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  1. #151
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    I played some chess on NYE, I really suck when I'm drunk. Much more so than other people. I wonder why that is.
    I don't play chess when I'm drunk. What's the point? I play chess because I want to play well and feel smug.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  2. #152
    BREAKING: the left's god endorses Trump!!!

    https://electrek.co/2017/01/06/tesla...on-renewables/
  3. #153
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 01-08-2017 at 06:07 PM.
  4. #154
    That hacking thing turned out to be total nonsense huh? Using a program a nation-state wouldn't get caught dead with and stuff. A+ Democrats at getting caught in their corruption then obfuscating by planting a hoax that takes eyes off their corruption.
  5. #155
    Looking forward to when Chieftess Fibbing Goof gets stomped in 2020

  6. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    That hacking thing turned out to be total nonsense huh? Using a program a nation-state wouldn't get caught dead with and stuff. A+ Democrats at getting caught in their corruption then obfuscating by planting a hoax that takes eyes off their corruption.
    Yup, sounds pretty dodgy to me. I think the last time every intelligence agency agreed on something it was Saddam having WMD.

    I also think MSNBC is turning into the left's Fox News. I guess they deserve one.

    Still, Trump sounded kind of dumb there.
  7. #157
    He always sounds dumb.
  8. #158
    loooooollllllllllllll

  9. #159
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    There's as little unclarity about russian involvement in the dem hacks as there is in the Israeli and US involvement in the Iran nuclear facility hacks (stuxnet).
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  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    There's as little unclarity about russian involvement in the dem hacks as there is in the Israeli and US involvement in the Iran nuclear facility hacks (stuxnet).
    Really? Because they tell you so? Or because you've seen the evidence, and if so, please share.
  11. #161
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    No, I analyzed the logs myself. How else than "they told you so" do you know anything? Show me proof that US and Israel made Stuxnet. Obviously there isn't any publicly available proof, which means there isn't any to the contrary either.
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  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    No, I analyzed the logs myself. How else than "they told you so" do you know anything?
    That's the problem with this kind of evidence - intelligence agencies can give us their answers without having to tell us what they're based on.

    I withhold judgment on the whole Russian hacking thing for that reason. Maybe true, maybe not.
  13. #163
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    Where did this "so it was all a hoax" stuff come from? Let me guess just from Trump. Surely everyone can decide for themselves who's more reliable, him or the whole intelligence community. And yes, it is entirely possible that it's a huge conspiracy where they all colluded to mislead the public, but on whose orders? Hillary's? Comey's? I'd ask Mr William of Ockham.
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  14. #164
    The Trump crowd doesn't necessarily think it's a hoax. I think it could have come from Russia; the problem is that it hasn't been demonstrated. The evidence released by the government is paltry. There are ways this could more reasonably be a false flag (though I don't think it is). I'm seeing lots of people who know this stuff better than me say that a 400 pound hacker from Zaire could have left the same trail that they're saying now confirms it was always and only Russia.

    The other thing the Trump crowd says is "and?". So, Putin outsmarted a dummy Podesta in a private entity (DNC is not government) and merely released to the public what he found? And these findings are a bunch of shady shit by the DNC and Putin is more or less acting as whistleblower (a thing the pre-Trump left used to extol)? And all evidence points to the election itself not being fiddled with at any level (except possible pro-Democrat possible cheating in Detroit) And, yet, the narrative is a colossus of "RUSSIA BAD!"?
  15. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    The Trump crowd doesn't necessarily think it's a hoax. I think it could have come from Russia; the problem is that it hasn't been demonstrated. The evidence released by the government is paltry. There are ways this could more reasonably be a false flag (though I don't think it is). I'm seeing lots of people who know this stuff better than me say that a 400 pound hacker from Zaire could have left the same trail that they're saying now confirms it was always and only Russia.
    I think the "Trump crowd" (whoever that is) needs to stop with that line of thinking. They're being trolled, and should wake up and realize it. While everything you said there may be true, the other side already knows it, and chose to ignore it before even starting this discussion. The goal of the discussion has nothing to do with determining the source, assigning blame, or retaliating.

