*** Official Politics Shitposting Thread ***

[Poopadoop]

Lol, every time you quote Fox you just prove again how biased and ignorant you really are.

You may be better able to articulate your ignorance than the average Fox News fan, but that doesn't make you any less ignorant.

Also, Trump.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Do you consider treating someone like a dangerous enemy as being "a different level of human dignity".

Depends on what you mean by that, and what they did.

Treating criminals like criminals is the whole purpose of the judicial system. I'm OK with that except in the cases where it screws up, which happens in any human system.
Treating people whom aren't accused of any crime by any legal agency as though they are criminals is a problem.

[BananaStand]

Lol, every time you quote Fox you just prove again how biased and ignorant you really are.

You may be better able to articulate your ignorance than the average Fox News fan, but that doesn't make you any less ignorant.

Also, Trump.

So I'll take this to mean that you're done trying to defend a religion that is in the running for "worst thing mankind has ever made", and that you've just fallen back on lame ad-hominem bullshit.

It must be easy as fuck to succeed in debates when you can just say "pffft Fox" or "pffft Breitbart" or "pfffft racist" whenever you encounter an idea you can't contend with. Who cares if it's Fox? Did the college take the posters down, or not? Is there something in that story that you find inaccurate? Is there an open question that you think might be due to the omission of a salient fact?

If so, say so. If not, then stop being such a god damn cunt.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Actually it's totally sequitur.

The bad actors have a motive for their bad actions. That motivation is responsible for their bad actions. The motivation is always the same, and always comes from the same ideology. So it's totally sequitur to look for the harmful motivation in a place where I have reason to believe that it may be found. That is....within the ideology that motivated the bad actions.

You haven't addressed my answer to your question.

Looking for bad people where bad things are happening is fine.
Assigning guilt to everyone whom has some characteristic in common with the bad people is where you've gone fully 'tarded.

Noting that not everyone whom follows that ideology is a bad person is all you need to realize that there is not a 1:1 correlation between the ideology and the problems caused by some people whom hold that ideology.


For all you like to criticize me as a scientist, you seem to lack understanding of the fundamental premise of science: When ANY evidence shows a contradiction to the thesis, we discard that thesis and revise.

[BananaStand]

Depends on what you mean by that, and what they did

Why do they have to DO something?

Isn't enough to say "that ideology explicitly states its intention to purge my culture from the face of the earth based on nothing more than my disinterest in converting to their religion"

[MadMojoMonkey]

It must be easy as fuck to succeed in debates when you can just say "pffft Fox" or "pffft Breitbart" or "pfffft racist" whenever you encounter an idea you can't contend with. Who cares if it's Fox? Did the college take the posters down, or not? Is there something in that story that you find inaccurate? Is there an open question that you think might be due to the omission of a salient fact?

If so, say so. If not, then stop being such a god damn cunt.

The hypocrisy in this post is off the charts.

Do you have any sense of your own self, man?

[MadMojoMonkey]

Why do they have to DO something?

Isn't enough to say "that ideology explicitly states its intention to purge my culture from the face of the earth based on nothing more than my disinterest in converting to their religion"

LOL. What?

Becuase if they didn't do anything, then they are not criminals.
If your goal is to create the most ridiculous persona on the internet, then that's a lofty goal, and I kinda appreciate the challenge, but seriously... why?

[BananaStand]

You know, this is really pathetic. I know you don't believe any of this. I know you're just trying to put me down and argue with me. You're doing a miserable job.

Assigning guilt to everyone whom has some characteristic in common with the bad people is where you've gone fully 'tarded.

"some characteristic in common". Do you know how dumb you sound when you say this? The common characteristic that they ALL share is a POSITIVELY MURDEROUS IDEOLOGY. That's way different than saying "they all hate ham". Get a god damn clue man.

Noting that not everyone whom follows that ideology is a bad person is all you need to realize that there is not a 1:1 correlation between the ideology and the problems caused by some people whom hold that ideology.

Why is that 1:1 correlation meaningful to you? Why is that the be-all, end-all border of right and wrong?

For all you like to criticize me as a scientist, you seem to lack understanding of the fundamental premise of science: When ANY evidence shows a contradiction to the thesis, we discard that thesis and revise.

This isn't a one of your roody poo chemistry set projects. This is actual life and death. And I don't need 100% corroborating evidence to conclude that an entire group of people is fucking toxic.

I mean, think logically for two god damn seconds man. Let's test out your "fundamental premise of science" and see if it holds up in this situation....

It is a fact that there were members of German battalions who conscientiously objected to killing Jews. That means that there is less than 100% corroborating evidence to conclude that "All Nazis want to kill Jews".

If you're a Jewish person in 1930's Poland and you hear that the Nazi's are coming to town.....are you worried?

[BananaStand]

The hypocrisy in this post is off the charts.

Do you have any sense of your own self, man?

Can you tell me exactly where and when I dismissed a a story's credibility based solely on the partisan reputation of it's publisher?

