*** Official Politics Shitposting Thread ***

[Jack Sawyer]

Try again, rereading my reply. Note the bolded part which was bolded for some reason

Oh I see

You read what I wrote, then twisted it and invented some totally different meaning.

Nice trick....

Yeah, I should have added that you should probably have had to employ your high IQ for the rereading as well, I forgot to tho

Actually I did but what I actually forgot to do was to click submit and then I went BOC on a beach here, so hai

[OngBonga]

Have they been living there enough to have an opinion on what goes on around there?

Do they qualify for citizenship? That's when I would argue it is appropriate for an immigrant to be allowed to vote... when they qualify for a passport and become a citizen by law. Until then, you're a guest, and guests don't get to vote in elections.

One problem with handing the vote to anyone who happens to be in the country during an election is it is open to abuse. If I were running for office, I could have a pro-immigration policy, and try to get as many immigrants into the country as possible before the election. Is this in the best interests of the people I'm supposed to represent? Of course not, but do I give a shit? Well yeah, I would give a shit, which is why I'd make a shit politician.

[Savy]

Do they qualify for citizenship? That's when I would argue it is appropriate for an immigrant to be allowed to vote... when they qualify for a passport and become a citizen by law. Until then, you're a guest, and guests don't get to vote in elections.

One problem with handing the vote to anyone who happens to be in the country during an election is it is open to abuse. If I were running for office, I could have a pro-immigration policy, and try to get as many immigrants into the country as possible before the election. Is this in the best interests of the people I'm supposed to represent? Of course not, but do I give a shit? Well yeah, I would give a shit, which is why I'd make a shit politician.

No they aren't citizens.

The idea is that some schools have huge proportions of non-citizen children and as a reslult they have absolutely no say in the education of their children. And getting parents more involved in schooling is generally a great idea.

Not that I feel particularly strongly either way. Under the current system (at least to my understanding, which is limited) I'd argue that they probably should have a say because what they can vote on is still very limited (it isn't changing the school system) however the issue is more why are these situations happening to begin with?

If they can vote on a Finnish system I'm against (as if they can BS) just to annoy JS mostly.

[Jack Sawyer]

No they aren't citizens.

The idea is that some schools have huge proportions of non-citizen children and as a reslult they have absolutely no say in the education of their children. And getting parents more involved in schooling is generally a great idea.

Not that I feel particularly strongly either way. Under the current system (at least to my understanding, which is limited) I'd argue that they probably should have a say because what they can vote on is still very limited (it isn't changing the school system) however the issue is more why are these situations happening to begin with?

This is the important part, and you are right IMO

If they can vote on a Finnish system I'm against (as if they can BS) just to annoy JS mostly.

That's Banana's strawman which you are against

[MadMojoMonkey]

The nice thing is that open borders is not a problem, and does not induce or invite terrorism.

Most terrorism in America is perpetuated by Americans: school shootings, Waco wackos, unabomber, etc.
The irrational fear that immigrants have a negative effect on Americans' lives is what it is.

We had open borders with Canada and Mexico for - like, forever, man - and no downward spiral of terrorism.

I hear a lot of people pissing and moaning about immigrants, but not one of the people I've spoken to about it has any reason to think that they have been denied any rights or priveleges because some immigrant bamboozled the system.

Yes, illegal immigrants are criminals, but so is every person that speeds on a public road. Not all criminals are doing harm, is all I'm saying. I'm not arguing to be soft on crime. I may be arguing that we have a lot of stupid laws whose intent is to suppress freedom and not help it thrive. That's a big problem when we can talk the freedom talk, but not walk the walk, so to speak.


The other nice thing is that this notion that people should be treated as less-than-equal people because they are not citizens is purely hateful and MOST people in the world are not full of hate like that. The vocal minority of haters ain't going to get much accomplished.

[OngBonga]

...this notion that people should be treated as less-than-equal people...

What do you mean when you say "less-than-equal"? Do you mean access to social security and the right to vote? Things like that?

Open borders, instant citizenship, what could possibly go wrong?

Equality is a crock of shit. We are not all equal. If I move to USA, I expect to be treated differently to someone who was born in USA, at least until I've earned the right to be called a citizen. And I do that by not breaking the law, by working, and by integrating.

You don't just instantly integrate, so you don't just instantly get the same rights as citizens. I don't know how any sane person can even indulge the thought of allowing non-citizens to vote.

If that's not what you're getting at, ignore me, as you were. I'm sure someone here was bleating about this though.

[oskar]

You're talking about two completely different things. The humanitarian position is that immigrants, legal or illegal should have basic human rights and the right to due process. How would you even determine who is who without due process?
You on the other hand are parroting a ridiculous lie that millions of illegal immigrants are voting in the US election, which is not based on facts, but it is something Trump has repeated hundreds of times. Trump keeps lying because his lies are very popular with racist retards. If you don't want to sound like a racist retard, fact check your trump tweets before you state them as fact.
On top of that, MMM didn't say anything even related to that, nor has anyone else that I'm aware of. I'm starting to hate this word but you trump tards are putting up more strawmen than the average pumpkin farm.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/24/u...e-process.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n-from-parents

I'll calm my rhetoric when Trump is impeached and you guys can act right again. But it would feel disingenuous to keep this shit politically correct. They are literally abducting babies at the border and you guys are acting like this is somehow justified. Go fuck yourself.

