/

    Hate crimes seem a bit ridiculous to me though. For example assaulting someone for shits and giggles doesn't strike me as a less crime than doing it due to someones race. I don't know a lot about it though so could be missing the point.
    Last edited by Savy; 08-18-2016 at 09:38 AM.
  25. #21850
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    This is you missing the point.
    No, this is me trying to dismiss the point you were trying to make, because it was irrelevant to the point I was making. Racism is worse than fattism because of history, I know. I should've used transgenderism instead of racism to make my point, silly me.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  26. #21851
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    Quote Originally Posted by rong View Post
    "I'm not prone to hyperbole!"

    BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Oh god! oh god, stop!
    I can't breath.

    BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Gimme. Must have.
  27. #21852
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    If weight is a choice, and not a predilection, then why are some babies fatter than others?

    Why is it that I have the gut of a 40-year old man, and have since I was in my late 20's, no matter how much I eat? I've spend weeks eating all whole foods, self prepared, lots of greens and veg and not lost my gut. Then I switch back to lazy eating and still no change.
    Sup wit dat?
  28. #21853
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Alright, well calling someone a trasngender fuck is a hate crime, calling someone a fat fuck is not. History irrelevant here.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  29. #21854
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    Either way... why are you wasting your time trying to figure out if there are good excuses to be mean to people? Is anyone here actually putting forward the notion that shaming is the most effective way to affect change? Is anyone putting forward that it's OK to be mean to someone over this issue?

    Is it really your best self who thinks a few tax dollars is all it takes to justify hurting someone's feelings?
  30. #21855
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    A+
  31. #21856
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    If weight is a choice, and not a predilection, then why are some babies fatter than others?

    Why is it that I have the gut of a 40-year old man, and have since I was in my late 20's, no matter how much I eat? I've spend weeks eating all whole foods, self prepared, lots of greens and veg and not lost my gut. Then I switch back to lazy eating and still no change.
    Sup wit dat?
    This guy went from moribidly obese to underweight eating trash:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WclMZbVxo2s
    He has another youtube buddy who did the same thing with the same results. It's good to eat healthy, but at the end of the day, it's the calories that count.
    The reason for your gut is probably that you have bad core strength. Do some push-ups.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  32. #21857
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    If weight is a choice, and not a predilection, then why are some babies fatter than others?

    Why is it that I have the gut of a 40-year old man, and have since I was in my late 20's, no matter how much I eat? I've spend weeks eating all whole foods, self prepared, lots of greens and veg and not lost my gut. Then I switch back to lazy eating and still no change.
    Sup wit dat?
    Surely that is down to the diet of the mother? I'd be interested to see data of babies weights as they get older and the weight of their families. The link that fatter familes, fatter babies that stay fatter throughout their early years would hold up but there must be fat babies from none fat families where the mother has just eaten too much during pregnancy.

    Body shapes are a lot harder to change than gaining/losing weight. Eating certain types of food isn't going to make a huge difference to what you look like. Out of interest what weights were you at at these times? I struggle to see how you don't lose your gut if you lose a lot of weight but proportionally it could always be bigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Stanhope bit
    I kept wanting to post about how everyone gets discriminated against based on their looks and how I'm an ugly bastard and get discriminated against negatively as a result but wasn't sure how to put it in.
    Last edited by Savy; 08-18-2016 at 10:55 AM.
  33. #21858
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    I weigh ~190 lb. It fluctuates about 5 pounds up or down, but never really deviates from that.

    In perspective, I'm 6'2" tall, so still on the slender side of svelte, but it's all in my gut.

    The calories thing has to be it. Calories in - calories out = calories gained.
  34. #21859
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    I believe we have a duty to our fellow man.

    I believe we should each strive to be the best we can be.

    But we have enormous people going on TV and talking about how being 400 lbs is healthy, and that we need to check our thin privilege.

    Being fat is not a good thing. We should not celebrate it. But the day that it becomes "bad" to scold someone for being obese or for making their children obese is the day we give up on each other.
  35. #21860
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I weigh ~190 lb. It fluctuates about 5 pounds up or down, but never really deviates from that.

    In perspective, I'm 6'2" tall, so still on the slender side of svelte, but it's all in my gut.