    Every second you spend saying "maybe it wasn't Russia" is just you being trolled into saying things that make you look bad. Regardless of how true or logical the things you are saying are....they are contradictory to the established public narrative. And when you defy common knowledge, you look dumb. The "trump crowd" is being trolled into looking dumb. They should stop falling for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    The other thing the Trump crowd says is "and?".
    They should stick to this....and only this. Let the other side respond, and expose their flimsy, distracting arguments.

    The only reason this "RUSSIA BAD" narrative came about, was to weaken Trump's ability to govern. It's a desperate tantrum from the left seeking to undermine trump's authority, strip him of his mandate, and cast a cloud of doubt over his victory that makes him ineffective as a leader. Every second you spend feeding that narrative, even with logical arguments, just serves their purpose.

    Let's not kid ourselves. Our own CIA has meddled in more than a few foreign elections. To believe that other countries aren't trying to do the same thing to us, is naive. Podesta and the DNC made themselves vulnerable and got phished. That's on them.

    The real question is...why? What was the motive for the hacking?

    Intelligence sources disagree about this. There is no evidence of motive, and any conclusion is entirely speculative. There is a prominent argument that says Trump was helped by the hacking, so the motive of the hacking must have been to help Trump. That's a simple, easy to follow narrative that anyone can buy into, especially when they were just stunned by the election results and are desperate for an explanation.

    A more thoughtful conclusion looks at the timing of the hacks, and notices that it corresponds to a time when Trump's 'hot mic' comments were destroying his poll numbers. In that light, it seems somewhat likely that the motivation of the hack was to impair the trust and reputation of an incoming President Clinton, not propel a Trump victory. I don't think Putin predicted a Trump win, nor do I think he would have looked at the polls and thought that hacking Podesta might swing the election. I don't think Putin would espouse an idea so silly.

    With all that said, I don't think many american's votes were swayed by anything exposed in the hack. On the other hand, the massive media coverage of the information exposed certainly distracted from other campaign narratives. Every second spend talking about hacks detracts from time that could be spent talking about issues. Or.....more practically speaking.....every second spent talking about hacks takes away from time that could be spent bashing Trump. So in that sense, the hacking probably did sway a few votes

    So yeah..."RUSSIA BAD" should be the narrative. They meddled in an election they had no business meddling in. They did it for no other reason than propaganda against what they believed as an incoming president. That's really really bad.

    The problem is....that "RUSSIA BAD" narrative could have been used in August. How come Obama didnt' sanction russia and kick the diplomats out five months ago?

    The answer is, no one really cared. No one thought that the leaks would sway the election, and no one was really surprised that Putin was capable of dirty tricks. Par for the course really.

    What irks me, is that the other side has now manufactured outrage over this hacking as a means to weaken and de-legitimize Trump. They are doing exactly what Russia tried to do to Hillary. If it was bad then, it's bad now.
  16. #166


    The funny thing is that I'm actually super stoked about the potential alliance between America and Russia (and maybe even UK and France) regarding Islamism.

    The media straight up does not cover how much terrible crime is caused by rapefugees. It's almost every day there's another story in Sweden or Germany about Islamists on welfare raping some native women, and then usually it gets swept under the rug and the women get called bigots. Given how bad it is in Sweden now, don't be surprised if within a few hundred years it becomes yet another of the nations that Islam invades and eradicates all non-Islam. Happened in Syria, happened in Iraq, happened in Turkey, happened in many other places, and it's on path in Europe.

    Oops sorry this was only 1/3rd a shitpost
  17. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post

    Every second you spend saying "maybe it wasn't Russia" is just you being trolled into saying things that make you look bad.
    To people speaking truth, we tend to not care so much about looking bad.

    The evidence that it was Russia is shit. Good on those of us who say so.
  18. #168
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    Us+Russia v china.

    Not a bad strat, but I don't like Russia.

    The "hacks" irk me because they make America look weak.
  19. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    The "hacks" irk me because they make America look weak.
    I don't think this is a coincidence on the part of those spreading the narrative. Tons (most?) representatives of America don't seem to like America that much.
  20. #170
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    Hacks? The word you're looking for is "leaks".
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  21. #171
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    Soo, now that Trump admitted that the hack (yes hack, as in a spearfish attack to DNC personnel to access the systems, not an insider leak) was done by Russians, as well as an attempted to hack of the RNC, please spin this for me. Aaand ACTION.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

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  22. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Soo, now that Trump admitted that the hack (yes hack, as in a spearfish attack to DNC personnel to access the systems, not an insider leak) was done by Russians, as well as an attempted to hack of the RNC, please spin this for me. Aaand ACTION.
    I never doubted the Intel because of anything Trump said. I doubted it because of their track record of being experts in propaganda.