[Poopadoop]

I'll calm my rhetoric when Trump is impeached and you guys can act right again. But it would feel disingenuous to keep this shit politically correct. They are literally abducting babies at the border and you guys are acting like this is somehow justified. Go fuck yourself.

It is remarkable how 30% of the US and 10% of the rest of the world will defend Trump no matter what he and his evil administration does. And I know evil is a strong word but I really can't find a better way of describing it.

Literally nothing he's doing benefits the dumb yokels who form a majority of his base. Not the separation of families at the border, not the idiotic trade war with the entire world, not the insulting of his allies and ball-licking of Putin and KJU, not the tax cuts for the rich, not the dismantling of the education system and the EPA, not the constant hiring and firing and resigning of cabinet members, not the constant scandals with porn stars, not the arrests of former campaign officials, not the constant shouting about witch hunts and Hillary's emails, not the constant bragging and lying about success, not the constant flip-flopping on his message every other day. None of it is in the least bit constructive. Not one iota.

But his supporters can live with all that because once in a while they get to see him screaming threats at someone on twitter like a tinfoil hat lunatic who's been taken off his meds and they get an orgasm from his showing "strength for the USA", 'cause apparently that's as sophisticated as their world view gets.

Seriously, if your main reason for supporting Trump is because he pisses off libruls and LGBTs and anyone else who you don't identify with, then it just shows you're not actually "for" anything positive, you're just against anyone who isn't a miserable sob like you are.

[OngBonga]

I'm not quoting Trump tweets, I'm referring to comments itt. And quite frankly I don't care if I sound like a racist idiot. I'm not one. I'm not going to get butthurt over casual use of powerful words. I'm not racist because I don't believe my race is superior to another. I know what racism actually means.

Trump isn't getting impeached, and wishing he does is like wishing democracy gets fucked up the arse to suit your political agenda. If Trump gets impeached, shit gets worse. You do realise that, don't you? The way to remove Trump is by ballot. If that doesn't happen, respect democracy.

Go fuck yourself.

No, you.

[OngBonga]

It is remarkable how 30% of the US and 10% of the rest of the world will defend Trump no matter what he and his evil administration does.

There are probably at least 100 more regimes in the world more evil than USA. Except most of those don't get voted in.

[Poopadoop]

Trump isn't getting impeached, and wishing he does is like wishing democracy gets fucked up the arse to suit your political agenda. If Trump gets impeached, shit gets worse. You do realise that, don't you? The way to remove Trump is by ballot. If that doesn't happen, respect democracy.

So when Nixon was forced to resign because he was a criminal, that was a witch hunt too, not democracy?

So basically you've taken the line that Trump's innocent of any wrongdoing and nothing will convince you otherwise. Well done, you're officially a trumptard.

[OngBonga]

They are literally abducting babies at the border and you guys are acting like this is somehow justified.

Immigrants are literally raping babies in our cities, but saying that is politically incorrect. It's cool to use the phrase "literally abducting" to refer to the detention of illegal immigrants, though. I was "literally abducted" by the UK government when they put me in care, against my will, as a 7 y/o boy. Can I have some of those tears please? I'm a victim, too.

Here's what I think about families getting seperated at borders... that's the risk you're taking when you engage on a dangerous and illegal mission to gain entry to another country. If it sounds like I lack empathy, well I find it emotionally draining attempting to have empathy for the 4 or 5 billion people who are worse off than me. All I know is there isn't room for everyone on this island I reside in, and I can understand why other people around the world have their concerns too. It's not racism, it's fear of society falling apart at the seams.

And it's happening.

[Poopadoop]

There are probably at least 100 more regimes in the world more evil than USA.

So only being middling in the list of evil countries is an ok standard now?

Except most of those don't get voted in.[/QUOTE]

It'd be nice if being voted in could keep an adminstration from being evil.

[OngBonga]

So when Nixon was forced to resign because he was a criminal, that was a witch hunt too, not democracy?

So basically you've taken the line that Trump's innocent of any wrongdoing and nothing will convince you otherwise. Well done, you're officially a trumptard.

Ok, rather than arguing about hypotheticals, how about we wait until they try to impeach him, and then we'll discuss whether he's a criminal who isn't fit for office, or it's a politically motivated witchhunt.

So basically you've taken the line that Trump's innocent of any wrongdoing and nothing will convince you otherwise. Well done, you're officially a trumptard.

"nothing will convince you otherwise"

Now why on earth do you think that?

[Poopadoop]

Immigrants are literally raping babies in our cities, but saying that is politically incorrect.

Is this really an epidemic? And how many native-born people are raping babies? You have to show it's something to do with being an immigrant that makes someone go around raping babies.

It's cool to use the phrase "literally abducting" to refer to the detention of illegal immigrants, though. I was "literally abducted" by the UK government when they put me in care, against my will, as a 7 y/o boy. Can I have some of those tears please? I'm a victim, too.

Do you think they did that because they thought it was in your best interests or because they had some ulterior motive?