    The calories thing has to be it. Calories in - calories out = calories gained.
    Exactly. Things to note: you can't target a specific fat deposit. Genetics determines where fat gets stored, and the first place it got stored will be the last place it leaves. It also gets much harder to lose fat as you get skinnier, as a greater calorie deficit is needed. You not only have to stop eating the amount that causes weight gain, you have to start eating the amount that causes weight loss. And different deficites will show results in different periods of time. Example, a deficit of 100 calories a day will show a loss of only about 1lb a month.
  36. #21861
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    Abs are another story entirely. You won't see them unless you're under 10% body fat, maybe under 8%. Most people that have the will to diet and exercise to get to 8% live in a gym
  37. #21862
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    And different deficites will show results in different periods of time. Example, a deficit of 100 calories a day will show a loss of only about 1lb a month.
    I think it's something like 3500 calories = 1lb. So 500 calories defecit a day means losing a pound a week. As your weight goes down your calories needed goes down.

    That's why most peoples weight loss goals are ridiculous unless they're actually really big to begin with. People treat losing 1lb a week as if it'd be easy. Cutting 500 calories out of a 2k diet is hard, burning 500 calories doing exercise is actually hard work.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    Abs are another story entirely. You won't see them unless you're under 10% body fat, maybe under 8%. Most people that have the will to diet and exercise to get to 8% live in a gym
    Varies a lot person to person. 8% is very low though I was under the impression it was more around 12.
    Last edited by Savy; 08-18-2016 at 11:18 AM.
  38. #21863
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  39. #21864
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    -
    I thought I was gonna get slapped down in comedy form, but holy shit this guys makes the point I'm making, except in an amusing manner.

    Incidentally I laughed most when he said "England, Britain, whatever they call that fucking island". The contempt in his tone is wonderful.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  40. #21865
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    Being fat is not a good thing.
    To hold this opinion as a personal guideline is fine. To hold this opinion in some kind of moral standing is not. If someone is fat, that's their business. It's not your place to say that they are doing something bad... you can only say it's bad for you.

    The idea that it costs people money is just daft. If we're going down that road, then Maccies costs us money, because it's not fucking healthy. Has anyone seen the youtube clip of the timelapse of a big mac "decaying"? Shit is not right. Also, sugar costs us money. Well, white cane sugar does. Let's make everyone have brown sugar in their tea, just stop selling cane sugar. It's bad and it costs society money, so every time you have white sugar in your tea, you're being a cunt to everyone else. And of course, it assumes that if everyone was healthy, tax would be reduced. It wouldn't, more money would simply be wasted elsewhere because that's how government works; the people never see the benefits of positive economics.

    How big someone else is really is not my concern in the slightest, not unless it's someone I care about who's obese, and even then, one can only express concern rather than judgement.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  41. #21866
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I thought I was gonna get slapped down in comedy form, but holy shit this guys makes the point I'm making, except in an amusing manner.
    The defender of fat people implying that they're all ugly. Sickening.
  42. #21867
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    The defender of fat people implying that they're all ugly. Sickening.
    Even more sickening considering I'm not fat but I'm ugly.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  43. #21868
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    The "big macs don't decompose" theory is bullshit. If anything that's a testimony as to how clean McDonalds is. Get it dirty and keep it at room temperature and it will mold like anything.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  44. #21869
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Even more sickening considering I'm not fat but I'm ugly.
    omg same, let's be friends.
  45. #21870
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    I believe we have a duty to our fellow man.

    I believe we should each strive to be the best we can be.

    But we have enormous people going on TV and talking about how being 400 lbs is healthy, and that we need to check our thin privilege.

    Being fat is not a good thing. We should not celebrate it. But the day that it becomes "bad" to scold someone for being obese or for making their children obese is the day we give up on each other.
    Agreed, but I'll take it further. I think having gotten away from shaming has done a great deal of damage to society. Social corralling is integral to the health of a unit. A society going down the drain is one that worries too much about peoples' feelings.
  46. #21871
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Why is it that I have the gut of a 40-year old man, and have since I was in my late 20's, no matter how much I eat? I've spend weeks eating all whole foods, self prepared, lots of greens and veg and not lost my gut. Then I switch back to lazy eating and still no change.
    Sup wit dat?
    The typical non-extreme diet (among the subsets that are actually real diets instead of the person just thinking they are) loses ~1 pound of fat a week, and oftentimes hard-to-notice visceral fat goes first. Also, fat loss can go in spurts. It's weird. There's a phenomenon where cells fill with water to replace the fat then suddenly expel through urine periodically.
  47. #21872
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    A society going down the drain is one that worries too much about peoples' feelings.
    Yeah, society is going down the drain because we're too sensetive to one another's feelings. All those stabbings and shootings that happen, that's a consequence of not wanting to hurt someone's feelings. Yo, bitch, you hurt my feelings, so rather than hurt yours back, because I'm nice, I'm gonna cap you yo BLAM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  48. #21873
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    The typical non-extreme diet (among the subsets that are actually real diets instead of the person just thinking they are) loses ~1 pound of fat a week, and oftentimes hard-to-notice visceral fat goes first. Also, fat loss can go in spurts. It's weird. There's a phenomenon where cells fill with water to replace the fat then suddenly expel through urine periodically.