    Therefore, Trump changing his stated opinion has no influence on my opinion. Still a skeptic.
  23. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Soo, now that Trump admitted that the hack (yes hack, as in a spearfish attack to DNC personnel to access the systems, not an insider leak) was done by Russians, as well as an attempted to hack of the RNC, please spin this for me. Aaand ACTION.
    Show me.

    Also, is "spin" really what you think I do?
  24. #174
    I'm pretty sure I found what you're referring to: in the press conference, he says "as far as hacking, I think it was Russian....and many others....hacking..."

    This is basically Trump saying that they don't know who did it. Which is what people who know things about how easy and common it is to hide your tracks when hacking say should be expected.
  25. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I'm pretty sure I found what you're referring to: in the press conference, he says "as far as hacking, I think it was Russian....and many others....hacking..."

    This is basically Trump saying that they don't know who did it. Which is what people who know things about how easy and common it is to hide your tracks when hacking say should be expected.
    You realise hiding your tracks whilst hacking is incredibly hard right?
  26. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Also, is "spin" really what you think I do?
    I'm roughly 66% that it's bona fide rather than intentional.

    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    This is basically Trump saying that they don't know who did it. Which is what people who know things about how easy and common it is to hide your tracks when hacking say should be expected.
    It's him saying he's not disputing the reports by the intelligence community, which state that Russia was behind them. He also said that Russia is not the only country launching various attacks towards the US, which is of course true.

    As ImSavy said, hiding your tracks, especially from someone with the resources of a nation state, is definitely not easy. I'm one of the people who know things about it.
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  27. #177
    Explain.
  28. #178
    CoccoBill's Avatar
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    Which part?
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  29. #179
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    I have to assume it’s this part


    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    As ImSavy said, hiding your tracks, especially from someone with the resources of a nation state, is definitely not easy. I’m one of the people who know things about it.
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

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  30. #180
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    Sometimes, karma manifests itself as a wet bitch allegedly hahahaha

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  31. #181
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    Ok, it's what I get paid for.
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  32. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Ok, it's what I get paid for.
    I think he was looking for a more technical explanation. How do you go about tracing a hacker?
  33. #183
    I'm looking for description on what precautions the Russian government has to not employ in order for the Russian government to be pinpointed as the hacker. From everything I've read, avoiding tracking during hacking involves well understood technical protocols, and that when people get caught hacking it is typically because they made some really dumb mistakes.

    I'm curious why it seems so hard to find so many hackers except for when the people who hate Trump want to.
  34. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I'm curious why it seems so hard to find so many hackers except for when the people who hate Trump want to.
    Which examples of hackers are you talking about that don't get caught?

    You can make it a pain to find out who did it. So varying degrees of expertise are needed to the point where it very quickly becomes not worth it to find out who did it but that's very different. Like downloading a film illegally you can no doubt make it too much effort to find out it was you and no one really cares all that much. Take some significant money out of banks and I imagine you'd have a hard time getting away with it otherwise why wouldn't people do it?
    Last edited by Savy; 01-13-2017 at 02:58 AM.
  35. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I think he was looking for a more technical explanation. How do you go about tracing a hacker?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I'm looking for description on what precautions the Russian government has to not employ in order for the Russian government to be pinpointed as the hacker. From everything I've read, avoiding tracking during hacking involves well understood technical protocols, and that when people get caught hacking it is typically because they made some really dumb mistakes.
    As you may understand, this is a wildly broad subject, kind of like asking what precautions do bank robbers have to not employ in order to get caught. I don't have data on how the attack was done on a technical level, but I can make a fairly conceivable assumption based on how previous similar hacks have happened, on which we do have more detailed info.