Here's what I think about families getting seperated at borders... that's the risk you're taking when you engage on a dangerous and illegal mission to gain entry to another country. If it sounds like I lack empathy, well I find it emotionally draining attempting to have empathy for the 4 or 5 billion people who are worse off than me. All I know is there isn't room for everyone on this island I reside in, and I can understand why other people around the world have their concerns too. It's not racism, it's fear of society falling apart at the seams.

And it's happening.

That's the kind of retarded thinking that makes right-wing populism such a hit these days.

[OngBonga]

It'd be nice if being voted in could keep an adminstration from being evil.

Yeah well it makes a government legitimate. Evil? That's subjective as fuck. Some people think my smoking habit is evil. They're free to think what the fuck they like, just as I'm free to give no fucks.

Most governments are evil. The world is shit.

[OngBonga]

That's the kind of retarded thinking that makes right-wing populism such a hit these days.

This is the kind of denial that allows it to happen.

[Poopadoop]

Ok, rather than arguing about hypotheticals, how about we wait until they try to impeach him, and then we'll discuss whether he's a criminal who isn't fit for office, or it's a politically motivated witchhunt.



"nothing will convince you otherwise"

Now why on earth do you think that?

I believe you would probably change your mind if he confessed or was caught red-handed; since neither of those appear likely I think you'll probably join the rest of his fans in thinking it was a conspiracy. Not saying such a conspiracy is impossible, just that if you knew enough about Trump you'd be inclined to think he's extremely greasy, and on the balance of likelihood, he's probably done several things that are worthy of impeachment.

[Poopadoop]

This is the kind of denial that allows it to happen.

This is pretty retarded too.

How does denying a falsehood encourage a belief in a falsehood? Or even if what you read in the Daily Mirror were true, how would me not believing it make you believe it more?

[Poopadoop]

Yeah well it makes a government legitimate. Evil? That's subjective as fuck. Some people think my smoking habit is evil. They're free to think what the fuck they like, just as I'm free to give no fucks.

Most governments are evil. The world is shit.

It's a typical shrug; "evil is everywhere so we may as well accept it."

How about trying to make the world less evil, or at least wanting it to be less evil? Why just accept it?

[OngBonga]

I believe you would probably change your mind if he confessed or was caught red-handed;

As in, if there was actual evidence, rather than hearsay and media reports? Yeah, exactly.

[Poopadoop]

As in, if there was actual evidence, rather than hearsay and media reports? Yeah, exactly.

Do you not find it at least suspicious that a number of his campaign associates have already been indicted? At best it shows he didn't vet his campaign team very well (or at all); at worst (and probably more likely) he's in it up to his neck.

[OngBonga]

This is pretty retarded too.

How does denying a falsehood encourage a belief in a falsehood? Or even if what you read in the Daily Mirror were true, how would me not believing it make you believe it more?

Haha Daily Mirror. You're really sucked into the identity politics game, aren't you?

How about trying to make the world less evil, or at least wanting it to be less evil? Why just accept it?

Fine. Start with the biggest losers out there, ie the non-democratic fuckers who kill and imprison their political opponents? Turkey is a MUCH more evil country than USA. As is Saudi Arabi. I assume you were protesting when their respective leaders visited the UK recently?

I don't see truly evil shit happening in USA. I see some shit that makes me think "really", but then I also think "gald that's not my problem" because I have absolutely no idea how to deal with the problem of immigrants, which is why it's hard for me to critisise someone who is trying to deal with it. At least he's trying to stop it, rather than encouraging it.

[OngBonga]

Do you not find it at least suspicious that a number of his campaign associates have already been indicted? At best it shows he didn't vet his campaign team very well (or at all); at worst (and probably more likely) he's in it up to his neck.

Indicted? By whom? I find it very difficult to take such indictments seriously.

[Savy]

I blame the liberals for making it so you can keep adult immigrants in inhumane conditions but not their babies. Not sure how that's Trump's fault.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-44902381

[Poopadoop]

Haha Daily Mirror. You're really sucked into the identity politics game, aren't you?

Sorry if I misidintified your source of misinformation. Just seemed like the kind of hysterical argument you'd read in the DM.

Fine. Start with the biggest losers out there, ie the non-democratic fuckers who kill and imprison their political opponents? Turkey is a MUCH more evil country than USA. As is Saudi Arabi. I assume you were protesting when their respective leaders visited the UK recently?

You gotta pick your fights.

Turkey isn't an important ally to us, and S.A. isn't an ally at all. And those two historically haven't been much better countries than they are now, but the US has. There is more hope for the US than for them. At least in the US their citizens will see the protests.

[Poopadoop]

Indicted? By whom? I find it very difficult to take such indictments seriously.

By an independent Rep counsel appointed by the Rep Attorney General,who himself was appointed by the Rep president himself. I'd be more suspicious if they didn't indict anyone.

[OngBonga]

Daily Mail now. You did it again. You assume everyone who opposes your position reads rags. You just put an entire demographic in one little box.

Like I say, sucked in.

[Poopadoop]

Start with the biggest losers out there, ie the non-democratic fuckers who kill and imprison their political opponents? Turkey is a MUCH more evil country than USA. As is Saudi Arabi. .

Don't forget Russia.

But you're ok with Trump kowtowing to Putin and not confronting him about the election meddling. You're sure there's a very innocent or even a positive explanation for that.