    I think it was about 2 months back when I decided to stop being fat. I was at 95kg, now I'm down to 86. I did a solid 2 weeks of calorie counting before I got bored of that, but in those weeks I lost the most. Now I'm simply checking calories on everything I buy. But yeah, I lost almost 10lbs in the first two weeks, then it plateaued for a long time and the last two weeks I've started losing again. I don't have an eating disorder so I don't want to equate that to what someone who's moribidly obese has to go through, but for me all it took was a very minute amount of self discipline. I'm still kinda fat, but I don't think the next 5-10kg's will be that much harder.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  49. #21874
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Yeah, society is going down the drain because we're too sensetive to one another's feelings. All those stabbings and shootings that happen, that's a consequence of not wanting to hurt someone's feelings. Yo, bitch, you hurt my feelings, so rather than hurt yours back, because I'm nice, I'm gonna cap you yo BLAM.
    They are, actually. I can help you understand if you would like.
  50. #21875
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    Quote Originally Posted by BWAAAHAHAHAHA
    Sanded to be smooth
    and painted to be beautiful
    like the toenails of a brawny woman.
    I was laughing too hard to hear all the funnies the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by BWAAAHAHAHAHA
    [...] according to what I know about guts.
  51. #21876
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post

    I think it was about 2 months back when I decided to stop being fat. I was at 95kg, now I'm down to 86. I did a solid 2 weeks of calorie counting before I got bored of that, but in those weeks I lost the most. Now I'm simply checking calories on everything I buy. But yeah, I lost almost 10lbs in the first two weeks, then it plateaued for a long time and the last two weeks I've started losing again. I don't have an eating disorder so I don't want to equate that to what someone who's moribidly obese has to go through, but for me all it took was a very minute amount of self discipline. I'm still kinda fat, but I don't think the next 5-10kg's will be that much harder.
    Great stuff.

    The 10 pounds lost in the first two weeks is majority expelled water that accompanies the dumped glycogen from the liver and muscles. Some is also having less food mass undergoing digestion. An extreme dieter certain can lose ~3.5 pounds of fat per week (at least I think it can get that high, but it would require a 1750 cal daily deficit as well as adequate protein and weight training).
  52. #21877
    Y'all in luck, I typed up some thing on how regressive taxation helps the poor and is gangster for the economy and how progressive taxation is garbage and hurts the poor the most, but I no posty because ain't nobody got time for that shit.
  53. #21878
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I was laughing too hard to hear all the funnies the first time.
    It's full of gold. Like the little heart sign with his hands to his "wife".
    I'm the king of bongo, baby I'm the king of bongo bong.
  54. #21879
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Great stuff.

    The 10 pounds lost in the first two weeks is majority expelled water that accompanies the dumped glycogen from the liver and muscles. Some is also having less food mass undergoing digestion. An extreme dieter certain can lose ~3.5 pounds of fat per week (at least I think it can get that high, but it would require a 1750 cal daily deficit as well as adequate protein and weight training).
    The guy whose video I posted lost an average of 3.8lbs per week over 6 months but that's from literally morbidly obese and doing a <1500kcal diet and doing excessive amounts of cardio.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  55. #21880
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    The guy whose video I posted lost an average of 3.8lbs per week over 6 months but that's from literally morbidly obese and doing a <1500kcal diet and doing excessive amounts of cardio.
    Yeah the bigger you are and the greater your deficit, the more weight you can lose. Note that I was referring to fat mass. Dieters typically lose a good deal in lean mass too. The best ways to avoid that are adequate protein intake, resistance training, and not going too steep of a caloric deficit (also maybe being in keto helps).
  56. #21881
    Isn't the absence of leptin a big factor in more drastic cases of obesity?