Has there been such an instance where I did NOT explicitly articulate what I felt was inaccurate, or misleading, or omitted?

Have I ever responded to an argument presented in this forum with "pfffft CNN, that's all bullshit" and nothing more?

Do you know what hypocrisy means?

[BananaStand]

Becuase if they didn't do anything, then they are not criminals.

Movicus goalpostium ad poopy

Since when are we talking about criminal prosecution?

I'm talking about treating people like an enemy based on their adherence to a toxic ideology whose stated goal is the destruction of me and my culture.

Why the fuck are you bringing the law into this?

[BananaStand]

A small portion of Catholic priests behaved badly. In response, the Catholic church has fallen all over itself to denounce the bad behavior, accept responsibility for it's own role in the tragedy, implement improvements, and take corrective action. The response hasn't been perfect, but it has been stupendously effective.

When a small portion of muslims behave badly, Imams worldwide, speaking for their congregations, say "Hey, don't look at me"

Does anyone really think those two religions are worthy of the same level of respect?

[MadMojoMonkey]

You know, this is really pathetic. I know you don't believe any of this. I know you're just trying to put me down and argue with me. You're doing a miserable job.

Yet another thing that you are perfectly incorrect about, but too wrapped up in your own ego to see.

[BananaStand]

Yet another thing that you are perfectly incorrect about, but too wrapped up in your own ego to see.

Whatever man. You keep chamging rhe subject, and going in ad hominem tangents all you want. Your lack of sensible responses to any of the points made just kinda shows me how flimsy your original argument really was.

[Poopadoop]

So I'll take this to mean that you're done trying to defend a religion that is in the running for "worst thing mankind has ever made", and that you've just fallen back on lame ad-hominem bullshit.

It must be easy as fuck to succeed in debates when you can just say "pffft Fox" or "pffft Breitbart" or "pfffft racist" whenever you encounter an idea you can't contend with. Who cares if it's Fox? Did the college take the posters down, or not? Is there something in that story that you find inaccurate? Is there an open question that you think might be due to the omission of a salient fact?

If so, say so. If not, then stop being such a god damn cunt.

OK I admit it. I'm simpistically putting you down for being a disciple of Fox News. Just like you simplistically put down the disciples of Mohammed.

[Poopadoop]

A small portion of Catholic priests behaved badly. In response, the Catholic church has fallen all over itself to denounce the bad behavior, accept responsibility for it's own role in the tragedy, implement improvements, and take corrective action.

When did this happen?

Mostly i keep hearing about how they covered up, denied,and pretended it never happened.

[BananaStand]

OK I admit it. I'm simpistically putting you down for being a disciple of Fox News. Just like you simplistically put down the disciples of Mohammed.

LOL, let me know when people deny women the right to drive, or show their face in public, or leave the house without a man because of Fox News.

[BananaStand]

When did this happen?

2002

Mostly i keep hearing about how they covered up, denied,and pretended it never happened.

That was before 2002.

[Poopadoop]

LOL, let me know when people deny women the right to drive, or show their face in public, or leave the house without a man because of Fox News.

No, they're not doing that because of FN. Their agenda is somewhat less subtle.

[Poopadoop]

2002


That was before 2002.

Did you get this from FN? Cause I keep telling u that's a shit propaganda network.

[Poopadoop]

When is Fox News or one of its associate propaganda distributors going to release a book about how great Trump's presidency is? 'cause i assume there must be right wing people who can read and write out there. All I keep seeing is books about how everything you think about the Agent Orange Presi. is true.

[Poopadoop]

Oh well, it's good, and not just because I want to motoboat Ana

[Poopadoop]

And incidentally, makes that black =low IQ argument that banana is so fond of

[Poopadoop]

here's what i think will happen:the Rs will get Kavanugh and as soon as that happens they'lll bail ship.

I know there's alternate theories that Obama will go to jail but lol w/e.

[BananaStand]

And incidentally, makes that black =low IQ argument that banana is so fond of

That's not an argument I'm "fond" of. And I never brought it up even once. I've only ever discussed it in response to Oskar's direct question on the subject.

That's some serious demagogue jujitsu you just tried (unsuccessfully) right there buddy.

[BananaStand]

When is Fox News or one of its associate propaganda distributors going to release a book about how great Trump's presidency is? 'cause i assume there must be right wing people who can read and write out there. All I keep seeing is books about how everything you think about the Agent Orange Presi. is true.

So fucking lazy.....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079RCNM99...ng=UTF8&btkr=1
https://www.amazon.com/Liars-Leakers...5RZ72ZYQSMW476
https://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-...5RZ72ZYQSMW476
https://www.amazon.com/Resistance-Fu...5RZ72ZYQSMW476

[MadMojoMonkey]

Whatever man. You keep chamging rhe subject, and going in ad hominem tangents all you want. Your lack of sensible responses to any of the points made just kinda shows me how flimsy your original argument really was.

You don't get to pick what topic I'm discussing. I do.