Go to the optometrist mate you are going blind.

[Poopadoop]

Daily Mail now. You did it again. You assume everyone who opposes your position reads rags. You just put an entire demographic in one little box.

Like I say, sucked in.

Well name your source then. What credible news source told you there was a serious widespread problem with immigrant baby rapists in the UK? Presumably you didn't just hear it from a friend of a friend if you're letting that idea paint your view on immigration.

[OngBonga]

Turkey isn't an important ally to us, and S.A. isn't an ally at all.

Incorrect. Saudi Arabia is an important ally, we sell weapons to them. Furthermore, they are allied to Israel, against the common enemy of Iran.

Turkey are an important strategical ally wrt Syria.

This is why we let them get away with being cunts. How many times do you head Erdogan's name compared to Trump's? Or how about Sheik Allah bin-Fuckhead? Who do you suppose is the bigger cunt?

[OngBonga]

Don't forget Russia.

But you're ok with Trump kowtowing to Putin and not confronting him about the election meddling. You're sure there's a very innocent or even a positive explanation for that.

Go to the optometrist mate you are going blind.

Hating on Putin makes a tiny bit more sense than hating on Trump. I mean at least Putin does supress opposition.

[Poopadoop]

Incorrect. Saudi Arabia is an important ally, we sell weapons to them. Furthermore, they are allied to Israel, against the common enemy of Iran.

Turkey are an important strategical ally wrt Syria.

This is why we let them get away with being cunts. How many times do you head Erdogan's name compared to Trump's? Or how about Sheik Allah bin-Fuckhead? Who do you suppose is the bigger cunt?

Neither of them is anywhere near as important to us as the USA was my point.

[Poopadoop]

Hating on Putin makes a tiny bit more sense than hating on Trump.

Glad we agree on something at least.

[OngBonga]

Neither of them is anywhere near as important to us as the USA was my point.

Ok, so we agree that USA is an important ally, more so than the cunts. Does that mean we should do our utmost to insult their democratically elected leader?

[Poopadoop]

Ok, so we agree that USA is an important ally, more so than the cunts. Does that mean we should do our utmost to insult their democratically elected leader?

It was a spontaneous thing, it wasn't like the gov't organised it or anything. So what were they supposed to do, beat up the protesters?

You can't stop people from protesting, but a president can stop himself from being a dick of a guest in their ally's country.

[OngBonga]

The Mayor of London was promoting the baby balloon. I mean we can pretend that it was spontaneous if we want to pretend we're all fucking stupid, but it blatantly wasn't. Furthermore, everyone who attended just made themselves look like hypocrites... with the notable exception of those who did happen to protest the hosting of Turk and Saudi officials. Respect to those guys. But the 99%... it was a day for selfies.

He was a dick of a guest? Oh dear, he insulted Terry's Brexit plan. Well fuck me dead, I'm sorry I was more bothered about despotic leaders gracing our shores.

[Savy]

Tbf one of the best things about the UK is that we do shit like the baby balloon. As much as I'm basically a Trump fan over here as I don't think he's Satan I would never want to see things like that not happening.

[oskar]

Could you link me the baby rape case. I'm not much for anecdotes, but I couldn't even find a single case. If fear of rape is something you use to form your opinion, you should have statistics to back that up.
But even if said statistics actually turn out to be worrying, it's wouldn't logically follow that you have to separate families at the border. That seems like a separate issue.

[OngBonga]

Google it oskar.

[Jack Sawyer]

Well name your source then. What credible news source told you there was a serious widespread problem with immigrant baby rapists in the UK? Presumably you didn't just hear it from a friend of a friend if you're letting that idea paint your view on immigration.

Could you link me the baby rape case. I'm not much for anecdotes, but I couldn't even find a single case. If fear of rape is something you use to form your opinion, you should have statistics to back that up.
But even if said statistics actually turn out to be worrying, it's wouldn't logically follow that you have to separate families at the border. That seems like a separate issue.

Google it oskar.

Is that a deflection, ong? You could just make it easy for all and name your source, right? As apparently they can't find it

[Jack Sawyer]

Since google indeed failed me, I had to turn to searching breitbart. This is the closest thing to "immigrant baby rape" as a search result I could find

By none other than Ann Coulter

https://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...rape-epidemic/

[OngBonga]

Deflection, laziness, call it what you like. I really can't be fucked to go through my twitter feed and browsing history to satisify poop's and oskar's demands for sources. If you want to argue that I'm talking out of my arse, google it, and tell me that you found nothing. I'll wait.

[OngBonga]

Oh I didn't read your second post. Well glad google failed you. Try adding "Rotherham" to your search.

[oskar]

So to clarify: because there was a child abuse ring in the UK, lead by UK citizens of pakistani origin that was struck down 11 years ago, the practice of removing mexican children from their parents at the US border with clearly no plan to reunify them is justified, because... ?
Why? What's the connection there?

[Jack Sawyer]

So to clarify: because there was a child abuse ring in the UK, lead by UK citizens of pakistani origin that was struck down 11 years ago, the practice of removing mexican children from their parents at the US border with clearly no plan to reunify them is justified, because... ?
Why? What's the connection there?