    Everything you do on the net creates a trace of information, traffic and connection logs, packet headers, addresses, digital fingerprints. In this case the breach was apparently done using a spearfishing attack, a targeted and customized attack on the DNC personnel. It could have been for example an email sent to a DNC employee, seemingly coming from a colleague or a trusted contact containing a link or an attachment, that the person is tempted to open. I don't mean a nigerian letter or a viagra ad, possibly a legitimate document that would be perfectly expected to be coming from that person, with an injected malware. This malware, most likely custom made for this purpose and employing possibly unknown 0-day vulnerabilities would infect the machine and give the attackers access to everywhere the target had access.

    This attack would leave trace evidence in the ISP traffic logs, DNC firewalls, routers, mail gateways and possible intrusion detection systems, on their mail server, on the target's workstation, DNS servers and other systems in the network. The malware code very often includes data that can point to the direction of the attacker, such as compiling timestamps, patterns, etc. Even if the code is custom, parts of it is often reused, and can give hints to who wrote it. Any sane attacker of course tries to cover their tracks and uses several proxies/hops in various countries for any connections to the target systems, but doing all of it without leaving any trackable evidence is tedious and complicated. Hackers are human, they make mistakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I'm curious why it seems so hard to find so many hackers except for when the people who hate Trump want to.
    It is hard, and it takes a lot of resources, which are better used for investigating high-level acts of espionage rather than some kid stealing nudies from celebrity iphones.
    Last edited by CoccoBill; 01-13-2017 at 07:02 AM.
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  36. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I'm looking for description on what precautions the Russian government has to not employ in order for the Russian government to be pinpointed as the hacker. From everything I've read, avoiding tracking during hacking involves well understood technical protocols, and that when people get caught hacking it is typically because they made some really dumb mistakes.

    I'm curious why it seems so hard to find so many hackers except for when the people who hate Trump want to.
    Itwasfo
    und out that stuxnet was nation sponsored by the US and Israel against Iran, and this was in the pre-Troll Doll days.

    Individuals looking for people who downloaded their torrents can be hard. A whole nation, with the resources of the NSA and people like Snowden looking for you, you can bet your ass they will find you no matter how hard you cover your tracks and how deep you hide in the darknet

    Why do you make the narrative only about his Trumpness?
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  37. #187
    Thanks for the info guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    Why do you make the narrative only about his Trumpness?
    It doesn't have to be, but we've certainly grown weary of it due to all the fake news stories that try to take him down. Like the one that happened a few days ago: pissgate. The media pushed a "story" that they even admitted at the time could be wrong.


    On the Russia thing, assuming it is Russia (which it may well be), does this justify the main ideas the media has thrown around? No. They're still wrong that the election was tampered with, they're still wrong that this means something nefarious regarding Putin and Trump, and they're still wrong that the problem is the whistleblower instead of the shady actors revealed by the whistleblower. The real stories about evidence that Russia hacked the DNC are (1) what does this mean about Russia's intentions regarding the Dems/Clinton and the GOP/Trump (this is different than assuming it's nefarious between Putin/Trump), (2) what does this mean regarding the state of state-level cyber security, and (3) wow look at all this horrible shit done by the DNC and Clinton and the media. But no, Fake News set aside pursuit of reason and truth and instead pushed the narrative that would best de-legitimize Trump.
  38. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    Which examples of hackers are you talking about that don't get caught?
    I just google around and see that it seems the conventional wisdom is that there are hackers that utilize standard technical protocols, and the ones that get caught typically end up doing something like boasting on social media.
  39. #189
    Question: I think it is reasonable to assume the Russian government would use proxies and other related tools. Let's say they hack from Secret KGB Headquarters Beneath Putin's House, jumping through proxy in Ukraine, Afghanistan, and Thailand. Is this typically traceable back to Secret KGB Headquarters Beneath Putin's House?

    Second Question: When the US government "determines" that a hack came from the Russian state, are they really finding that the source of the hack originated from a known government potential-hacking building or is the origin really just located somewhere within Russia's borders?
  40. #190
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    You guys still using the word "hack" instead of "leak"?