    And, as stated a few times in this thread, different people's bodies react differently to lifestyles, diets, etc. Of course if everyone was functioning at the top of their game in all aspects, we'd all look reasonably fit. But we don't live in a utopia -- pretty much everyone has some kind of problem (emotionally, mentally, physically, whatever). We don't go around shaming and judging people for being in some kind of slump. So why be so zero tolerance revolted when that slump manifests itself in fat?

    When it comes to the morbidly obese, another prominent factor is bad upbringing/lack of education. If you watch those "My 600 lb Life" shows, they're all in the south, esp Texas. My guy spent his formative years in Texas and said it's a real thing -- people there just straight up do not know how to eat. They stuff their faces with Chinese food and McDonalds and all that crap b/c they literally have no nutritional education. Couple that with someone who gains weight easily and you have a snowball effect of getting fatter, more depressed, eating more, repeat ad infinitum. Really sucks.

    Anyway, I think people are just viscerally disgusted by fatness, esp men who don't want to feel like someone's forcing them to get a boner over a fat chick. Which I understand, but still, that whole "man the harpoon" culture is just cruel. That's not a productive way to "shame" someone, and seems like it has less to do with concern for their health and more to do with wanting to dehumanize and hurt people. There's a difference between shaming and bullying.
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  57. #21882
    Quote Originally Posted by aubreymcfate View Post
    Isn't the absence of leptin a big factor in more drastic cases of obesity?
    There is variance between people regarding things like hormones, but the ranges in effects on weight are not vast and they do not account for the obesity problem. Even then, weight is still about net calories.

    People say all sorts of wrong things. A common one is 120 skinny girls saying "but I eat a lot; I'm just naturally skinny." No they don't and no they aren't. They average about 1800 calories/day. A 300 pound person eats ~4500 calories/day, and a 300 pound person with every thyroid and hormonal problem in the book maybe eats ~4000 calories/day.

    There has never been discovered a person who defies physics. People are fat when, and only when, they eat enough and are inactive enough to be fat.
  58. #21883
    This should not be confused with the fact that the fatter you are the easier it is to be fat. The body develops a stasis and doesn't want to change. You can test this out for yourself by overeating by ~1000 calories/day for two weeks and then trying to eat as little as you can and record how much you have to eat to feel satisfied. Then a different time undereat by ~1000 calories/day for two weeks and at the end eat as much as you can until you feel satisfied. In the first experiment, your satiation calories will be very high relative to normal and in the latter experiment they will be very low.
  59. #21884
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    There is variance between people regarding things like hormones, but the ranges in effects on weight are not vast and they do not account for the obesity problem. Even then, weight is still about net calories.

    People say all sorts of wrong things. A common one is 120 skinny girls saying "but I eat a lot; I'm just naturally skinny." No they don't and no they aren't. They average about 1800 calories/day. A 300 pound person eats ~4500 calories/day, and a 300 pound person with every thyroid and hormonal problem in the book maybe eats ~4000 calories/day.

    There has never been discovered a person who defies physics. People are fat when, and only when, they eat enough and are inactive enough to be fat.
    About a year ago I put on a bit of weight, when I realised this I cut down on the amount that I was eating. I later found out my thyroid was acting up and was probably the reason for this unexpected weight gain. At no point did I go massively overweight I think at my heaviest I weighed just over 200lb and I'm ~6 foot 4 and I'd usually weigh just like 185lb. So I'd agree that it's not really an excuse. It's fat people blaming other things that aren't really the problem. Not that that isn't incredibly common amongst society as a whole.
    Last edited by Savy; 08-18-2016 at 03:09 PM.
  60. #21885
    Yeah, it's not that I think it's out of people's control or that society shouldn't put emphasis on eating healthy portions and all that. My point is more about the singular harshness that fat people receive, seems more to do with people just being grossed out and using self-righteousness to justify that. The societal shaming of smokers seems more tempered in comparison.

    And yes, of course, I don't think being morbidly obese is just a natural state of being. If you're 300 lb you need to regulate that shit and not make excuses for yourself. But people, girls esp, get shit for being "fat" even if they're just chubby. Some girls are naturally kinda built like linebackers -- wtf can you do about that?