Imigrunts

[OngBonga]

Right, that's Rotherham done. Now try Sweden. Then after that, Germany. Take a look how enriched their societies have become thanks to imigrunts.

I should point out, it's a certain type of immigrant I have a problem with. ie, the ones who are so blindly deluded by batshit religion that they feel local law does not apply to them, rather they asnwer to he who cannot be drawn.

Despising a religion is not racism. Islam is not a fucking race. It's a cult. If we were talking about banning scientologists because they are fucking idiots who have nothing in common with normal values, then no one would give a fuck. Because because most Muslims happen to be of a dark skin colour, it's suddenly a matter of race rather than religion.

Fuck that. I'm not being forced into accpeting crazy just because morons are playing the race card. Islam is incompatible with our values. If you can't see that, then you have your eyes shut.

[oskar]

According to the 2010 census, 0,003% of mexicans are muslims while 1% of the US population are muslims. So mexican immigrants effectively reduce the percentage of muslims in the US. Wanna try again?

[OngBonga]

You know, I've been on benefits for large portions of my life, and not once have I ever seen a Chinese person in the jobcentre.

The thing with Mexicans is they are economic migrants, not refugess or war migrants. It's perfectly acceptable to refuse entry to an economic migrant if the host nation feels it is not in their economic interests. Is Mexico at war? It's a bit fucking lawless, and I'd prefer to live in USA than Mexico. But it's not a matter of life or death for the majority of those who attempt to cross, it's a matter of preference. I'd rather live in New Zealand than UK. My life would be a great deal more satisfying. I even speak the same language as they do. And I don't believe in sky fairies. But I'm useless to them, so as far as they're concerned, I can stay the fuck here in UK And the crazy thing is... I think that is absolutely fair enough.

I haven't got a problem with any individual who intends to settle in a new country by means of genuine integration... being a law abiding citizen, working and speaking the host language. That applies to Mexicans, Muslims, anyone. The problem with Muslims is they don't integrate. Do Mexicans? I wouldn't really know, but I would imagine they do more so than Muslims. Are they of net economic benefit to USA? Again I wouldn't know, that's a matter for the President.It seems he thinks not.

But again, I'll say this... being anti-immigration is NOT racism. Most people who are anti-immigration are so on economic and social grounds. You won't hear many people in the UK telling Chinese people to fuck off back to where they came from, and the reason is because they integrate and become part of our society. That's the key. If Muslims came here and, idk, spoke English and abandoned Sharia, and perhaps kept their opinions about how immoral their hosts are to themselves, then we might not have a problem.

idk if Mexicans are a problem for USA, but I certainly respect the right of the USA to tell economic migrants to fuck off.

[Poopadoop]

I heard this story about this famous British entertainer who singlehandedly raped lots of babies over decades and his employers and the authorities covered it up and why British people are being allowed to live here I have no idea.

[OngBonga]

Yeah you have a valid point, we should deport the likes of Jimmy Savile, too. Anyone know a country that wants our baby rapers?

The establishment are worse than the Muzz. Let's talk about percentages. I'm not going to do any googling, I'll just pull a league table of baby rapers out of my arse...
1. British Royalty, politicians, and celebrities
2. Middle Eastern & African immigrants of a religious nature (aka Muzz)
3. Aston Villa fans
4. Working class white British people
5. East Asian immigrants

I'd quite happily set fire to anyone who willingly covered up for Savile.

Anyway, I appreciate my trolling is cutting close to the bone here, so let's point out that you're missing a rather large point. Actually two. You're assuming I'm saying ban all Muzz because there's a higher percentage of baby rapers amongst them than in normal society. I'm not. I'm saying don't let them in because they have utter contempt for our way of life and have absolutely no intention of integrating. I'm pointing at things like Rotherham, Sweden, Germany and all the other places infested with dreadful crime as a consequence of "cultural enrichment" as examples of what happens to societies when immigration gets out of hand. What happens is we get the worst of the third worlders, the ones who abandon their families and nations, and crime goes through the roof. The evidence is abundant, but anyone who dares point to it is accused of racism. No wonder they feel invinisble.

The other point you're missing is you can't deport British people to somewhere other than Britain. Sadly, gone are the days where we can dump our convicts on random islands. What you can do though is refuse to allow in a group of people who hold western values in contempt. What's the problem there?

[OngBonga]

Dear Pakistan,

I am a white English citizen who wishes to move to Islamabad. Unfortunately I am unable to speak whatever language you speak. Urdu? It's a guess, and I don't even care if I'm right. I have no desire to learn another language. I have no qualifications, and no desire to work. I would like to live a comfortable life on your benefits system, while living in a white-only community, where I feel safe from the threat of racism from your terrible citizens. I want access to a Christian church, and any locals who discriminate against us should be treated with severity. I also expect your police force to use adequate resources to carefully monitor social media for hate crimes against people like me.

I reserve the right to explode myself in a busy market to punish your sinner citizens for their wicked ways.

I look forward to being granted immediate citizenship, with full voting rights.

Sincerely,
Ong.

[OngBonga]

ps, I'm still bound by UK law, not Pakistani law.

[MadMojoMonkey]

What's the problem there?