My topic of discussion has remained static for the past 2 days.

Here's a summary: If you blame someone for something that someone else did, you're wrong and you're acting like a jerk.

[BananaStand]

Here's a summary: If you blame someone for something that someone else did, you're wrong and you're acting like a jerk.

You're being intentionally glib because you're too stubborn to realize that your argument is pathetic and doesn't hold water.

If a man beats his wife in front of his two children every day, and then one day one of the kids goes to school and punches a kid he disagrees with......who's to blame? Are you gonna say "the other kid didn't punch anyone, so the problem can't be in the environment".

Really dude??? Give it up!!

1.6 Billion people all read the same book. The book says to stone adulterers. A massive proportion of that 1.6 billion people take that exactly literally. Are all of those people independently and separately irrational? Or does the book bear some of the fucking blame?

and it doesn't matter how many of those people have actually participated in the stoning of an adulterer. The fact that such a sentiment is so prevalent should be enough cause for concern. Are you really saying we should just let that simmer, or should we start actively trying to change hearts and minds?

And if we are to change hearts and minds...where does the effort need to come from? Should it come from me? The middle aged christian atheist white american? Or should it come from the leaders in Islam who care about the direction of the faith, and helping the faith to evolve so it can be compatible with modern society. Every other religion has done this. You don't see Christians banishing menstruating women because of Leviticus!

So where are the fucking voices in Islam huh?????

How did the muslim world react to 9/11??

[Jack Sawyer]

Why do they have to DO something?

Isn't enough to say "that ideology explicitly states its intention to purge my culture from the face of the earth based on nothing more than my disinterest in converting to their religion"

Very interesting how you put it.

Here:

“The missiles that kill us, American-made. The planes that kill us, American-made. The tanks … American-made. You are saying to me, where is America? America is the whole thing.”

US-made bomb kills 40 school children

Does this mean every American is a bad person? Should the whole group be purged from the face of the earth based on nothing more than what a portion of said group are responsible for?

His point is WRONG. You absolutely can hold the group responsible.

Very interesting right there. Remember that point. Let's continue

There are three kinds of muslims
A) the kind that bomb civilians
B) The kind that don't bomb civilians but think it's fine if someone else does
C) The kind that don't bomb civilians because they think it's wrong every single time.

No, the main kinds are: Sunni, Sh'ia and Kharjite.

The problem is Wahhabism. An ultraconservative, austere, fundamentalist, puritanical Islamic reform movement.

The further problem is the alliance of the Wahabbis (who do not like to be called that) to USA's Middle Eestern BFFs, the house of Saud.

And another problem was US/UK intervention intervention on behalf of their companies (capitalism, so get the govt to do your dirty work, hell yeah) in Iran in '53, overthrowing Mossadegh (who wanted to make the countries' natural resources a public good, much like in Norway today) and installing a puppet. A puppet who turned that country from an open and relatively progressive state to a "DEATH TO AMERICA" chanting state.

This in turn fueled a surge of nationalism which culminated in '79. The US-iran relations are fucked to this day.

But, the events in '79 in Iran also challenged Saudi Wahhabism in a number of ways on a number of fronts. It was a revolution of Shia, not Sunni, Islam and Wahhabism held that Shia were not truly Muslims. Nonetheless, its massive popularity in Iran and its overthrow of a pro-American secular monarchy generated enormous enthusiasm among pious Sunni, not just Shia Muslims around the world.

Khomeiny then preached that monarchy was against Islam and America was Islam's enemy, and called for the overthrow of Al-Saud family. This lead to Saudi Arabia – a kingdom allied with America – to "redouble their efforts to counter Iran and spread Wahhabism around the world", and reversed any moves by Saudi leaders to distance itself from Wahhabism or "soften" its ideology.

Remember 9/11? 15/19 hijackers were Saudis.

And yet the retaliation was to attack Afghanistan, and Iraq. Then Libya, then Syria, then Yemen.

I hold group B responsible for group A's actions. By tolerating bad actors, they enable their behavior. And that's how I feel it's appropriate to hold the entire group responsible for the actions of group A

Let's follow this logic. So, by enabling the Military Industrial Complex in destroying the whole Yemeni civilization by not giving a fuck that it's actually happening, should you Banana be held responsible as well?

[BananaStand]

Jack, you're equating the overt murderous-ness of an Islamic ideology to the sales of armaments to the military forces of a sovereign nation.

I'm not doing this with you.

An angry violent mob 300 million strong is out there with it's mind set on thoroughly exterminating the west. Are you trying to tell me that's perfectly fine? And that it should be allowed to continue to exist unchallenged? And that if any of those individuals manage to get their hands on a weapon, then whatever violence that ensues is the responsibility of the weapon manufacturer???????

This is a pathetic false equivalency. Frankly Im disappointed in you Jack

[Jack Sawyer]

Jack, you're equating the overt murderous-ness of an Islamic ideology to the sales of armaments to the military forces of a sovereign nation.