    And people's bodies are different, to an extent. My roommate isn't fat by any means but her build is way more stout than mine, and she's just naturally thicker. She's not going to expose her midriff 'cause she's got a lot more cushion there, whereas I feel comfortable wearing crop tops in the summer. There've been times when our diets are pretty similar and neither of us are exercising at all, and I'm still about 15 pounds lighter than her. I don't think anyone would look at her and think "fat" -- her build is pretty average. And she's not the type to give a shit about looking like a waify model, but other girls built like her might take the media standard of beauty way harder, to the detriment of their emotional and mental health.

    There's this FB page where guys photoshop plus size models to show them what they could look like if they were slimmer. These aren't 300 lb Tess Holliday-type models, they're just thicker girls. That shit is just stupid.
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  61. #21886
    Quote Originally Posted by aubreymcfate View Post
    My point is more about the singular harshness that fat people receive, seems more to do with people just being grossed out
    Not a bad reason.

    When did being ugly become a virtue? When somebody stinks, you tell him to take a shower. When somebody bitches too much, you tell him to stop bitching. When somebody starts cutting himself, you snatch the knife from his hand. Fat acceptance is social justice. You know my thoughts on that shit. Social justice and political Islam are neck and neck in the competition of being the most destructive forces in human history.

    My roommate isn't fat by any means but her build is way more stout than mine, and she's just naturally thicker. She's not going to expose her midriff 'cause she's got a lot more cushion there, whereas I feel comfortable wearing crop tops in the summer. There've been times when our diets are pretty similar and neither of us are exercising at all, and I'm still about 15 pounds lighter than her. I don't think anyone would look at her and think "fat" -- her build is pretty average.
    She eats more than you (or is less active). Calories are merely energy. Tissue is stored energy. Fat tissue beyond a point is storing of unused energy. The variance between different body types in their natural amounts of fat is ~+-4% body fat (~ between 8% and 12% body fat for men). This means for 200 pound athletes, some of them function best with 24 pounds of fat and others function best with 16 pounds (and others are in between). Both of these are very lean. The high end, even for women, doesn't give somebody a pudgy midriff.

    The differences in natural "thickness" has more to do with bone size and structure, and with muscle mass (this is the big one). There is significant variance in the amount of muscle people are capable of carrying. No amount of lifting will get most girls looking like Ronda Rousey; likewise, she'd probably have to starve herself and stop exercising altogether to not be buff (for a girl).
  62. #21887
    She eats more than you (or is less active). This has to be the case.
    This is way too simplified. Define "less active"... doing less shit, or burning less calories? Because it might burn more calories for one person to do one thing, and less calories for someone else to do the exact same thing. We don't all have the same metabolism.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  63. #21888
    What's more, people don't retain the same amount of nutrients from their food across the board. So one person can eat more than another, and just shit more instead of put more weight on.

    It really isn't as simple as you seem to think wuf.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  64. #21889
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    This is way too simplified. Define "less active"... doing less shit, or burning less calories? Because it might burn more calories for one person to do one thing, and less calories for someone else to do the exact same thing. We don't all have the same metabolism.
    I mean burning fewer calories through activity.

    Here's how the body burns calories:

    1) BMR (basal metabolic rate): this is all the basic keeps-me-alive stuff. It makes up the majority of calories burned.

    2) TEF (thermic effect of food): this is the calories burned by digesting food. Estimates are that depending on what people eat, they're somewhere between 10% and 25% of food calories burned (so if you eat nothing but 1000 calories of protein, you *really* only ate 750 calories).

    3) TEA (thermic effect of activity): this is what you burn from the normal activity things you do in a day (showering, walking, exercising, typing stuff on the internet). The sedentary burn maybe ~30% above BMR while training athletes typically do ~100% above.

    4) NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis): this is an x-factor, and is probably the real thing that accounts for certain people thinking they have high or low metabolisms. NEAT is things like shaking your leg while you sit at a desk. It is genetic (or more like it doesn't seem to be teachable). People with high NEAT tend to be leaner than those with low NEAT. Perhaps a more appropriate view of high/low NEAT is that as calories fluctuate, those with high NEAT tend to keep it high while those with low NEAT up-regulate or down-regulate based on calories.
  65. #21890
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post


    The differences in natural "thickness" has more to do with bone size and structure, and with muscle mass (this is the big one). There is significant variance in the amount of muscle people are capable of carrying. No amount of lifting will get most girls looking like Ronda Rousey; likewise, she'd probably have to starve herself and stop exercising altogether to not be buff (for a girl).
    That's what I'm saying -- bone size and structure naturally leads to some girls looking thicker or larger or w/e, and that's not something they can control. It doesn't matter how much weight she loses, her proportions aren't going to change. I am not saying that people who are considerably fat, to an obviously unhealthy degree, should be coddled and told they're healthy and fine.