That you're conflating desperate people exhibiting criminal discontent for the cultural norms with immigrants coming from a different culture refusing to adopt your own. You can't even pretend you don't have ethnic centers of culture in the UK. Those centers have adopted the minimal UK culture to coexist, while keeping as much of their "outside" culture as they can. This belies that it's not a matter of adopting culture at all. It's a matter of desperate people doing desperate things.

The notion that child rape is a consequence of desperation is ridiculous. Pedophilia is a brain disorder. Rape is a violent crime. It's certainly possible that someone was driven from their home town because they were a confirmed child rapist, but that can't be any kind of norm for any human society.

EDIT: I don't know of any case of pedophilia which was a transient period in a person's life. They're either a sick fuck who is attracted to children or they're not. Feel free to lay me some evidence of a "reformed" pedo. What could possibly count as proof that someone doesn't fantasize about being a pedo even if they suppress those urges from becoming criminal actions? Maybe not too scientific of me to discount evidence before it's been shown, but this is psychology. Dafuq can be proved in psychology?

[oskar]

...

To say you're veering off topic is an insult to the average object veering off. How does any of that relate to the child separation policy? All of the things you say could be true. I don't challenge them because they're irrelevant. Why do mexicans crossing the border - legally or illegally - because this is happening pre-trial, have their children abducted. And I'm not using emotive language. They take their children 0-17 years of age, in many cases don't have records which child was taken from which adult, and have no plans on reuniting them. How can you possibly defend this?
So far nothing you said relates to this policy directly or could be in any way used to justify it. If I'm overlooking something, feel free to point it out.

[Poopadoop]

How does any of that relate to the child separation policy?

I believe his defense was that separating children from their parents was an effective deterrent to being a non-white-non-US-citizen on US soil.

He then developed the defense that this was acceptable policy with the idea that people from a different culture/religion/whatever who emigrate are usually depraved criminals looking for fresh victims to satisfy their lust for babies. Also, something something about last night in Sweden, and no-go zones in Berlin where immigrants stab and rape any white person they come across.

Ong, maybe if you left your village in the Midlands once in a while and saw the world with your own eyes you might not have such a two-dimensionally retarded view of things.

[Jack Sawyer]

Yeah you have a valid point, we should deport the likes of Jimmy Savile, too. Anyone know a country that wants our baby rapers?

How about jailing him?

[BananaStand]

And I'm not using emotive language

You sure 'bout that?

Why do mexicans crossing the border - legally or illegally - because this is happening pre-trial, have their children abducted.

^WTF?

Dude....why so much demagogue??? "Abducted"? You really wanna use that word? You REALLY think it's appropriate?

If so, then either A) You're hopelessly misinformed about vocabulary, or B) you lack the cognitive abilities to engage in a logical, fact-based, discussion on border policy. Which is it?

Your rhetoric clearly suggests that child-separation was a policy created purposefully for the purpose of enforcing the border. You seem to think it's done as punishment, or outright cruelty towards illegal immigrants. Like "Ha ha ha, we caught you crossing our border, now suffer the ultimate price and say good bye to your kids!!"

Criminals don't get to take their kids to jail with them.

that's NEVER been the case for any crime, ever. If you get caught stealing, or selling drugs, or vandalizing property...you go to jail. And your kids don't get to come with you. You either find someone to take them for you, or the state puts them in foster-care. That's how it's always worked, for every criminal ever. Immigrant and citizens alike.

Illegal border crossers had TWENTY FUCKING DAYS to call Uncle Jose and ask him to drive up to Juarez and pick up little Miguel. That's almost three friggen weeks to make arrangements for their kids. Turn on an episode of COPS sometime and watch them arrest people. Tell me how many times the criminal was allowed to say "Hey, I know you wanna take me to jail, but can we stall this for three weeks? I've got a kid"

Stop calling it a "child separation policy". That's bullshit demagoguery.

America has had decades now of Democratic leadership that refused to enforce the border. Trump got elected because he promised to enforce the border. Enforcing the border means that illegal immigrants aren't allowed to cross, and they get punished for trying.

Do you have a BETTER idea Oskar? I'm seriously asking. What policy would you suggest that effectively enforces the border? How would you keep the criminals and economic immigrants (as Ong described) out of the country? How would you disincentivize a crossing attempt?

Do you really think that border patrol should round people up and then say "Ok, everyone with kids is free to go. Better luck next time"

Do you see how INSANE that would be? Do you not see how you would be making a perverse and cruel incentive for people to take kids on this dangerous trek across the friggen desert?

Maybe you could say that border enforcement could have been a little "tighter" administratively. Maybe they could have kept better records for reunification purposes. Oh well, they didn't. And when it became a problem, Trump took action and fixed it. If you think that took too long, you're probably right. Congress should have fixed it immediately. Except the Democrats, led by Chuck Schumer decided to shrug and say "nah, not our problem".

After that, Trump issued an Executive Order and now families aren't separated anymore. You really can't ask for more than that. No one has bitched about family separations for almost two months now Oskar. yet here you are still ranting about "abductions".

have we talked about what demagoguery means???

I'm waiting now to hear YOUR incredibly effective and entirely humane border enforcement policy. What is it?

[BananaStand]

The nice thing is that open borders is not a problem,

Aaahh, I see you've discovered hallucinogenic mushrooms. This should be fun...

and does not induce or invite terrorism.