An islamic ideology. Oh, we have progress there.

I brought forth WHY wahhabi islam is such a problem nowadays, and not all of Islam and all muslims as some of you have been claiming. With facts and links to said facts.

I also clearly outlined why we got to where we got. You can clearly see the role of Team America world Police in there.

Details matter. Also nuance. Using broad strokes just because you do not understand something is just stupid.


Besides, where do you think all this beef comes from?

An angry violent mob 300 million strong is out there with it's mind set on thoroughly exterminating the west.

Why are they set up on angrily exterminating the west? Did the west have any play in that? Should we just ignore (recent) history?

Are you trying to tell me that's perfectly fine?

Is it fine selling weapons to sovereign nations knowing full well what they are going to do with them? Is it fine invading countries for natural resources then claiming to be holier than thou?

And that it should be allowed to continue to exist unchallenged?

The same applies to the other side.

And that if any of those individuals manage to get their hands on a weapon,

Oh well, god damn

then whatever violence that ensues is the responsibility of the weapon manufacturer???????

Golly gee wiz.

Also LOL with the subtle strawman. Remember how I said:

Let's follow this logic. So, by enabling the Military Industrial Complex in destroying the whole Yemeni civilization by not giving a fuck that it's actually happening, should you Banana be held responsible as well?

This is a pathetic false equivalency.

This was your point. I followed you own logic. It's frankly beautiful how you think your own logic is false equivalency when I use it, yet perfectly fine when you do


As a reminder, this is what you said:

I hold group B responsible for group A's actions. By tolerating bad actors, they enable their behavior. And that's how I feel it's appropriate to hold the entire group responsible for the actions of group A

Frankly Im disappointed in you Jack

Join the club. I have been dissapointed in you for a while now, since I realized you are not a rational actor. At first I didn't even give you play, as I thought you were spoon's troll.

However, you don't care about debating, about understanding another person's point; you only care about being right, and when given overwhelming evidence you are not, you just do the finger to the ears thing.

I'm not doing this with you.

What? Banana shutting the fuck up? Must be a new day

[Jack Sawyer]

"some characteristic in common". Do you know how dumb you sound when you say this? The common characteristic that they ALL share is a POSITIVELY MURDEROUS IDEOLOGY. That's way different than saying "they all hate ham". Get a god damn clue man.

I don't think you've ever heard of the Old Testament. So much violence and genocides in there. Christian fundamentalists (did you forget about them?) hold on to it like smeagol to his precious.

Fundamentalism is wrong, doesn't matter the religion.

It is a fact that there were members of German battalions who conscientiously objected to killing Jews. That means that there is less than 100% corroborating evidence to conclude that "All Nazis want to kill Jews".

Reductio ad Hitlerum

If you're a Jewish person in 1930's Poland and you hear that the Nazi's are coming to town.....are you worried?

Kind of like an innocent black man in NYC when he sees cops

He's done nothing wrong, yet he's worried as fuck

[Jack Sawyer]

Just appeared on my Youtube. Big brother is watching

[BananaStand]

What you seem to perceive as misbehavior by the CIA, is what I consider their exact purpose. That's why nobody seems to care about the non-Trump Russia stuff. Governments are supposed to meddle in in other government's elections. To whatever degree the Russians were successful, is our own fault.

and don't give me this sob story about how America has been so mean to the middle east. That's bunk. Whatever happened 50 years ago is over now. We got back on good terms with Japan faster than that.

[Jack Sawyer]

What you seem to perceive as misbehavior by the CIA, is what I consider their exact purpose. That's why nobody seems to care about the non-Trump Russia stuff. Governments are supposed to meddle in in other government's elections. To whatever degree the Russians were successful, is our own fault.

"You" were sowing.

and don't give me this sob story about how America has been so mean to the middle east. That's bunk. Whatever happened 50 years ago is over now.

Sob story? "You" are reaping what you sowed.

"You" systematically fucked up almost the entirety of the Middle East mostly because they had Black Gold (Bahrain was saved until now basically because there was no easy way to extract their signature resources, and their Black Gold was tougher to get to) and no real way to protect themselves. Country after country, invasion after invasion, instability, government toppling, famine, stealing resources, you name it. And yet now, about Muslims you claim that "the common characteristic that they ALL share is a POSITIVELY MURDEROUS IDEOLOGY" and therefore they, the collective "them", are the problem. Not the warmongering, the invasions, the actual warring, the backing of genocides, weapon proliferation and war profiteering, the ban lists, economic blockades, WMD lies etc.

Yemen used to be very beautiful. Now it looks like a fucking pile of rubble and dead bodies. And here I was thinking only those Daesh assholes destroy cultural heritage as a mission statement. This is shameful on a whole new scale. But it's just a footnote on what's going on globally.

We got back on good terms with Japan faster than that.

An actual world war. Way different from covertly toppling governments and installing the ones you want, destabilizing country after country in the process while claiming to be the untouchable World Police and only admitting you did so 50 years in the future. Again, details indicate why these are different things.