    What did I say that implied that ugly is a virtue? No, I don't think mass bullying campaigns play a role in a healthy society. That doesn't mean I think it's a virtue to have a quality that incites bullying.
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  66. #21891
    Also, it's actually a great thing to have empathy and care about people's feelings (edit: and to be wise enough to discern when something else should take precedence over someone's feelings). It's a fucking terrible thing to mandate that via law. That's why you have Milo Yiannopoulos, who said himself that he was created by the regressive left.
    Last edited by aubreymcfate; 08-18-2016 at 04:40 PM.
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  67. #21892
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    What's more, people don't retain the same amount of nutrients from their food across the board. So one person can eat more than another, and just shit more instead of put more weight on.

    It really isn't as simple as you seem to think wuf.
    Among those who don't have certain diseases or aren't super elderly, this effect is tiny.
  68. #21893
    Ok, so when you say she either eats more or is less active, you've left yourself wiggle room by saying Aubrey could simply be shaking her leg more while sitting at the desk, thus burning more calories.

    Nice work.

    Farting burns calories, fwiw. That's probably why I'm so skinny.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  69. #21894
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Among those who don't have certain diseases or aren't super elderly, this effect is tiny.
    How the fuck do you even know this? I don't. I'm not a nutritionist, or a metabolicist, or a whatthefuckisthewordforanexpertinthisfieldist.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  70. #21895
    Quote Originally Posted by aubreymcfate View Post
    It doesn't matter how much weight she loses, her proportions aren't going to change.
    What do you mean? Losing fat is a change of body proportions.

    Everybody looks "thicker" than they "naturally" are when they're overweight.
  71. #21896
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Ok, so when you say she either eats more or is less active, you've left yourself wiggle room by saying Aubrey could simply be shaking her leg more while sitting at the desk, thus burning more calories.

    Nice work.

    Farting burns calories, fwiw. That's probably why I'm so skinny.
    You're being dense. Should I be worried.

    How the fuck do you even know this? I don't. I'm not a nutritionist, or a metabolicist, or a whatthefuckisthewordforanexpertinthisfieldist.
    I used to study diet and exercise extensively (albeit always as an amateur).
    Last edited by wufwugy; 08-18-2016 at 04:49 PM.
  72. #21897
    She's still going to be wider. Her bone structure is different. All the 5'7" girls in the world could be the same exact weight and we'd still vary wildly in appearance.
    Free your mind and your ass will follow.
  73. #21898
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    You're being dense. Should I be worried.
    Well I think you're being dense, because you seem to be assuming that two different people will retain the same calorie value from the same piece of cake, and then burn it off at the same rate. These differences are what I think are the primary reason some people are fatter than others depite similar lifestyles. I might be wrong, hell I probably am. It's way more complicated than that, there's gonna be tons more factors at play here. Which is why I don't just assume that fat people either eat more or do less than slimmer people.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  74. #21899
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Well I think you're being dense, because you seem to be assuming that two different people will retain the same calorie value from the same piece of cake, and then burn it off at the same rate. These differences are what I think are the primary reason some people are fatter than others depite similar lifestyles. I might be wrong, hell I probably am. It's way more complicated than that, there's gonna be tons more factors at play here. Which is why I don't just assume that fat people either eat more or do less than slimmer people.
    Do you also think you should tell us how you think the Sun revolves around the Earth and how Argentina is a country in North Africa?
  75. #21900
    Right, so when I argue that our bodies do not behave identically, you say I'm being as dense as a flat earther.

    Are you going to argue we all experience the same amount of hunger, too? Like, if two people of equal size, who both have identical diets, and identical lifestyles, will get hungry at the exact same time, and with the same amount of hunger pain.

    Because we're all fucking robots made out of wires and computers, deep down underneath all the messy veins and whatnot.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong

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