    #wikihacks
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  41. #191
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    Inb4 republicans swiftly impeach trump, so they can have pence.
  42. #192
    I would lol. I can think of a reason they wouldn't do that (most of them would not be reelected).
  43. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    Inb4 republicans swiftly impeach trump, so they can have pence.
    This.
  44. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I would lol. I can think of a reason they wouldn't do that (most of them would not be reelected).
    Untrue. Most of them are untouchable and the Republicans have developed some amazing voter suppression and redistricting skills. Once they have enough dirt on him there won't be too many people that will be able to argue against impeachment.
  45. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I just google around and see that it seems the conventional wisdom is that there are hackers that utilize standard technical protocols, and the ones that get caught typically end up doing something like boasting on social media.
    Very much depends on what they are doing. It is very easy to make it a pain to track you to the point places like local police have no chance so I imagine that most people who get in shit tor stuff do give themselves away but that doesn't back up what you said.

    It is best to think of it as hiding. You can hide really well but you are still always there.
    Last edited by Savy; 01-14-2017 at 01:34 AM.
  46. #196
    Lol did anyone see the pile of 'documents' Trump brought to his press conference? Just a bunch of unlabeled folders full of apparently blank papers.

    Another funny thing was how he brought his own cheering section. I'm thinking 'why is the press cheering for him?'.

    Refusing to answer the reporter from CNN was pretty funny too.

    The guy is such a farce...no way he lasts four years.
  47. #197
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    Wow, just wow....hack this and hack that.....standard for the msm and "intelligence" conglomerate. repeat a lie so many times that the american sheeple begin to believe it...ala, the gulf of tonkin incident or/and wmd in Iraq.

    Has no one who reads this thread read or watched the interview with Jullian Assange in which he categorically denied any Russian involvement, stating that the hacks were actually leaks from DNC insiders?

    sheeze.....smfh

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  48. #198
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    Oh hi shotty, glad I'm not the only person who prefers to talk about leaks instead of hacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  49. #199
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    I didn't see the Assange interview, I read the blog of one of his friends, former British ambassador Craig Murray. He's "former" because he resigned on principle many years ago. Or he got sacked by the Home Secretary for being a man of principle, whichever way you prefer to look at it. The British government don't like their ambassadors to oppose the use of torture.

    Anyway, he is close friends with Assange. It's thanks to Murray that I even give Assange any credit.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  50. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I didn't see the Assange interview, I read the blog of one of his friends, former British ambassador Craig Murray. He's "former" because he resigned on principle many years ago. Or he got sacked by the Home Secretary for being a man of principle, whichever way you prefer to look at it. The British government don't like their ambassadors to oppose the use of torture.

    Anyway, he is close friends with Assange. It's thanks to Murray that I even give Assange any credit.
    Yeah, Assange is often just a twatwaffle who has ABSOLUtelY no love for the US gubmint

    Hay, Ong...would you mind pm'ing me the url of Murray's blog? Probly makes for a good read

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  51. #201
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    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

    Third and fourth entires down are posts about Wikileaks.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  52. #202
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    He waffles a lot about Scottish indepedance, which I tend to ignore, but he is Scottish so fair enough!
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  53. #203
    Does Assange have some claim to be a perfectly reliable source of information? I'm just curious as to why I should believe everything he says.

    For all we know he's working for someone else who has a vested interest in fucking with our heads. Same goes for this Murray guy.

    Face it, we'll never know any of this for sure. All we'll know are the various narratives we hear about, probably none of which are true.
  54. #204
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    It's a question of who you wish to put your trust in. I might come across as a skeptic, but I'm not that paranoid that I refuse to trust anyone. Now, when it comes to Assange, well who the fuck was he before Wikileaks? What has he done to gain my trust? Fuck all. He could be in this for the fame and money for all I know. But Murray, well this is a man who blew a career in politics. He's not in it for the fame and money, because he's not very famous, and he already had a well paid job with huge prospects. He blew that to expose the British government. He has earned my trust.

    If you wish to put your trust in career politicians rather than those who put their neck on the block to expose lies and corruption, that's your call.

    Can I be certain that Murray is the real deal? Of course not, I haven't met him. But I prefer to trust him over the British government.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  55. #205
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    Does Assange have some claim to be a perfectly reliable source of information? I'm just curious as to why I should believe everything he says.
    Have wikileaks been proven to be wrong yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  56. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Have wikileaks been proven to be wrong yet?
    How would that ever be possible?
  57. #207
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    It's worth pointing out that British ambassadors get some serious perks. The one which Craig claims keeps a lot of his former collegaues quiet is that the British Govt pay the provate school fees of their kids. That's quite a perk, if you understand how British politics works. It's very difficult to have a high profile career in politics here if you didn't go to the right school.