Also, rare earth metals were not as valuable back then as they are now. If they were, maybe perhaps today's scapegoats would have been the Shinto and the Buddhists as well for good measure instead of the Muslims



Newton's third law applies metaphorically as well, and you would have to add "unintended" and "unexpected" to it

[BananaStand]

I brought forth WHY wahhabi islam is such a problem nowadays, and not all of Islam and all muslims as some of you have been claiming. With facts and links to said facts.

it's a distinction without a difference. Also, I never said "all of Islam". That's you putting words in my mouth because you can't debate fairly. Pick a country, look at the polls. A massive massive massive percentage of muslims, regardless of brand, believe quite literally in some extraordinarily dangerous ideas.

I also clearly outlined why we got to where we got. You can clearly see the role of Team America world Police in there.

Oh, so America tinkered with Iran, so that means it's ok to enslave women, murder homosexuals, and take a backpack bomb onto Israeli public transit. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for clearing that up. Islamists don't believe these things out of spite for America Jack. If America picks winners in regional conflicts, then America has to live with the geopolitical results of those decisions. I don't see why that's even part of this debate.

Can you please explain how America's bad behavior makes Sharia law more popular?

Why are they set up on angrily exterminating the west?

It's in the manual. You see these guys with 8 wives and 40 kids. Do you think they just like big families? No. The idea is to overwhelm the world population with Islam, and over time, drive non-muslims to extinction. I realize that's not the most violent measure Islamists have taken. But it's still an attack against the west. However small, however slow, it's a step toward the Caliphate.

Did the west have any play in that? Should we just ignore (recent) history?

The idea of an all-Muslim planet was in play long before '79 sir.

Is it fine selling weapons to sovereign nations knowing full well what they are going to do with them? Is it fine invading countries for natural resources then claiming to be holier than thou?

Like I said, America picked sides, and has to live with the geopolitical consequences. If you wanna discuss that, start a thread. But if you wanna discuss it here, then please explain to me what America did to make muslims want to keep girls out of school and throw gay men off of buildings?

The same applies to the other side.

Ok fine. Challenge America. use freedom of speech and freedom of the press to disseminate information on America's geopolitical actions and hold it's leaders accountable in democratic elections. I'm still not seeing how anything America ever did justifies the enforced execution of apostates.

This was your point. I followed you own logic. It's frankly beautiful how you think your own logic is false equivalency when I use it, yet perfectly fine when you do

I think you misunderstand logic sir. When I said "whatever violence that ensues is the responsibility of the weapon manufacturer???????" that was not me expressing a point of view that I actually have. That was a mocking representation of what I believe to be your point of view. You can tell because I used like 7 question marks. Why would I do that if it was my own idea?

It's my belief that Islam should be held responsible for the bad behavior carried out in it's name. And I don't hold any other religion to the same standard because the bad behavior carried out in the names of those other religions is comparatively minuscule and usually doesn't involve killing.

I don't see the double standard. Because I also believe that every American has a responsibility hold the government accountable for any bad behavior carried out in America's name. If the government is doing bad things in Yemen, then elections are only 3 months away folks.

Join the club. I have been disappointing in you for a while now, since I realized you are not a rational actor.

I'm more rational than you're capable of realizing. That's not the same thing.

However, you don't care about debating,

Completely false. I'm eager to debate. Love it actually. Pick a topic, start a thread, and it can be just you and me debating anything you want. Ong can moderate. Everyone else here can observe, or we can ask the audience periodically to weigh in who's addressing facts, and who's demagoguing.

about understanding another person's point;

I understand your point completely. You're saying that the rage exhibited by jihadists in recent decades is the result of American pot-stirring. Fine. I'm not even going to dispute that. I am wondering why the hell it's relevant. The problem with Islam is that it's hateful, murderous, oppressive, intolerant, and frankly completely incompatible with western society, which isn't going anywhere. And that's been the case since well before the 1950's.

So I understand your point. However, I just think you'd be better off telling this stuff to a doorknob. There's a better chance the doorknob cares.

you only care about being right,

What the fuck man? I agree with you! America botched the Iran job. Fine. We're both right! I can't even agree with you without you having a hissy fit.

and when given overwhelming evidence you are not, you just do the finger to the ears thing.

What evidence? What am I not right about? I agree with you! Are we both right, or both wrong?

Now I'll pull my fingers out of my ears if you can tell me why it's ok to keep girls out of school, cuz the Crusades.

[BananaStand]

"You" systematically fucked up almost the entirety of the Middle East mostly because they had Black Gold (Bahrain was saved until now basically because there was no easy way to extract their signature resources, and their Black Gold was tougher to get to) and no real way to protect themselves. Country after country, invasion after invasion, instability, government toppling, famine, stealing resources, you name it. And yet now, about Muslims you claim that "the common characteristic that they ALL share is a POSITIVELY MURDEROUS IDEOLOGY" and therefore they, the collective "them", are the problem. Not the warmongering, the invasions, the actual warring, the backing of genocides, weapon proliferation and war profiteering, the ban lists, economic blockades, WMD lies etc.