What if the terrorists are trying to get it in without inducement or invitation? Do us all a favor and research how many attempted entries by known or suspected terrorists that the DHS has stopped.

It's a fucking lot.

Most terrorism in America is perpetuated by Americans

Wrong. Objectively, and provably wrong. Why did you say this? What are you even talking about?

school shootings

Not terrorism

Waco wackos

not terrorism

, unabomber,

Barely terrorism

etc.

Etc?? Is this supposed to imply that there is a massive litany of similar terrorist incidents? I find that highly suspect since two of your three examples are more than two decades old.

The irrational fear that immigrants have a negative effect on Americans' lives is what it is.

It's not irrational. The depressed wages that result from immigrant labor, as well as the cost of education and medicaid for their anchor-babies is REAL. That's a completely RATIONAL assessment of a real, tangible negative effect on American's lives.

We had open borders with Canada and Mexico for - like, forever, man - and no downward spiral of terrorism.

Drastic mischaracterization. You couldn't just waltz into Canada. You still had to go through customs/border security. You still had to be searched. You still had to provide justification for being there. You could still be turned away. And it was still very very much illegal to scramble through the woods to get around the check-point.

BTW, how did the 9/11 hijackers get into the US?

I hear a lot of people pissing and moaning about immigrants, but not one of the people I've spoken to about it has any reason to think that they have been denied any rights or priveleges because some immigrant bamboozled the system.

Dude, what show are you watching? There are almost 12 million illegal immigrants in America, maybe more. Millions of them have citizen children now. So illegal immigration is responsible for something like 5-8% of our total population. They represent an even larger portion of our poor population. There is no possible way that is a net benefit for our economy. Just no chance. The math doesn't work.

You don't need a foil hat to see that the Democrat party is encouraging immigration and the growth of the low-class because that's where they can get votes. It has nothing to do with human compassion, it's all about political power. That's why they want to give illegal immigrants the right to vote. It's starting small, but make no mistake about the larger agenda.

I find it hard to believe that "none of the people you've spoken to" care about depressed wages or skyrocketing welfare costs.

Yes, illegal immigrants are criminals, but so is every person that speeds on a public road

Are speeders sentenced with commensurate punishment? Or do cops just see kids in the car and say "Oh, I can't take your license, you have to get these kids to McDonalds!" You're making a false equivalency here Monkey that is actually pretty sad. Please tell me you're smarter than this.

Not all criminals are doing harm, is all I'm saying

FALSE. Statutes are created to declare certain behavior criminal BECAUSE IT CAUSES HARM!! Again...depressed wages; skyrocketing welfare costs. Do you know what "harm" means?

I'm not arguing to be soft on crime.

Yeah you are.

The other nice thing is that this notion that people should be treated as less-than-equal people because they are not citizens is purely hateful and MOST people in the world are not full of hate like that. The vocal minority of haters ain't going to get much accomplished

Wrong again. How do you get through life when you're so incapable of thinking rationally?

First of all, who is being treated like "less than equal"? What crime of inequality is being perpetrated by enforcing a border? You might have a point if white immigrants were just being ushered in while brown people were locked in holding cells and shipped back to Guadalajara.

That's not what's happening. No one is being denied due process. Everyone has 20 days to make arrangements for their kids.

Where is the inequality?

It's not hateful to confer certain rights and privileges on your own citizens. Otherwise, why have a country?

[OngBonga]

Wait, you mean to say when these illegals get picked up, they have 20 days to make arrangements for their children to be returned home? Why don't I read this in the MSM?

This is why I don't immediately jump on the omfg bandwagon whenever Trump is accused of doing something that people don't like. I know the MSM are spoonfeeding me selected information while ignoring relevant information. Anything that shifts the blame back on to the people who are responsible for these children, that's not fitting the agenda.

And my point remains... there is MUCH worse shit going on around the world, but the people who sit on top of that massive hill of morality seem to be obsessed with only one person... a democratically elected leader.

Let me know when Clinton turns up in a ditch. After the party, I'll probably start to be concerned about the implications of it all.

[oskar]

On the cost argument: An estimated 3000 children have been separated from their parents at their border. Trumps retarded trade war necessitated a 12 billion dollar bailout for american farmers. If he didn't start a completely unnecessary and unjustified trade war with your allies, you could have bought every one of those children and their families 4 Bughatti Veyrons. The monetary cost is negligible.

The 20 day timeline is something that used to happen. The reason of course is that you can't detain people indefinitely without a fair trial based on human rights conventions. This is something that was ignored. The reunification was then court ordered after a massive public outcry, but they weren't able to meet it because they didn't even document which child belonged to which guardian, or they lost track of children completely.

When you go to jail, you have a reasonable expectations that the valuables you had on you when you got in will be returned to you when you get out. To have your child permanently taken from you for a misdemeanor charge (not even a conviction) can't possibly be defensible.
And no, when you are detained for a misdemeanor, they don't give your child up for adoption for you to never see it again. This is an absolutely retarded analogy.

Super easy question: if a canadian hikes over the US border with a child and they have no passports on them, should the border patrol apprehend them, give the child up for adoption and send the adult back to canada with no information on where his child is and no plans to ever reunite them?