    Murray has to sell books and give talks to make ends meet.
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  58. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    How would that ever be possible?
    Um... I dunno, perhaps by getting successfuly sued?
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  59. #209
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    Imo there isn't much question if they were hacks or leaks. There were two intrusions to the DNC servers... an intrusion is a hack yeah? Someone in there that isn't supposed to be?

    The question is who the hackers are. If it's at all plausible that it's from an outside country then all avenues of investigation should be explored. I guess that's true even if it came from within the DNC. But whether the intrusions came from inside or outside the DNC they are still hacks.

    I don't really think those hacks played a key roll in the election though. I think the Russians played a key roll and definitely meddled with the purpose of getting Trump elected but that was more through using professional trolls on social media than hacking.
  60. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Um... I dunno, perhaps by getting successfuly sued?
    You have to have proof to sue someone. How do you prove leaked docs are false? Because they don't say 'this is real' on them?
  61. #211
    Here's a theory (just a theory): Assange is a stooge of a foreign power trying to undermine the West. Could be China, Russia, N. Korea, Iran -they all hate us. His job is to create a whistleblower persona and 'leak' phony docs that make our gov'ts look bad. Our side can't just say 'that's fake' because no-one will believe us and there's no way to prove it anyways.

    Again, just a theory. For all I know he could be legit and either way it doesn't change the fact that our rulers are assholes. It's just interesting to ponder who 'wins' when our gov't gets publicly shamed.

    And it's not like ambassadors aren't prime targets for espionage. So, how do you know Murray is living hand-to-mouth? 'Cause he says so in his blog?
  62. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by supa View Post
    Trump elected but that was more through using professional trolls on social media than hacking.
    Do you have the evidence for this?
  63. #213
    As per paid shilling, the only one I know about is CTR (Correct the Record). Democrat shills.

    If Russian Trump shills exist, they would be on r/The_Donald or /pol/. Go ahead and trust me that is not remotely close to a significant part of The_Donald. Unless you think Russian pleb-wage workers have superior memeology and memetics than the rest of the world.

    Never forget that the US mainstream media is the most sophisticated propaganda machine in world history.
  64. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Do you have the evidence for this?
    Originally I saw it on one of those "fake news" shows. Actual Russians saying they were paid for doing this and went into pretty good detail. Evidence is tricky because it's hard to know what to believe anymore. I can try to scrounge some stuff up but it would be on the observer to decide whether or not it's evidence. I'm pretty satisfied with there being a good amount of truth to it.

    Really it makes sense knowing the facts we have and how gullible people are on social media. Even if it wasn't russia social media was a huge catalyst in trump winning. Definitely not as big as mainstream media and we can't take away the fact that the dems ran a horrible campaign.
  65. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Shotglass View Post
    Has no one who reads this thread read or watched the interview with Jullian Assange in which he categorically denied any Russian involvement, stating that the hacks were actually leaks from DNC insiders?
    I saw it back when he gave the interview. It's worth noting, but Assange doesn't exactly have credibility on this. I like the guy and I love Wikileaks, but we would need third party corroboration when it comes to statements made by Assange. Let me put it this way, if I were him and if it were the Russians, I would say it's not the Russians.

    This goes for Guccifer 2.0, who yesterday claimed that he did the hack (IIRC). Okay, cool, but still he doesn't have enough credibility for us to believe him with certainty.

    I also recall Obama giving a possible Freudian slip when he called them leaks in a press conference.

    Regardless, I don't really have a position on this because it doesn't change anything where they came from. Like I stated earlier, all the claims Fake News is making about how this is bad for Trump are not true regardless of whether or not Russia did it. It's just a smear campaign and obfuscation from their own foul play.
  66. #216
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    This is a petty good read although again it's hardly proof.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...6bWtFIv_CPeL-w
  67. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by supa View Post
    Originally I saw it on one of those "fake news" shows. Actual Russians saying they were paid for doing this and went into pretty good detail. Evidence is tricky because it's hard to know what to believe anymore. I can try to scrounge some stuff up but it would be on the observer to decide whether or not it's evidence. I'm pretty satisfied with there being a good amount of truth to it.