And how does any of this explain burning a Jordanian alive in a cage and broadcasting the video on the internet?

You linked a story about a school bus bombing....did they do that to teach America a lesson?

Were Islamists pushing for a worldwide caliphate before 1776?

[Jack Sawyer]

And how does any of this explain burning a Jordanian alive in a cage and broadcasting the video on the internet?

Do you understand what an extremist is?

Hint: it's right there in the name. Burning people in cages sounds pretty extreme to me, don't you think?

You linked a story about a school bus bombing....did they do that to teach America a lesson?

With lockheed martin bombs. Not as a lesson, for profit.

Were Islamists pushing for a worldwide caliphate before 1776?

Not really, no.

[Poopadoop]

So fucking lazy.....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079RCNM99...ng=UTF8&btkr=1
https://www.amazon.com/Liars-Leakers...5RZ72ZYQSMW476
https://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-...5RZ72ZYQSMW476
https://www.amazon.com/Resistance-Fu...5RZ72ZYQSMW476

Lol those are hilarious.

It's like a Kool-Aid drinker's paradise. No wonder 1/3 of your country is so dumb.

[Poopadoop]

Lol, yeah everything is great.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/o...esistance.html

[oskar]

He doesn't sound happy about that.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...85664433070080

In other news:

[Poopadoop]

"National security" lol.

[BananaStand]

Vegas is giving odds on 18 people, and "the field". Right now the field (i.e. nobody important) is the favorite.

Bovada has Sessions as their favorite. This is barely meaningful as-is, but if it turns out that Sessions is the author, then I think you have to really just give up on the NY Times having credibility.

[BananaStand]

Lol, yeah everything is great.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/o...esistance.html

I'm not seeing much in this other than insults, and the odds-on favorite for the author of this is someone outside the top 20.

I do find it hilariously ironic that the sequence of events went something like this...

Rewind to Summer 2016

Dems: Trump is a business man, he wouldn't even know how to be President.
Reasonable People: Maybe, but there will be plenty of people around to advise him, and keep things steady
Dems: Nah, Trump's a dictator who won't take advice from anyone

Now fast forward to present day real life:

On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.

All this tells me is that Trump's presidency is going exactly as I expected it to.

[BananaStand]

In other news:

You massively misunderstand the problem that people have with the anthem protests. Despite how poorly some low IQ rednecks might articulate themselves, no one actually believes that there should be any kind of law, or government policy suppressing the free speech of anyone, including football players.

Players can kneel. No problem.

The problem is the double standard. You can throw the constitution out the window and de-platform Ben Shapiro at college campuses, but when an NFL owner says "keep your protest inside the locker room" he's being a tyrannical racist.

[BananaStand]

Vegas is paying 25 to 1 on a bet that says Trump wrote the editorial himself.

[MadMojoMonkey]

You're being intentionally glib because you're too stubborn to realize that your argument is pathetic and doesn't hold water.

Incorrect again.

Blaming one person for what someone else did is just stupid. If you can't accept that, I wonder how you'd feel if you were falsely accused of being a racist because you associate with racists. Oh wait, no... I don't wonder that, because you've repeatedly flipped out against being called a racist.

So there's one hypocrisy.

Also, I never said "all of Islam". That's you putting words in my mouth because you can't debate fairly.

wow.
I don't even have to search back beyond 1 page to find you making multiple blanket statements about Muslims without any distinction that you're talking about "some" Muslims. Same for your condemning Islam as an ideology without making any distinctions about which sect of Islam.

So is this entire conversation a misunderstanding?

'Cause if you're walking back your blanket statements about all Muslims and all of Islam, then I'll retract my prior disagreements.

[BananaStand]

if you're walking back your blanket statements about all Muslims and all of Islam, then I'll retract my prior disagreements.

I don't need to walk anything back. Thank you for your retraction.

That's a problem. It kinda debunks the idea that there are 'moderate' muslims outside of the west.

There are three kinds of muslims
A) the kind that bomb civilians
B) The kind that don't bomb civilians but think it's fine if someone else does
C) The kind that don't bomb civilians because they think it's wrong every single time.

Group B is by far the largest. Groups A and B combined represent a STAGGERING majority of muslims worldwide. Group C, outside of the US and Britain, are squarely in the minority.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I don't need to walk anything back. Thank you for your retraction.

You're welcome.

Now let's talk about how you constantly use inflammatory language which mischaracterizes your thoughts. Then you blame other people for being stupid when they respond to something you wrote.

Is this intentional?
Or are those IQ's you're so proud of not really helping you in this area?

[BananaStand]

Now let's talk about how you constantly use inflammatory language which mischaracterizes your thoughts. Then you blame other people for being stupid when they respond to something you wrote

I'm blaming whoever is at fault. Congratulations on being the only one here who rises above confirmation bias and accepts responsibility for his bad listening.