[MadMojoMonkey]

Ong, maybe if you left your village in the Midlands once in a while and saw the world with your own eyes you might not have such a two-dimensionally retarded view of things.

I don't agree with the tone, but I do agree with the sentiment.
Ethnocentrism is strong, here. It's almost exclusively due to people being afraid of other people.
Other people whom they've never met.
Other people whom they've never met whom are somehow less trustworthy than the criminals in their own families.

It's lazy hating based on thinly veiled fear.

Put your big kid pants on and stop living in fear, you scaredy cats.

[BananaStand]

Super easy question: if a canadian hikes over the US border with a child and they have no passports on them, should the border patrol apprehend them, give the child up for adoption and send the adult back to canada with no information on where his child is and no plans to ever reunite them?

nice strawman.

super easy amswer though. If the guy committed a crime, he should be charged, tried, and sentenced under the law. simple.

as for his kid, it should be the same as when any other criminal is apprehended with a kid (it happens hundreds of times a day you know)

in this case, ship the kid back to canada, and make it canadas problem. If there are reunification troubles after that....blame Canada

Fuck canada

[oskar]

So why should this be handled differently when it concerns canadians rather than mexicans?

[BananaStand]

Its not

[oskar]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1022468634390589440

[oskar]

Its not

Yeah, it is... and should be according to your suggestion. The children are not being sent back to mexico, they are either held in detainment camps indefinitely or given up for adoption even if they crossed the border accompanied by a guardian or parent.

[OngBonga]

Every time I leave my village, I remember how much of a shithole the world is, and retreat back to the countryside where I can smoke spliffs and drink tea in blissful peace.

You guys seem to forget that I've been living in a shitty large town for the best part of two decades, and the UK's second city is my home city. I've only been hiding in the countryside for six months. So don't assume that I've lived under a rock for my entire life.

And who's living in fear? I'm not. Perhaps I would be if I lived in London, but fortunately I live in a place where the only things I need to fear are cancer from my increased spliff smoking and the headaches from my increased tea drinking.

[oskar]

Btw, banana, in just a couple of posts you have misused the words demagogue and strawman, and you are shaky on the difference between is and should. I strongly question how fruitful this argument can possibly be.
I have suggested this to wuf and spoon already: I am completely fine with arguing against the notion that brown people are inferior, which seems to be your unspoken axiom. It would truthfully be a more challenging discussion than this nonsense.

[oskar]

And who's living in fear? I'm not. Perhaps I would be if I lived in London, but fortunately I live in a place where the only things I need to fear are cancer from my increased spliff smoking and the headaches from my increased tea drinking.

You're right, every time I've been to London I had to constantly look over my shoulder for the muslim invasion to steal my culture. scary stuff

[MadMojoMonkey]

And who's living in fear? I'm not.

You recently argued that immigrants are baby-rapists, clearly and plainly expressing a fear of babies being raped by immigrants.

[OngBonga]

Btw, banana, in just a couple of posts you have misused the words demagogue and strawman, and you are shaky on the difference between is and should. I strongly question how fruitful this argument can possibly be.
I have suggested this to wuf and spoon already: I am completely fine with arguing against the notion that brown people are inferior, which seems to be your unspoken axiom. It would truthfully be a more challenging discussion than this nonsense.

+10 points for getting the word "strawman" into this paragraph.

You're right, every time I've been to London I had to constantly look over my shoulder for the muslim invasion to steal my culture. scary stuff

Haha said by someone who's been to Hyde Park but not Finsbury Park.

You recently argued that immigrants are baby-rapists, clearly and plainly expressing a fear of babies being raped by immigrants.

Fear and disgust are not the same thing. I'm not afraid of baby rapers, because I'm not a baby.

[Poopadoop]

Yeah, it is... and should be according to your suggestion. The children are not being sent back to mexico, they are either held in detainment camps indefinitely or given up for adoption even if they crossed the border accompanied by a guardian or parent.

I've never heard of a Canadian getting picked up for a misdemeanor offense in the U.S. and having their kids taken from them. Pretty sure that would make the news if it did happen.

On a related note, I was coming back to Canada on a flight from the U.S. one time pre-9/11. I show my ticket and Canadian passport to the guy, and he says "Where are you heading?" I say "Calgary." He says "Do you have a green card?" It took me a second to process the sheer stupidity of the question, but finally I said "I'm a Canadian going to Canada. Why would I need a green card? We don't even have green cards in Canada." And he looks confused for a second, then lets me go.

Another time post 9/11 I was driving across the border from NY state to Ontario. I get to the little ten feet of no mans land at the border and the *U.S.* customs guy stops me and starts asking me questions about how long I'm going for, where I'm going, etc.. I'm thinking "Buddy I'm leaving your fucking country. Your job is to ask people questions when they enter, not when they leave. What, are you going to tell me I can't leave if you don't like my answers? Fuck off."

Stuff like this makes me think border security is a job done by people who failed out of mall cop academy. No wonder they can't keep track of whose babies they've arrested.

[Poopadoop]

Haha said by someone who's been to Hyde Park but not Finsbury Park.

There's lots of places in the U.K. I wouldn't go to given a choice, including the pub down the street. Plenty of them are occupied by white people (including the pub down the street).

[OngBonga]

Perhaps we should stop letting white idiots into the country.