    Really it makes sense knowing the facts we have and how gullible people are on social media. Even if it wasn't russia social media was a huge catalyst in trump winning. Definitely not as big as mainstream media and we can't take away the fact that the dems ran a horrible campaign.
    When they talk about social media shills for Trump, when they talk about all the alt-right stuff, they're basically talking about r/The_Donald, /pol/, and Breitbart (and InfoWars). My experience on those is that the claim is lol. It's all just a bunch of shitposting and the occasional very important news that is being censored everywhere else (like when the Orlando club terrorist attack happened). As for the conspiracy part, there is a decent amount of that (thanks Alex Jones), but it really doesn't go anywhere. People not deeply embedded in the pro-Trump circles tend to not see it.

    BTW CTR loves mucking those places up. The_Donald is vastly more popular on reddit than it appears just by going on reddit, but the administrators actively suppress it and CTR does as well. And yet The_Donald still kicks their butts. It's because of the meme magic. Even the most ardent hater of Trump, if he spends a decent amount of time on The_Donald, will soften a lot. Shitposting can be hilariously fun. Plus there's a section of real news people get there that is wholly censored in the mainstream.
  68. #218
    The real story of the week is that fake intel dossier. In fact, that's one of the biggest stories in years. It's so bad that CNN and others should be in the process of bankruptcy by now. But they're not, you know, because their propaganda is so incredibly strong that most don't know about their lie and most who do view it with cognitive dissonance.

    Oh well. Maybe the next time the entire mainstream media runs with a false story about the nation's leader that is shown to be false within hours people will realize they're being had.
  69. #219
  70. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    So, how do you know Murray is living hand-to-mouth? 'Cause he says so in his blog?
    Indirectly, yeah. You haven't seen how much he's plugging his book.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  71. #221
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    If you think the life of a whistleblower and bloggist is somehow more profitable than the life of an ambassador, then perhaps I can see where you're coming from.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  72. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by supa View Post
    Imo there isn't much question if they were hacks or leaks. There were two intrusions to the DNC servers... an intrusion is a hack yeah? Someone in there that isn't supposed to be?
    I would have thought it was a question of access. Someone who has access to state secrets, and shares them is leaking. Someone who doesn't have access and gains it is hacking. But that's just the way I see it, I didn't get the dictionary out.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  73. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I would have thought it was a question of access. Someone who has access to state secrets, and shares them is leaking. Someone who doesn't have access and gains it is hacking. But that's just the way I see it, I didn't get the dictionary out.
    I think access is exactly the term in question and from what I understand if it did come from inside the DNC it was done by someone without access. Again, there were two separate "intrusions" implying that someone who was not supposed to be in there was.
  74. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    The real story of the week is that fake intel dossier. In fact, that's one of the biggest stories in years. It's so bad that CNN and others should be in the process of bankruptcy by now. But they're not, you know, because their propaganda is so incredibly strong that most don't know about their lie and most who do view it with cognitive dissonance.

    Oh well. Maybe the next time the entire mainstream media runs with a false story about the nation's leader that is shown to be false within hours people will realize they're being had.
    Two questions,

    Has the dossier actually been proven to be false? If so I've missed something.

    What do you consider real news?
  75. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Here's a theory (just a theory): Assange is a stooge of a foreign power trying to undermine the West. Could be China, Russia, N. Korea, Iran -they all hate us. His job is to create a whistleblower persona and 'leak' phony docs that make our gov'ts look bad. Our side can't just say 'that's fake' because no-one will believe us and there's no way to prove it anyways.

    Again, just a theory. For all I know he could be legit and either way it doesn't change the fact that our rulers are assholes. It's just interesting to ponder who 'wins' when our gov't gets publicly shamed.

    And it's not like ambassadors aren't prime targets for espionage. So, how do you know Murray is living hand-to-mouth? 'Cause he says so in his blog?
    That'd be a helluva lotta fakery.

    Quote Originally Posted by supa View Post
    Two questions,

    Has the dossier actually been proven to be false? If so I've missed something.

    What do you consider real news?
    I don't think it's actually been proven false...more like unable to be substantiated. Kinda dif to prove a negative. IMO, it's really sayin something if the clinton news network won't run with it.

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