I really don't know why anything I've said is unclear, but anyone is welcome to ASK for clarification, any time they like. That doesn't seem to happen though. Everyone seems to want to find hidden meanings, or subtle contradictions, or whatever pathetic debate tactic they think will help them put me down. It's pathetic.

And then when I brush that off, I'm accused of 'doing the finger in the ear thing' and being stubborn, and being closed-minded and all that.

I WOULD LOVE FOR SOMEONE HERE TO CHANGE MY MIND ON SOMETHING

The problem with that is, contrary to your preferred beliefs, I don't consume partisan news sources from only one side, swallow it whole, and let it shape my entire set of feelings on any given issue. It's really fucking hard to change my mind, because my mind doesn't get made up easily. So if I've already covered all the bases, and arrived at my position, you're gonna have to bring a lot more than demagoguery and whining if you want to have a successful debate.

If you disagree with me, it's probably because you're missing a fact. All you have to do is ask me what it is, and I'll tell you. Or, if you believe I'm missing a fact, feel free to present it. But don't get pissy and whiny, and sore-loser if the fact you present is dumb.

For example

I'm saying Islam sucks because of the massive frequency of adherents that espouse terrible ideas. Some of those terrible ideas include the oppression of women, caliphate as an endgame, sharia law, and the various murderous doctrines targeting adulterers, homosexuals, apostates, and infidels.

Jack tried to tell me that I was missing a fact.....that Jimmy Carter was mean to Iran.

I say that's irrelevant to anything I've presented, and doesn't change the facts as I've outlined them above.

I'm still open to having my mind changed. I'm still willing to debate this.

But in order to move forward, I need someone to explain to me how overthrowing Saddam Hussein is the reason that 99% of Pakistan wants to live under Sharia law.

[Poopadoop]

I'm not seeing much in this other than insults, and the odds-on favorite for the author of this is someone outside the top 20.

That's interesting. What I see is further confirmation that Trump is an idiot and a child who has the whole WH shitting its pants more or less daily.

Reasonable People: Maybe, but there will be plenty of people around to advise him, and keep things steady

Things have hardly been "steady."

All this tells me is that Trump's presidency is going exactly as I expected it to.

Same. And it will end exactly as expected.

[Poopadoop]

You massively misunderstand the problem that people have with the anthem protests. Despite how poorly some low IQ rednecks might articulate themselves, no one actually believes that there should be any kind of law, or government policy suppressing the free speech of anyone, including football players.

Players can kneel. No problem.

The problem is the double standard. You can throw the constitution out the window and de-platform Ben Shapiro at college campuses, but when an NFL owner says "keep your protest inside the locker room" he's being a tyrannical racist.

Well, hardly anyone is putting it that way (double standard) except now you. Generally the arguments you hear are 'blah blah direspecting the troops blah blah hate America blah blah ungrateful'. And that's from the president.

As far as Ben Shapiro goes, a college can decide for itself who it wants on their campus or not. Because they're run by high IQ people who are generally liberal in outlook, it doesn't surprise me if some of them don't want him or his ilk coming around. No-one, however, is saying he can't put up videos on youtube popping off on whatever he wants. No-one is saying he has to salute the flag before he can speak on their campus. So, not really a relevant comparison.

[Poopadoop]

If you disagree with me, it's probably because you're missing a fact. All you have to do is ask me what it is, and I'll tell you.

How magnaminous of you.

[BananaStand]

Do you understand what an extremist is?

Yes. But your average muslim would say he's "just a guy". See the problem now?

Burning people in cages sounds pretty extreme to me

Me too. But not to your average Pakistani

Not as a lesson, for profit.

My question was....Did the Yemen government bomb a school bus to teach America a lesson?

You say no, they did it for profit.

Wut?

[BananaStand]

Trump has the whole WH shitting its pants more or less daily.

THAT WAS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF ELECTING HIM!!!!

[Poopadoop]

THAT WAS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF ELECTING HIM!!!!

Oh. Well, mission accomplished then. gg America.

[Poopadoop]

So let me get this straight: Americans hated America-as-it-was so much that they deliberately elected an incompetent, moronic, criminal manchild to lead the country? And the whole idea was just to ruffle everyone's feathers?

Seems a bit lame, sorry.

[BananaStand]

As far as Ben Shapiro goes, a college can decide for itself who it wants on their campus or not. Because they're run by high IQ people who are generally liberal in outlook, it doesn't surprise me if some of them don't want him or his ilk coming around.

Well I'm not talking about the college itself. But since you mentioned it, do you also then agree that NFL teams should have the right to decide for themselves if they want to allow personal activism during business hours?

If a college is under no obligation to provide a forum for political speech. Why is the NFL?

If you want an example of the double standard I'm talking about, check out the faggot at 4:14

https://youtu.be/vj5JXrpwsZs

[BananaStand]

So let me get this straight: Americans hated America-as-it-was so much that they deliberately elected an incompetent, moronic, criminal manchild to lead the country? And the whole idea was just to ruffle everyone's feathers?

pretty much. Except for the parts about being incompetent, moronic, criminal manchild.

What do you think "drain the swamp" means?

[Poopadoop]

Well I'm not talking about the college itself. But since you mentioned it, do you also then agree that NFL teams should have the right to decide for themselves if they want to allow personal activism during business hours?

If a college is under no obligation to provide a forum for political speech. Why is the NFL?

It's not a forum, they're not taking any time away from their owners to give a speech. I mean at least get the basic facts right.

[Poopadoop]

pretty much. Except for the parts about being incompetent, moronic, criminal manchild.

What do you think "drain the swamp" means?

I know what drain the swamp is SUPPOSED to mean. The fact that it isn't happening, but rather quite the opposite, I find amusing.

[Poopadoop]

incompetent, moronic, criminal manchild.

That's how the people closest to him all decribe him. I suppose you think that's all fake news though.

[BananaStand]

It's not a forum, they're not taking any time away from their owners to give a speech. I mean at least get the basic facts right.

They're offending the customers. What are you not getting?

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'm blaming whoever is at fault.

If only.

Congratulations on being the only one here who rises above confirmation bias and accepts responsibility for his bad listening.

Nope. If you are choosing words which do not convey your intended meaning, that's on you.
It is not your listener's fault when you misrepresent yourself.

E.g. when you say "Islam is a faulty ideology" and you don't indicate that you are not talking about all of Islam, but only certain sects, then that's your miscommunication, not your listener's.

[MadMojoMonkey]

faggot

That just gave my banhammer a use.

1 day of peace, all.

[Poopadoop]

They're offending the customers. What are you not getting?

Did you even read what I said?

If you had argued that by taking a knee, they're costing their employees money, and by that logic their employees have the right to punish or fire them, then I'd agree.

But what you said was they're using the anthem as a forum for political speech. So obviously you still haven't got a dictionary yet, 'cause if you did you would know what the word 'forum' means.

[MadMojoMonkey]

He'll have to get back to you on that, since he's earned himself a 1 day vacation from FTR.

[Savy]

He'll have to get back to you on that, since he's earned himself a 1 day vacation from FTR.

Fire MMM.

THIS IS CENSORSHIP!

[MadMojoMonkey]

I don't think there's any mechanism in FTR's administration to even reprimand a mod on FTR, let alone fire them (it's not like I get paid for this*).

That said. If I find myself a moderator of a forum whom disagrees with the majority of posters on that forum as to what the forum "should" allow, then I will step aside.

I'm not being petty. I'm saying FTR has changed, and if it has changed beyond a certain point, then I'm no longer interested in modding.


*Technically I can be paid if I submit hours, but practically that amounts to maybe 15 minutes a month and it's not really worth any of our time for that paperwork.

[Savy]

*Technically I can be paid if I submit hours, but practically that amounts to maybe 15 minutes a month and it's not really worth any of our time for that paperwork.

I'll get on the fake accounts, etc you sort everything out we'll split the money 50/50?

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'll get on the fake accounts, etc you sort everything out we'll split the money 50/50?

Hell yeah. That extra $5 a month is what's keeping me from a early retirement.

I figure it takes about a minute to ban someone, if I stretch it out really long. Given a rush, I could probably ban a few people a minute. How fast can you create fake accounts?

Wait... why are we scamming Eric? It's not like he's made any money off of FTR in years, anyway.
Besides, he's a really easy-going guy to talk to on the phone. He even paid me for hours I'd billed when I later found out that there was a huge short-cut I could have taken and finished the calculations he wanted in much less time. I felt so guilty after that that I basically did a few hours of pro-bono work to pay him back.

On 2nd thought... let's not scam Eric. He's probably in the bottom 10% of people whom deserve to be scammed.

[Savy]

Ok well let me know when you find someone we can scam and we'll discuss it.

[Jack Sawyer]

Yes. But your average muslim would say he's "just a guy". See the problem now?

Says who?

Me too. But not to your average Pakistani

Again, says who? Where did you get this info?

My question was....Did the Yemen government bomb a school bus to teach America a lesson?

You say no, they did it for profit.

Wut?

Mmm, the Yemeni government did not bomb any schoolbuses. It was the US backed Saudi-UAE coalition who did

With a Lockheed Martin bomb.

This, among many more shenanigans.

#GetYoFactsStraight

[Jack Sawyer]

That just gave my banhammer a use.

1 day of peace, all.

Oh snap, he got dwarfmanned

[CoccoBill]

What do you think "drain the swamp" means?

I'd say to Trump it means nothing, he said himself he hated the term when his campaign managers came up with, but it was popular so he stuck with it.

To his supporters it likely means a) getting money and lobbying out of elections and/or b) getting corrupt career politicians out of Washington. Neither of which his record shows are his goals.

[oskar]

https://youtu.be/87imHoBsGQ8?t=23m56s